Statler

[mn_body_detroit_hrt]

New Question, I have heard tell that there was a fire in the area recently, did that have any effect on the demo? Any new pictures? Any articles that pertain to the actuall demo of the building itself, I have been checking in the Freep and the Detroit Press for months and havent seen anything since March. Thanks

[baldy]

It's being tore down, all be it more gracefully than the madison lennox, so there is no chance of it being saved. There is a thread that has been documenting the demise of the Statler, and that is where people have been posting updates.

[mn_body_detroit_hrt]

Thanks, I will go and search that out...I had thought that there was an injuction preventing the demo pending some appeal...well I will go look on the other thread...thanks again.

[Allan]

The Statler Demolition Thread can be found here:

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=8891

It is in need of some more recent photos. I took some on Saturday which I will post later tonight. The demolition is much further along now.

[mn_body_detroit_hrt]

I just went to the thread and am about to cry...that building has been something I have been advocating people get involved in saving here in Minnesota for at least a year...that is a wonderful piece of history being lost and a very sad statment for the city...so much for city beautiful...that would have made a great mixed use artist co-op, prime location, now with that missing I have to wonder what is going to go down in the area next.

[Zissou]

I hope there is a developer lined up like Kwame and company have claimed. That is a prime location and should play a big part in the Grand Circus area revitalization. Im also hoping that someone will develope the lot northwest of it right on the park as well. That area has so much potential and it would be a shame if it just turned into a surface parking lot for any extended period of time.

[mn_body_detroit_hrt]

couldnt agree with you more....I know this may be a naive question, but is it really as related to the superbowl as it has been made out to be?

[Allan]

Kwame never claimed that there was a developer lined up. In fact, the DDA has said that they are not even going to market the site to developers until after the Statler is demolished.

Word on the street has it that city council wants the Statler site to become one of two things:

1) A new arena for the Red Wings

2) A parking garage, since the west half of the Grand Circus Garage is leased out to residential tenants in the Kales, and the east half is going to be leased out to the Broderick tenants.

We'll see if either of those two pan out. I'm hoping that we get a midrise residential tower, but something tells me that we won't.

[Allan]

mn_body_detroit_hrt,

I do believe that the only reason the Statler is being demolished is because of the Super Bowl. If the city had its way, every single abandoned building downtown would be demolished by next February. Fortunately the city doesn't have the time or money to embark on such a venture.

[Zissou]

I thought that Kwame was saying he was getting a lot of interest in the site. I could be mistaken though. A parking garage would be absolutely crap. I hope they dont put one in such a good location for a residential project. I dont think a new Red Wings arena would fit on that site. At least not one with all of the amentities that Illitch would want. That would be a very interesting spot for an arena though.

[mn_body_detroit_hrt]

This is news to me today, I have been pouring over the newspapers and have been asking friends in the area about it and havent been updated. To see those pictures is like a strike to the heart. Yet another empty space for the city and for what? I cant belive that they have no plans, no nothing, why take it down??? Someone was saying that they would have had to go in and essentially rebuild all the floors and whatnot...but wasnt the building just judged structurally sound a few years ago...and all the contaminants removed....sorry, I am just venting...frustrated...I can only imagine the veiw from Comerica now....

[Allan]

Kwame says a lot, it's just that he doesn't mean a lot of it. Kwame isn't exactly the most trustworthy person. Keep in mind that Ilitch owns the United Artists Building and the Tuller Lot across the street. Close off Bagley Avenue, and you have a large two block area in which to build. I hope it doesn't happen, but it wouldn't surprise me. Ilitch has gotten hand outs from the city before, and I'm sure it will happen again.

In my mind, the Statler and Tuller sites demand 15 story towers. Unfortunately, we will never again see the density that once existed there.

[Zissou]

I agree that those lots would best be suited for 15-20 story towers. I cant lie, an arena there does intrigue me. An arena is in the realm of possiblity within the next five years. I dont know if residential towers would be in demand for that area within the same time frame. Maybe its because im a sports nut but I think an arena interacting with Grand Circus park would be a very cool thing. The arena could also spur much more spin off development than its JLA predecessor. The more i think about it the more likely i think an arena could go up on those two lots. A portion of a road and the people mover are all that stand in the way of that.

[rbdetsport]

I would love to see an underground parking garage because it seems as if there is a higher demand for buildings over a parking garage. I think a 25 story building there would be good. It wouldn't be to out of place because right downt the street is the Broderick and many other buildings are around. I wouldn't say that there will never be the density there that there used to be. If the city hits a big boom like it did in the early 1900s the density would come. I believe that we are at the lowest point right now. Everything from here on out for the next maybe 12 years is going uphill. The city is already coming back with many shops coming in and I am keeping my hopes up that Kwame is right about the high interest in the site. But I highly doubt that we will see anything go up there for awhile.

[mn_body_detroit_hrt]

The part that bothers me the most is that even if a new developer came in and put up a tower, there is no way that it would have the charm, history or beauty that the statler had. People dont build like that anymore. That entire area looked to me like a prime location for a historic part of the city...with the Book being (maybe) renovated, the Kales redone and talk of revamping the Brod. tower...it was an exciting aspect for me...even here in MN...I can understand not wanting a repeat of the "awnings" situation when the superbowl comes but to have the signs of active reinvestment and restoration happening is way better then having a city full of blank lots. Is there any talk in the wind for what IS going to happen to the UA??? I havent heard anything on that...but it would make sence for ilitch...ish.

[wolverine]

The problem is, there is absolutely no demand for an arena in Detroit right now. Prepare to have an abandoned Joe Louis. Sorry, but arenas don't make density. And I can guranatee you an arena on that site will NOT improve conditions downtown except cover up to holes in the ground. Also remember that if the arena is built, the United Artists will have to be demolished, parking in GCP will be strained, and we will have to build more ramps while the current ones over near the Joe Louis will be unused.

There are just too many negative points, Detroit cannot build another Hockey arena.

[Zissou]

Was there demand for Ford Field? The demand is from Illitch. JLA is a hole compared to other newer facilities. Allan said that GCP parking will be designated for the Kales and Broderick buildings. I think a new arena would have the same effect that CoPa and Ford Field have had. And im assuming that Illitch will tear down UA and the city will support him in that. JLA could then be demolished and part of an expanded Cobo. This is just speculation and me connecting the dots. A new arena could add foot traffic to the area and possible retail if designed like Ford Field.

[mn_body_detroit_hrt]

I personally think that the last thing needed right there is a stadium...there are already two of them in pretty close proxemity. Why not try and add foot traffic by adding something that people could do before and after the games...put moderatly affordable housing on top, parking underground and everyone will be happy...foot traffic, redevelopment, mid rage priced apartments...I guess that someone has to take an interest first...Have you lost all hope that the UA will be saved???

[Allan]

I don't particularly like the idea of closing off Bagley right by the park. It would obliterate more of Judge Woodward's plan of Detroit. For a new hockey area downtown, the area bounded by Cass, Elizabeth, Montcalm, and Park would be best. The area is almost all Ilitch-owned parking lots. The Ilitches really fought the owner of the Iodent Building before the renovation began, probably because they were planning on putting a new hockey arena there. I do recall that a few months back Marian Ilitch inquired about putting a new hockey arena on the site of Tiger Stadium, but I haven't heard anything since then.

As much as I love the United Artists Building, I would be lying if I told you that I didn't think it would be demolished. Having explored the UA twice in the last few months, I can tell you that the theater is totally unsalvageable. The roof has massive holes, and the water just pours in. The remaining plaster ornamentation is pretty much destroyed. The office block is still in remarkably good condition. But I have a feeling that if the theater is demolished, the rest of the building is coming down with it. And unlike the Statler and the M-L, the UA lies outside of a historic district, so there is no way to stop the Ilitches from demolishing it.

[mn_body_detroit_hrt]

  It  And unlike the Statler and the M-L, the UA lies outside of a historic district, so there is no way to stop the Ilitches from demolishing it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where exactly does the historic district start and end...?

[wolverine]

I mentioned a few days ago that I think the the theater in the back should be demolished, and a parking garage built in the site. I have talked to several people who have explored the building and said that they don't believe it is structurally significant to the tower (like Michigan theater). Allan said that almost all the ornamentation is gone, and if anyone has seen the back of the UA theater, is nothing beautiful. Just rip that off the back and put up a garage to serve a beautiful office tower. That way, it can remain competitive in the market.

As far as arenas, I will say it again that there is no demand. You mention Ford Field, but the Lions were never downtown, they were way out in the suburbs near the Pistons. But with the Redwings, they are already downtown. What would be the point in moving them 5-7 blacks northward? People are still going to eat and shop at the same places downtown like they always have. A new arena won't effect the city economically at all.

If the Pistons want to move back downtown... well, that's a different story. Another team means more people. However, I feel the Pistons are fine where they are. It's called regional cooperation. Detroit can't take it all, it needs to earn some its success itself. That comes through new commercial and residential development, which would fit perfectly on the Statler and Tuller sites.

[Zissou]

Now I would prefer to see two 15-20 story residential towers there. That is my first choice. The idea of a stadium though is intrigueing to me. Wolverine I think you misjudge the economic benefits of a new JLA. That area is a relatively dead part of downtown. The extra foot traffic there and proximity to the park would help the area. New urban stadiums are more geared towards foot traffic and function. It wouldnt be just a giant grey box like the current arena. It would blend into the urban fabric of Detroit and would most likely include retail and other things that would attract people to it year round like what Ford Field is doing. Ill say it again though, this would not be my first choice.

[Allan]

While there would be some economic benefits to a new JLA, I feel that there would be more benefit to putting apartments with ground floor retail there. If you get 150 people living in the Broderick and another 150 in a midrise tower, now you've got a decent residential district going and the potential for new ground floor retail. Not to mention the Kales & Fyfe Buildings across the park. A new JLA will add foot traffic, but only on event days.

A new JLA would spur new development, but only to a certain extent. The economic impact of having Ford Field & Comerica Park right next to each other downtown has been less than expected. Just take a look at the Women's Exchange Building on Grand Circus Park. You'd think developers would be scrambling to get that building, since it is such a prime location right next to Comerica. But the fact is that they aren't. The same goes for the Post Bar project. The owner has been trying to sell it for some time now, but hasn't had any takers.

New bars may very well open up near a new JLA, but the ones by the old arena will suffer, and some will close.

[Zissou]

I think both ideas would help the area but residential buildings would definitely help more. I hate the current JLA location. It is so isolated from everything else. Illitch will most likely start construction on a new arena. If we are lucky it will be on some empty surface parking lots behind the Fox and Grand Circus will get some more residential buildings. Illitch is losing too much money by not having modern amenities and luxury suites, and we all know how much the man loves his money. I expect a new within 5 years, well if they are playing hockey by than.

[wolverine]

I guess I just don't want Detroit to turn into a city of arenas. I want a city with office and residential towers and midrises. The things that keep a city vibrant everydody. For example, like every other major city in the world except us.