Camperdown (Greenville News Building Site)

[ausrutherford]

With all the apartments/condos being built downtown, I can't imagine national retailers hurting the local/regional ones. They will all get a healthy slice of the pie. 

[Gville29601]

But should downtown be an equal competitor with suburbia? I wouldn't want to see every suburban chain locate downtown, but I think a few that appeal to a broader population, appropriately scaled, can work. 

 

I generally agree with this statement. I just worry that a large Macy's or Nordstrom could be followed by an urban Target, which could be followed by Cheesecake Factory (or the like), and then other large suburban retail stores all start charging into the downtown area. Greenville then loses some local charm. 

 

For better, or worse, it just depends on who you ask. I am a downtown resident. I know there is vacant space, but I just personally hope they don't put in a Nordstrom, or an urban Target at the news site. I like the current mix of office space, with residential space, and with small retail and local restaurants and bars on Main Street. I think it makes Greenville's downtown a unique place.

 

I personally don't mind traveling out of the downtown neighborhood to go to Target, Macy's, or one of the national food chains on Haywood or Woodruff. I know the big national retailers have every right to set up shop in downtown.  Maybe it will work out for everyone, and I really hope it does. With all this rapid residential development I will readily admit that an urban Target or Trader Joe's would do very well in the 29601 area code. I never see that CVS on Washington empty, and I have heard that the McBee Publix makes more profit per sq. foot than just about any other Publix store. 

[mallguy]

I generally agree with this statement. I just worry that a large Macy's or Nordstrom could be followed by an urban Target, which could be followed by Cheesecake Factory (or the like), and then other large suburban retail stores all start charging into the downtown area. Greenville then loses some local charm. 

 

For better, or worse, it just depends on who you ask. I am a downtown resident. I know there is vacant space, but I just personally hope they don't put in a Nordstrom, or an urban Target at the news site. I like the current mix of office space, with residential space, and with small retail and local restaurants and bars on Main Street. I think it makes Greenville's downtown a unique place.

I'm with you 100% in that downtown Greenville needs to remain "a unique place" with "local charm". If it becomes a clone of Haywood, it could have problems, since Haywood is just larger and has free parking. However, I'm not worried about chains coming in, and I'd welcome them:

First, downtown Greenville had no chains whatsoever (except for maybe Atlanta Bread Company and 1 or 2 others) 15 years ago. Greenville's downtown had "local charm" and was "a unique place" then. Now we've had an influx of chains: even apart from Brooks Brothers, CVS, etc., plenty of stores and restaurants, from Bevello to City Tavern and others, are chains. Greenville's downtown still has "local charm" and is "a unique place".

Second, plenty of downtowns in the NYC metro area, such as Stamford, CT, White Plains, NY, New Canaan, CT and more have slews of "suburban" stores in them. Both Stamford and White Plains have Targets, Macy's, and the like, and White Plains even has a Nordstrom and a Wal-Mart. Both of those cities have plenty of "local charm" and are "unique places". Their architecture, layout and more make them unique, and they have plenty of local stores mixed in with Targets and Macy's.

So downtown remains "a unique place" despite the influx of chains, and even if more come, it will still be "a unique place". Isn't Charleston "a unique place"? It has plenty of chains on King Street.

Edited September 8, 2014 by mallguy

[StrangeCock]

Downtown Greenville had a Chick-fil-a 15 years ago. I still pray for its return.

[mallguy]

Downtown Greenville had a Chick-fil-a 15 years ago. I still pray for its return.

True. Its location was just so bad (if I recall right, its entrance was next to the Landmark Building or whatever it's called parking garage). I'd love to see it return, maybe in a better location.

[gman430]

Conference center?

 

Greenville Mayor Knox White, speculating about what might be part of the development, said he thinks one of the missing pieces downtown is an entertainment option such as a movie theater or bowling alley.

 

White also said the city would be happy to see more "destination retail" along Main Street and would cooperate with Trammell Crow to bring a major corporate office to the property.

 

"That would be a real home run," White said.

 

Asked about talks between Greenville city and county about developing a downtown conference center, White said he could see the proposed meeting facility being part of the Trammell Crow development in conjunction with a "headquarters" hotel that would handle food service.

 

White said he envisions the conference center hosting business and nonprofit association meetings, but not certain kinds of events that take place now at the TD Convention Center such as home and garden shows and car shows.

 

"We have not had any discussions with Trammell Crow, but if they're looking at a hotel, I would think they would want to talk about whether or not that might fit into our thinking about a conference center," White said.

 

 

Source: http://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/money/business/2014/09/05/developer-major-retailers-interested-downtown/15130745/

Edited September 11, 2014 by gman430

[GvilleSC]

It will be really interesting to see what they do with this site. It's great to have a high profile developer behind this.

Edited September 11, 2014 by GvilleSC

[goodbye]

It will be really interesting to see what they do with this site. It's great to have a high profile developer behind this.

I agree. This development presumably will be highly visible from the Liberty Bridge, so it should be iconic in appearance — i.e. NOT a bland cluster of boxes. I hope for classical quality that will remain appealing several decades into the future. I envision an icon that will be incorporated into postcards, paintings, and photographs that represent the city of Greenville in foreign places. This should be an attractive place where visitors can forget the stress of everyday life and create pleasant memories that will last a lifetime and dramatically impact the city's development even generations later.

[greenjoesc]

I agree. Whatever this turns into, it will be the backdrop in a lot of photos taken of the falls. I'm excited to see what will be proposed.

[gman430]

Dine in movie theater.

Glenn and his son, Brody Glenn, a former chairman of the Greenville Planning Commission, said they also envision a hotel with 120 to 150 rooms, an apartment complex with more than 200 units, an office building with 125,000 to 150,000 square feet of space and 100,000 square feet of retail or restaurant space, including an upscale fitness center.

Edited October 20, 2014 by gman430

[GvilleSC]

They better bring their A game on the public plaza. They've got an incredible one to compete with across the street, and others throughout downtown. I think that corner would be best served by a building, which would help further define the public space on the Peace Center campus. Doesn't sound like we will see much height, but it should provide some nice infill with a much higher use than what is existing.

[StrangeCock]

Sure sounds like a lot of stuff. With those specs, and the size of the lot, what kind of height are we looking at?

[motonenterprises]

They better bring their A game on the public plaza. They've got an incredible one to compete with across the street, and others throughout downtown. I think that corner would be best served by a building, which would help further define the public space on the Peace Center campus. Doesn't sound like we will see much height, but it should provide some nice infill with a much higher use than what is existing.

I'm not sure about that. That's quite a bit of stuff in one spot. Don't think Trammel would be a part of something small.

Sure sounds like a lot of stuff. With those specs, and the size of the lot, what kind of height are we looking at?

This is what I would like to know also.

[ausrutherford]

The dine in movie theater is what I had hoped for!

[vicupstate]

Dine in movie theater.

Glenn and his son, Brody Glenn, a former chairman of the Greenville Planning Commission, said they also envision a hotel with 120 to 150 rooms, an apartment complex with more than 200 units, an office building with 125,000 to 150,000 square feet of space and 100,000 square feet of retail or restaurant space, including an upscale fitness center.

 

The print edition of this article says there will be 15-25 condominiums as well. 

[GvilleSC]

And 9 stories?

[gman430]

Honestly, I don't even care about the height. Just the info about what the development might contain has me excited.

Edited October 21, 2014 by gman430

[vicupstate]

And 9 stories?

 

No mention of height, but there is a lot going onto the site.  It sounded as if the public plaza will be of significant size.  Given that, you are really talking about 3 acres or maybe less for 215-250k of office/retail, 150-200 hotel rooms, 200 or more apartments, 15-25 condos, 6-8 movie boxes and a parking garage to handle all that.   

 

Probably not 20 stories, but probably somewhere between 12-20, would be my guess. 

 

The design/architecture and uses are the most important to me as well.   Frankly, considering the rest of our skyline height, anything over 20 stories would probably be too dominant and stick out too much.

[GvilleSC]

The online article says 8-9 story office building, which I'm fine with given the other heights in the River district. Just curious if it was in the print edition.

Edited October 21, 2014 by GvilleSC

[vicupstate]

I don't recall seeing that in the print edition, but I may have missed it.

I see it in the online edition now, but I don't recall seeing that last night.   

[gman430]

My G-News contact says office building will be 8-9 stories which will put it around the same height as the ONE buildings.

Edited October 21, 2014 by gman430

[goodbye]

The online article says 8-9 story office building, which I'm fine with given the other heights in the River district.

That height would be a disappointment, unless the building's architectural design is spectacular (luxuriously classy, not hideously modern). Considering the highly visible location, design is extremely important because this development will represent the city to countless visitors and foreign business leaders - not to mention the fact that it will be a highly visible part of everyday life for local residents as well.

[johnpro318]

That height would be a disappointment, unless the building's architectural design is spectacular (luxuriously classy, not hideously modern). Considering the highly visible location, design is extremely important because this development will represent the city to countless visitors and foreign business leaders - not to mention the fact that it will be a highly visible part of everyday life for local residents as well.

 

Does anyone have an overview of the actual site in question? Just wondering how much of an area this would take up.

[vicupstate]

It is just short of 4 acres. I believe it is substantially bigger than the entire ONE project, including the plaza and the part now under construction.  There is a possibility of the two remaining parcels (facing Main St.) being brought into the project as well.      

Edited October 21, 2014 by vicupstate

[mallguy]

I'm not exactly ecstatic about a fitness center and a dine-in movie theater at this location. I was thinking something higher-profile.

 

McAlister Square had a fitness center and a movie theater, and now-defunct Biltmore Square in Asheville had a dine-in movie theater, as does the Arboretum in Charlotte.

 

I was hoping for a nice high-end retailer or a major traffic generator.