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gman

Camperdown (Greenville News Building Site)

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I guess I'm on "Team Plaza."  Large town squares function almost as a public living room for people to meet up, rest, hangout, people watch. Public squares are where people converge to enjoy quieter, cleaner, and car free spaces in an urban area. I think they are assets that add to civic pride and also increase the foot traffic to restaurants and stores around the square. 

 

This design is much better than a block to block building, imho. Where do you take people when they come to visit Greenville? The park, the swamp rabbit trail, the baseball stadium, and the shopping / restaurants on Main Street. Where do you stop to rest, and see other people resting, when walking downtown? One of the squares we have. This square could end up being the best of them. I almost think we're lucky to have a private company designing such a large outdoor space. 

 

If Trammel Crowe is going to let a lot of dollars per sq. foot purchased go to public use then I predict the buildings surrounding the square will be Class-A office, apartments, and a top tier hotel. You don't often see much trendy architecture with these type of buildings. I bet the architecture will be classical and conservative. 

 

In short, I'm pretty excited about this project. But I'm starting to get uncomfortable with the amount of apartments being built downtown. I know we want downtown residents, but I just don't know what traffic congestion will be like with thousands of residents moving into the 29601 area code. 

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Plazas can be good, but I too am nervous about the size of this one. There's a lack of continuous street wall in this area of downtown. We need that to contrast the "porous developments" that exist. Our only hope will be for something of this nature on the Northeast corner of Main/Broad. So before people claim that all plazas are always great: remember the old City Hall plaza-- poor design and ZERO use. A building along Broad instead of a car drop off would greatly improve the site plan and enhance the plaza a great deal. Let's see how the City steers this one. I almost wish the City were the plaza developer- One City Plaza is a gem. I trust their abilities. Unsure of private developers.

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I don't have a problem with the plaza area mainly due to the fact it's literally right on Main Street and the buildings which will be full of people open onto it.

I agree with you. I almost feel there is too much plaza... Couldn't they make it more park like if it is going to be this large? Or increase the width of some buildings? Also, I think the building at Main and Broad should be more impressive instead of a small retail spot... or am I missing something? Surely the signature piece won't make up for a lowrise at that corner?

The wider a building is, the shorter it looks. Food for thought.

Edited by gman430

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Yeah I guess that is true... have to wait on more detailed plans. If the plaza is that large then I would hope they have a lot of landscaping, probably more than One Plaza.

Now Greenville News has an article saying they may be one of the tenants for an office building.

Edited by johnpro318

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I guess I'm on "Team Plaza." Large town squares function almost as a public living room for people to meet up, rest, hangout, people watch. Public squares are where people converge to enjoy quieter, cleaner, and car free spaces in an urban area. I think they are assets that add to civic pride and also increase the foot traffic to restaurants and stores around the square.

This design is much better than a block to block building, imho. Where do you take people when they come to visit Greenville? The park, the swamp rabbit trail, the baseball stadium, and the shopping / restaurants on Main Street. Where do you stop to rest, and see other people resting, when walking downtown? One of the squares we have. This square could end up being the best of them. I almost think we're lucky to have a private company designing such a large outdoor space.

If Trammel Crowe is going to let a lot of dollars per sq. foot purchased go to public use then I predict the buildings surrounding the square will be Class-A office, apartments, and a top tier hotel. You don't often see much trendy architecture with these type of buildings. I bet the architecture will be classical and conservative.

In short, I'm pretty excited about this project. But I'm starting to get uncomfortable with the amount of apartments being built downtown. I know we want downtown residents, but I just don't know what traffic congestion will be like with thousands of residents moving into the 29601 area code.

Excellent observations, and I sincerely hope your presumption regarding classical/conservative architecture will become reality. I am curious about the layout of the "driveway" and the inclusion of multiple small retail/restaurant vendor spaces scattered across the plaza. The height of the surrounding buildings will psychologically offset the large feel of the plaza footprint.

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So the tallest of buildings will be 10 stories? As far as more residents causing more traffic, I don't see it. Those people will not be riding around, they will be in their homes or walking around.

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So the tallest of buildings will be 10 stories? As far as more residents causing more traffic, I don't see it. Those people will not be riding around, they will be in their homes or walking around.

11 stories. First floor is restaurant, second through seventh floors will be offices, and eighth through eleventh floors will be condos. I don't have a problem with more apartments coming downtown either. I look at it as more local businesses downtown being patronized.

Edited by gman430

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So the tallest of buildings will be 10 stories? As far as more residents causing more traffic, I don't see it. Those people will not be riding around, they will be in their homes or walking around.

Based on the quote below, the tallest building would be 11 stories from the plaza level, which will sit above the garage level as seen from the Liberty Bridge. So, that means it could rise 12 stories along Japanese Dogwood Lane.

The larger of the two office buildings, near the Reedy River bridge, would have a restaurant at the plaza level overlooking Falls Park, six stories of office space over that and another four stories of luxury condos above that.

Edited by Skyliner

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Based on the quote below, the tallest building would be 11 stories from the plaza level, which will sit above the garage level as seen from the Liberty Bridge. So, that means it could rise 12 stories along Japanese Dogwood Lane.

 

 

With as many spaces as they are talking...might be more like 13 to 14. 

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With as many spaces as they are talking...might be more like 13 to 14.

The parking garage will be three-four stories tall. Don't know how much of this if any of it will be underground.

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The parking garage will be three-four stories tall. Don't know how much of this if any of it will be underground.

 

It all depends on the terrain of that area. The current "underground" parking lot for Greenville News is probably the layout they will keep, just extend it out to Dogwood Lane. As it gets closer to Dogwood Land, it will likely increase in depth aka start at one level underground near Broad and then work the land until it is 2 or 3 above ground at Dogwood Lane.

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Aside from the architectural design, which we anticipate will be aesthetically attractive and high quality, I am also eager to learn how the development will "connect" with Falls Park.

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I'm not seeing a lot of retail space here; other than the movie theater and fitness center, the retail space seems large enough to accommodate just a few boutiques and restaurants at most.

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I'm not seeing a lot of retail space here; other than the movie theater and fitness center, the retail space seems large enough to accommodate just a few boutiques and restaurants at most.

Nothing wrong with that.

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I see what you mean mallguy. We'll have to see what's going to come out when the site plan comes up for review. Looking at it the way it is is a little....... Uninformative at the moment. For me anyway.

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It all depends on the terrain of that area. The current "underground" parking lot for Greenville News is probably the layout they will keep, just extend it out to Dogwood Lane. As it gets closer to Dogwood Land, it will likely increase in depth aka start at one level underground near Broad and then work the land until it is 2 or 3 above ground at Dogwood Lane.

That may be true, although it may or may not add much extra height. The plaza itself appears to step down toward the river. I just don't know how much lower it will be. Nonetheless, we can expect to see decent height from Falls Park. I love the fact that luxury condominiums will be added above the office and restaurant space. That should provide incentive for increasing floor heights and (hopefully) more attractive architectural design.

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From the original conceptual site plan:

Development Summary

Retail = 44,100 s.f.

Theater = 30,000 s.f. (+ 5,700 s.f. bistro)

Fitness = 28,500 s.f.

Office = 132,000 s.f.

Hotel = +/- 140 rooms (5 levels)

Residential = 241 units

  • For Rent = 225 units (7 levels)
  • For Sale = 16 units (4 levels)

Parking = +/- 900 spaces on 3/4 levels

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Other notable elements on the plan include two levels of retail under the hotel along Main Street and the theater appears to sit below the plaza with retail at the plaza level.

Edited by Skyliner

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For my post about the retail being enough for just boutiques and restaurants, remember, retail needs anchors.  Downtown retail is almost all cutesy boutiques- thank goodness for Mast and some other larger ones, which generate more traffic that spills over for the cutesy boutiques.  The Greenville News site would have been perfect for a larger store, but 44,000 or so sf, laid out according to the plan that I see, won't have it, but hopefully I'm wrong.

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Aside from the architectural design, which we anticipate will be aesthetically attractive and high quality, I am also eager to learn how the development will "connect" with Falls Park.

It would be pretty cool to connect to the park by building a pedestrian bridge that goes from the front of the development across Murphy and either adds a new entrance to the park where there are currently trees to connect to the suspension bridge or continue the pedestrian bridge over the river to connect to the other side of the river. Not sure who would pay for this... but would be a cool way to enter the park.

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For my post about the retail being enough for just boutiques and restaurants, remember, retail needs anchors.  Downtown retail is almost all cutesy boutiques- thank goodness for Mast and some other larger ones, which generate more traffic that spills over for the cutesy boutiques.  The Greenville News site would have been perfect for a larger store, but 44,000 or so sf, laid out according to the plan that I see, won't have it, but hopefully I'm wrong.

 

I agree, but why not put retail anchors off of Main?  Doing so would be a great way to extend the pedestrian activity downtown, rather than using (wasting) primo land such as the Greenville News site on an large anchor.  I share your desire for a nice urban Target downtown, but why not put something like that a few blocks over on Academy where the land is cheaper and not as important?  Target doesn't need to be adjacent to the Peace Center and Falls Park.  A destination development like we will have on the Greenville News site does.

 

To me, this site screams mixed use and focal point.  I LOVE the mix of retail, hotel, and business uses while also incorporating a nice park which will complement Falls Park very well.

 

This could be a game changer for Greenville.

Edited by Greenville

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I agree, but why not put retail anchors off of Main?  Doing so would be a great way to extend the pedestrian activity downtown, rather than using (wasting) primo land such as the Greenville News site on an large anchor.  I share your desire for a nice urban Target downtown, but why not put something like that a few blocks over on Academy where the land is cheaper and not as important?  Target doesn't need to be adjacent to the Peace Center and Falls Park.  A destination development like we will have on the Greenville News site does.

 

To me, this site screams mixed use and focal point.  I LOVE the mix of retail, hotel, and business uses while also incorporating a nice park which will complement Falls Park very well.

 

This could be a game changer for Greenville.

 

Agree.  It would be good to get some retail draws a block or two off Main Street to fill out the downtown area.

 

I also don't think we should worry about the height of the buildings.   What we want is activity and an attractive block to tie it all together.

 

The game changers were the Main Street/Hyatt projects; the Peace Center; and Falls Park/Riverplace.    This should be a game enhancer - another TD.

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