Camperdown (Greenville News Building Site)

[Spartan]

Certainly hope this doesn't act as a red flag to other big national real estate development companies.   When they see a company as big as Trammell Crow backing out of a deal they might get cold feet themselves.

 

The last thing we want is another Auditorium site sitting around useless for years.

 

At least the Greenville News site is much better situated.  It could always be subdivided, I suppose.

 

This kind of thing happens regularly in development. Sometimes deals just don't work out. This is arguably most desirable parcel in downtown, so I think it's just a matter of time.

[gman430]

Greenville Mayor Knox White said today in an email: “The project will move ahead with the local development team, Centennial Properties. I have great confidence in their ability to make the project even better for downtown.”

JHM Hotels of Greenville has proposed a seven-story hotel as part of the project plans. JHM spokesman Jay Burnett said in an email that “our understanding is that the Camperdown project is still proceeding. We are working on our next (Design Review Board) submission and look forward to a successful project.”

Project on the DRB agenda for August also: http://gsabusiness.com/news/54948-developer-backs-out-of-greenville-news-property-deal?rss=0

Edited July 1, 2015 by gman430

[distortedlogic]

This site is as important if not more important than ONE.  I am fine with slow rolling this to make sure its done right and we have a developer that shares the city's vision/needs for this location.  We have been doing just fine with the building as is and we will continue to do so until the right plan and develop come along.  The city left the ONE spot as a vacant lot (which I was at times against) until the stars aligned and I am fine with doing the same here.  Any chance Trammell Crow is trying to play hardball?  This location seems like a no-brainer in regards to development and with all of the resident and hotel guest density being added.   Lets not rush to get anything built here that isnt a good fit.

I think you are on the right page here. This site is right in the thick of things and no way it stays undeveloped as long as the gateway site. Greenville has reached the point in it's DT development that it doesn't have to accept the first proposal on every parcel. This was a "first offer" and I'm glad the city (apparently) decided it wasn't what they wanted and felt they could ask for more. I am hoping for better architecture with future plans, and maybe a little more height as well. No, it doesn't have to be four 50 story buildings, but 10-20 story buildings would make a fine presence here without overwhelming everything.   

[goodbye]

Reiterating my previous statement, architectural design is very important in that location partially because it will be highly visible from the epicenter of tourism in the Upstate — Falls Park on the Reedy. The park will be seen by countless people from countless places around the world for countless generations to come, and by default, this development likely will be seen more than any other development as an urban backdrop to the falls.

[goodbye]

What statement is the city willing to make today that will create an iconic stamp for future generations of Greenville citizens and economic leaders?

[GvilleSC]

What statement is the city willing to make today that will create an iconic stamp for future generations of Greenville citizens and economic leaders?

Can you define this a bit? What statement do you want them to make? And in what form does that statement come?

Edited July 2, 2015 by GvilleSC

[MAJIKMAN]

Greenville Mayor Knox White said today in an email: “The project will move ahead with the local development team, Centennial Properties. I have great confidence in their ability to make the project even better for downtown.”

JHM Hotels of Greenville has proposed a seven-story hotel as part of the project plans. JHM spokesman Jay Burnett said in an email that “our understanding is that the Camperdown project is still proceeding. We are working on our next (Design Review Board) submission and look forward to a successful project.”

Project on the DRB agenda for August also: http://gsabusiness.com/news/54948-developer-backs-out-of-greenville-news-property-deal?rss=0

 

That statement that the mayor said kind of summed up the feelings of a lot of the folks from the city. '' I have great confidence in their ability to make the project even better for downtown.'' That's what I kept hearing. It can be better. Centennial must have seen this coming, with them continuing with the project. They must have had one the other bidders for the property waiting in the wings as a plan B. Especially with JHM continuing the development of the AC Hotel. It's good to see that JHM are resubmitting some more plans for the AC Hotel. Hope it looks better. Fingers crossed.

Edited July 2, 2015 by MAJIKMAN

[apaladin]

Don't know anything about Centennial but hope they can continue. I expect if nothing else this will cause significant delays. Like someone else said I hope this doesn't become another Gateway site that goes undeveloped for years and then just settle for anything. Granted this is a much more desirable location. I do like the quotes that it can be better, which it can.

[gman430]

Don't know anything about Centennial but hope they can continue. I expect if nothing else this will cause significant delays. Like someone else said I hope this doesn't become another Gateway site that goes undeveloped for years and then just settle for anything. Granted this is a much more desirable location. I do like the quotes that it can be better, which it can.

Significant delays? I beg to differ. Trammell

Crow dropped out of the project due to being unhappy with the DRB wanting changes with the project left and right. Everything is still moving forward with CAPLLC and JHM in charge now.

Edited July 3, 2015 by gman430

[Greenville]

Significant delays? I beg to differ. Trammell

Crow dropped out of the project due to being unhappy with the DRB wanting changes with the project left and right. Everything is still moving forward with CAPLLC and JHM in charge now.

 

I'm actually glad to see Trammell Crow withdraw. I wasn't crazy about their proposal, and am glad that the city has certain aspects it is not willing to compromise on. This is the difference between a city that is "hot" and can be choosy, and a city which is desperate for any investment. Greenville has come a long way, and I applaud city leaders for sticking to their guns.

 

This site is too important to not have high standards. While the Trammell Crow proposal would have been nice, it isn't close to fulfilling the potential for the site. I'm really excited to see what happens here. I don't think it will be a long, drawn out process either.

[StrangeCock]

It's baaaaaack...

 

http://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/local/2015/07/08/camperdown-development-back-track/29880891/

 

A local developer has agreed to buy The Greenville News site after an out-of-state developer backed out of the deal, keeping alive a landmark redevelopment of the prominent property.

 

Brody Glenn, president of Centennial American Properties of Greenville, and Dave Neill, president and publisher of The Greenville News, said their companies had executed a contract to sell the site of nearly four acres along Main Street to Centennial American. They said the deal will keep the previously announced Camperdown development on track.

Edited July 8, 2015 by StrangeCock

[gman430]

But I thought Trammell Crow pulled out due to the market not being able to support the project.

[btoy]

"Glenn said Wednesday that Trammell Crow's concerns included the time it was taking for the developers to secure approvals from the city of Greenville's Design Review Board."

[ausrutherford]

It never really left to begin with...

[Jet-set]

i wonder if it feels weird writing an article about how the building you're in is about to be utterly demolished.

Has anyone heard where they (G News) will be relocating to?

[vicupstate]

^^ It has been all but released that they will go in the project itself at Broad and Falls.

[gvegascple]

Glad to see this back on track with a more DRB-friendly developer!  I had held off saying this but I really liked the hotel as is, I think it looked great and had pretty decent access/frontage on all sides, which is important for a building facing the Peace Center and the internal courtyard that is a major component of the development.   That isnt to say that both sides couldnt be punched up a bit to be even better which is what I hope they bring back to the table.  

 

Another thing that has bothered me is the location of movie theater or how its not centered within the footprint.  It should be a focal point as the prime retail spot there and it seems absent minded or sloppy to have it as not the first thing your eye goes to in that interior space.

 

I agree that it gets messy as it blends, or more to the point, doesnt blend :-) into the falls though.

Edited July 9, 2015 by gvegascple

[Spartan]

Another thing that has bothered me is the location of movie theater or how its not centered within the footprint.  It should be a focal point as the prime retail spot there and it seems absent minded or sloppy to have it as not the first thing your eye goes to in that interior space.

 

 

 

I disagree. I think the movie theater is the destination, so people will seek it out. Having it where it is forces people to walk past the other shops along the way (similar to the anchor tenant concept at a mall).

[goodbye]

I am not thrilled with the notion that CAP is planning to move forward with the same plans. As mentioned earlier, the overall design is short-sighted in more than one aspect. It ignores the inevitable future development of neighboring properties (including the potential to develop a strong retail presence along Falls Street) and completely isolates the plaza from direct access to/from Falls Park rather than embracing its prime location and providing creative opportunities for alternative pedestrian flow between the sites.

The building plans also lack the attractive architectural details that would rise above the routine ho-hum design standard in Greenville, which is very important considering the development's highly visible location. I would prefer higher quality traditional components that will definitely withstand the test of time. These buildings should be beautiful and attractive works of art that the city and its guests will enjoy for several generations to come.

[vicupstate]

^^ My impression (which could be right or wrong) was the general site plan is the same, but the individual buildings will look different (to what degree I don't know) than what has been submitted before.

 

I love traditional architecture.but I just don't think that would work here. I also think it would be difficult to have street level retail presence along all of Main Street, all of Falls Street and also the plaza and also keep the possibility of the same facing the river. Loading docks and other 'backside' features such have to go somewhere.   

[MAJIKMAN]

^^ My impression (which could be right or wrong) was the general site plan is the same, but the individual buildings will look different (to what degree I don't know) than what has been submitted before.

I love traditional architecture.but I just don't think that would work here. I also think it would be difficult to have street level retail presence along all of Main Street, all of Falls Street and also the plaza and also keep the possibility of the same facing the river. Loading docks and other 'backside' features such have to go somewhere.

So short sighted so short sighted. You must've forgotten that there is going to be a parking deck built for the project. All of the , backside, features you mentioned would and could go there. I wonder where trammell was going to put those things. For a prime example of what can be done look at the one project. You would never know that their was a loading dock on Washington street if didn't see that roll up open. These are the kinds of things I know that can happen.

But I am going to say this, we will see more of a change to this to pay more attention to the streets in the area than what's presently represented. That was and is the biggest complaint against this project. And with Centennial taking over. They don't need to be as rushed and can have the patience to do it right.

Edited July 9, 2015 by MAJIKMAN

[gman430]

Looks like there will be design changes: http://www.gsabusiness.com/news/55023-greenville-news-site-deal-reached-camperdown-a-go?rss=0

Edited July 9, 2015 by gman430

[Greenville]

Looks like there will be design changes: http://www.gsabusiness.com/news/55023-greenville-news-site-deal-reached-camperdown-a-go?rss=0

 

Glad to hear this. I think the end result will be much better than the original plans. Plus, if they are using Avalon in Alpharetta, GA as a model this will be great. That is an awesome development.

[goodbye]

Looks like there will be design changes: http://www.gsabusiness.com/news/55023-greenville-news-site-deal-reached-camperdown-a-go?rss=0

That "archway entry" concept is especially atrocious and serves as yet another indication that the designers of this development have little understanding about genuinely attractive (not gimmicky) architectural design. How many random, tilted poles protruding awkwardly from the ground with silly (not serious) "shade" elements dangling overhead does a small city need? This is the type of shallow design element that says, "we act on whims because we lack clear vision. Da*n the past, da*n the future."

[GvilleSC]

I'm not necessarily sold on it, but I don't think it's fair to say that tensile structure "art" in the plaza is "shallow" simply because they lacked the ability to design this type of structure in Colonial times.