Camperdown (Greenville News Building Site)

[gman430]

That "archway entry" concept is especially atrocious and serves as yet another indication that the designers of this development have little understanding about genuinely attractive (not gimmicky) architectural design. How many random, tilted poles protruding awkwardly from the ground with silly (not serious) "shade" elements dangling overhead does a small city need? This is the type of shallow design element that says, "we act on whims because we lack clear vision. Da*n the past, da*n the future."

Overreaction much???

[gvegascple]

That area behind the site, bordered by Church, Broad, and Camperdown is the next big thing in Greenville in my opinion.  I am surprised it has taken this long to be developed.  This project will be the linch pin that will spur other projects over there.  There is a LOT that could be built over there.  It is sooo freaking close to the falls and everything else and FINALLY could be an area other than the straight line/main st that has retail/restaurants etc on.   I think a component of the design going on here needs to have elements that can be borrowed, built upon, and pulled into other development to make the area feel more cohesive when that development does happen.  

[Spes]

Overreaction much???

I'll agree that it's not exactly architecturally inspired, but some people won't be happy unless they see everything in columns and granite or cutting edge glass. Except the developers don't have any obligation to pay for that... so... If you want it world class, do it yourself

[goodbye]

I'm not necessarily sold on it, but I don't think it's fair to say that tensile structure "art" in the plaza is "shallow" simply because they lacked the ability to design this type of structure in Colonial times.

Who said anything about Colonial architecture? Tensile structures can and often do look nice, but this idea that Greenville needs more randomly tilted straight poles with silly "shade" elements dangling overhead is worthy of ridicule. It does appear that these designers simply don't know how to fill the bland, empty space they created with attractive elements that will leave a lasting impression (longer than a few minutes), so they borrowed a weak form of "art" from other places in downtown.

[Spes]

That area behind the site, bordered by Church, Broad, and Camperdown is the next big thing in Greenville in my opinion.

About 75% of it is also owned by 3 LLCs. Good sign. 

[goodbye]

That area behind the site, bordered by Church, Broad, and Camperdown is the next big thing in Greenville in my opinion. I am surprised it has taken this long to be developed. This project will be the linch pin that will spur other projects over there. There is a LOT that could be built over there. It is sooo freaking close to the falls and everything else and FINALLY could be an area other than the straight line/main st that has retail/restaurants etc on. I think a component of the design going on here needs to have elements that can be borrowed, built upon, and pulled into other development to make the area feel more cohesive when that development does happen.

I would be pleased to see the hotel positioned at or very near the corner of Broad and Falls, and at least partially facing away from Main Street. The current "driveway" concept seems like an afterthought that cuts deeply into the footprint of the development and wastes prime real estate with significant sidewalk frontage. The Main Street-level frontage should be used for retail space with office and/or residential space above.

[goodbye]

I'll agree that it's not exactly architecturally inspired, but some people won't be happy unless they see everything in columns and granite or cutting edge glass. Except the developers don't have any obligation to pay for that... so... If you want it world class, do it yourself

If you want world class, then encourage higher standards. I would be much less vocal if this development were in a less important location and did not include significant public space. An example of bland design that I am less vocal about is the proposed EP headquarters expansion.

[distortedlogic]

That area behind the site, bordered by Church, Broad, and Camperdown is the next big thing in Greenville in my opinion.  I am surprised it has taken this long to be developed.  This project will be the linch pin that will spur other projects over there.  There is a LOT that could be built over there.  It is sooo freaking close to the falls and everything else and FINALLY could be an area other than the straight line/main st that has retail/restaurants etc on.   I think a component of the design going on here needs to have elements that can be borrowed, built upon, and pulled into other development to make the area feel more cohesive when that development does happen.  

Excellent post! This development is not an island that need be only complimentary to itself. It should be planned with the expectation that development will follow all around it and it will need to be functional with (and pave the way for) those projects as well. 

[distortedlogic]

I would be pleased to see the hotel positioned at or very near the corner of Broad and Falls, and at least partially facing away from Main Street. The current "driveway" concept seems like an afterthought that cuts deeply into the footprint of the development and wastes prime real estate with significant sidewalk frontage. The Main Street-level frontage should be used for retail space with office and/or residential space above.

What about instead of every building having it's own footprint, what if a "U" shaped base were constructed with each phase having a separate "tower" built on top for their purpose. The Hotel "tower" would build on one section, the office space on another, the condo/appts on another, etc. Retail and Restaurant could be set up to face both the plaza and the opposite street sides. The open section of the U could open out to the intersection of Main and Broad, and on the other corners of the city block, entrance ways could be facilitated by pedestrian arches or something (built directly into the U building itself) so people would have access, but the continuity of the building would still be intact. The the plaza could be filled with art, interactive attractions, water, seating areas, gardens, whatever. Just trying to think outside the "box" here.  

[NBNY2GRNVL]

I understand the want for a top notch development but you know what I really want? To watch the star wars trilogy with a beer in my hand and awesome food available in a state of the art theater and be within walking distance of my house and a bunch of great bars when I leave.

[distortedlogic]

That sort of thing only happened a long, long time ago, in galaxies far, far away. I'll see your Star Wars Trilogy and raise you an Indiana Jones Trilogy!   Only problem is, all that drinkin', you probably won't remember it anyways! 

[B&R]

What about instead of every building having it's own footprint, what if a "U" shaped base were constructed with each phase having a separate "tower" built on top for their purpose. The Hotel "tower" would build on one section, the office space on another, the condo/appts on another, etc. Retail and Restaurant could be set up to face both the plaza and the opposite street sides. The open section of the U could open out to the intersection of Main and Broad, and on the other corners of the city block, entrance ways could be facilitated by pedestrian arches or something (built directly into the U building itself) so people would have access, but the continuity of the building would still be intact. The the plaza could be filled with art, interactive attractions, water, seating areas, gardens, whatever. Just trying to think outside the "box" here.  

 

 

That could work, as long as there are entrances on all sides or corners.

 

My main concern with the initial design is that it is too oriented to the central plaza and not enough towards the surrounding streets.   It struck me as more of a  generic suburban office park design than a specific fit for the property.   Some kind of a plaza/walkway is fine for the center of the property but I hope the final design is oriented more outwards towards  the surrounding streets than  inwards on itself.

[apaladin]

Beer has it's place but IMHO it's not a movie theatre, simply because you will have people abuse it and then they become obnoxious.

[Spes]

Beer has it's place but IMHO it's not a movie theatre, simply because you will have people abuse it and then they become obnoxious.

Been to several theaters in Columbia and Charleston where beer, wine, and sometimes liquor are available, and never once saw a problem with disorderly conduct. It's a different dynamic than, say, a bar or a baseball game, where the beer is cheap(er) and people keep getting more. Prices are inflated, movie keeps you in your seats, service is slower where there's a waitstaff. 

[Greenville]

Been to several theaters in Columbia and Charleston where beer, wine, and sometimes liquor are available, and never once saw a problem with disorderly conduct. It's a different dynamic than, say, a bar or a baseball game, where the beer is cheap(er) and people keep getting more. Prices are inflated, movie keeps you in your seats, service is slower where there's a waitstaff. 

 

Agreed. I think it would work really well. And hopefully it would be great sound/picture quality as well rather than just a run-of-the-mill theater that happens to serve food and drinks.

[mallguy]

I don't care what the movie theater serves as long as it's a "nicer" movie theater; I don't want the trailer park crowd taking over downtown and running the rest of us away. 

 

I have concerns about movie theaters in general, though: movie theaters have low sales per square foot and are generally a declining industry, with dropping attendance recently.  I'd prefer a large destination retailer or anchor, like a Cheesecake Factory or a Target, or even a Saks Off Fifth or an H&M. 

Edited July 11, 2015 by mallguy

[Greenville]

I don't care what the movie theater serves as long as it's a "nicer" movie theater; I don't want the trailer park crowd taking over downtown and running the rest of us away. 

 

I have concerns about movie theaters in general, though: movie theaters have low sales per square foot and are generally a declining industry, with dropping attendance recently.  I'd prefer a large destination retailer or anchor, like a Cheesecake Factory or a Target, or even a Saks Off Fifth or an H&M. 

 

I feel the same way. I wonder if movie theaters - even innovative ones which have servers and also make alcohol available - will continue to see a decline in attendance since it is now so easy to watch a movie at home in HD on Netflix, on demand, pay-per-view, etc.?

[motonenterprises]

I feel the same way. I wonder if movie theaters - even innovative ones which have servers and also make alcohol available - will continue to see a decline in attendance since it is now so easy to watch a movie at home in HD on Netflix, on demand, pay-per-view, etc.?

Not new movies. Netflix gets stuff late if at all. Later than pay per view, and even they have to wait until it's out of theaters. There are ways to get new movies though. I enjoy going to the movies every now and then for the experience. Is it declining? I don't know. Every time I go to the one here in Simpsonville it's crowded or has a good crowd. They do serve alcohol there. No problems.

[gman430]

I don't care what the movie theater serves as long as it's a "nicer" movie theater; I don't want the trailer park crowd taking over downtown and running the rest of us away.

I have concerns about movie theaters in general, though: movie theaters have low sales per square foot and are generally a declining industry, with dropping attendance recently. I'd prefer a large destination retailer or anchor, like a Cheesecake Factory or a Target, or even a Saks Off Fifth or an H&M.

Declining industry? I guess you didn't see how well Furious 7 and Jurassic World did at the box office. Can't forget about the current or upcoming big hits like Minions, Batman vs Superman, and Star Wars also.

Edited July 11, 2015 by gman430

[NBNY2GRNVL]

Shoot I gotta see my Minions! Goin tomorrow in fact.

[mallguy]

Declining industry? I guess you didn't see how well Furious 7 and Jurassic World did at the box office. Can't forget about the current or upcoming big hits like Minions, Batman vs Superman, and Star Wars also.

Feel free to use all the anecdotes you want, but facts are facts:

 

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/07/09/ (decline from 2013 to 2014, and most people would pay more to watch a movie at home vs. in a movie theater)

 

Further, from the Motion Picture Industry of America's report referenced in the CNBC article: US/Canada movie theater admissions declined from 1.50 billion in 2004 to 1.34 billion in 2013.

 

It's a general downward trend.

[gman430]

Interesting. 2015 I bet will be bigger than either 2013 or 2014 though.

Edited July 12, 2015 by gman430

[NBNY2GRNVL]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703808704576062040285064856

Well I think that's the whole point of these new theaters. They bring the people in that stopped going right? I think the dine-in theaters are on the rise.

[vicupstate]

nm

Edited July 20, 2015 by vicupstate

[gman430]

There is now a sign on site announcing environmental cleanup with conjunction with DHEC as part of the project.