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5th & Broadway | 501 Commerce | NMAAM | 34 story apt, 26 story office, + 183,000 sq. ft. of Retail


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17 minutes ago, ariesjow said:

 It would be nice if some of you would learn to appreciate people with a different perspective.

DITTO.

Unless you're saying that the city or state is keeping out diverse entertainment from downtown...I'm not sure what you guys are suggesting.   If someone has the money to make it happen...and if they feel their ROI is good...it will probably happen.  

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7 hours ago, titanhog said:

DITTO.

Unless you're saying that the city or state is keeping out diverse entertainment from downtown...I'm not sure what you guys are suggesting.   If someone has the money to make it happen...and if they feel their ROI is good...it will probably happen.  

Yep. I'd guess it is more business owner / investor perspective than anything. It is expensive as hell to open anything along Broadway now and the safe assumption is 99% of the people know what they came to Nashville for and that's putting on cowboy boots and bar hopping Honky Tonks. Trying a few things counter culture could prove a huge success or a massive failure. It will take some risk. I actually do think Fifth + Broadway will help because it is going to add to the diversity of offerings right in the center of the city. I don't think it will change the lower broad strip, but maybe open be a bridge for some more diverse concepts in the immediate area. 

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9 hours ago, ariesjow said:

1) There is a market there that is already being missed. I've literally talked to women here for bachelorette parties that ask me where there are dance clubs that spin pop or top 40 downtown. I could only name the rooftop of Acme and maybe HQ Beercade as a potential reprieve from the honky tonks within walking distance for them. 

2) I'm not talking specifically about businesses downtown that specifically cater to people of color or LGBT people. I'm talking about businesses downtown where people from those communities can just feel welcomed. That's not really the case right now particularly on Lower Broadway where they will possibly be greeted with some random local with an outlandishly-sized Trump banner on the back of his pickup camped out in front a bar, confederate flags galore, and a bunch of drunken people one drink away from launching slurs at them for simply looking different. 

I tend to avoid Lower Broadway unless I'm playing the role of tour guide for out-of-town friends, but I do know of several LGBT people (myself included) who  feel completely comfortable going into the honky-tonks downtown. I've seen plenty of bar patrons who are of other ethnicities and other races. From what I've seen (so far), the vibe tends to be to-each-his-own in those bars. I've never heard a political fight, or a racial or gay slur, and I doubt the bar owners and staff would tolerate that if they saw it happen. The last thing those bars want is negative press.

Of course others might have had worse experiences, and maybe I've been fortunate. Having lived in Nashville for 11 years, I'm usually much more concerned about getting mugged by a stranger outside a dark parking garage or a poorly lit side street rather than being harassed with gay slurs. 

But I do understand the points you're making. It would be great to have pockets of downtown that cater to more diverse types of crowds and music, and I'd love to see that happen someday. Until then, the bachelorette parties will keep going to Play over on Church Street to find their dance party.

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I'm also a member of the LGBT crowd and I see a pretty good representation downtown, everyday, among the tourists. I see no problems with everyone interacting. Most don't really seem to care.

I've been to most all the bars and at least at the multi level ones, there is more than just country music being played. You may find a country band on the first floor, but on another, a band playing a mix of genres.

I think there will be more types of music as the bars will need to differentiate from each other.

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38 minutes ago, Ingram said:

 

1) Is there supposed to be a quota on the type entities that go on Broadway? Broadway is jam packed nightly and daily for a reason.  If they are too lazy to go 30 yards to B.B. Kings or 150 yards to Bourbon Street Blues and Boogie Bar then that's their problem. It's a good thing that downtown doesn't contain the type of joints where the patrons shoot into crowds because they got "dissed".

2) If a Donald Trump banner or bumper sticker unsettles them that much then those so called professionals sound like the type of people Nashville or the companies here don't need. Broadway did those businesses a big time favor.

2) You say the face of Nashville is downtown. Well downtown is serving Nashville pretty well right now. I know reading that makes the Oscar the Grouch crowd throw a hissy fit and their garbage cans against the wall. In the real world outside of internet forums, downtown is bringing in record numbers of visitors and corporate relocations. So it's not as bad as those around here fabricate it to be.

3) As far as playing with the "Big Boys" (whatever that means), Nashville already is. Why do you think of the 40 plus buildings in the works or under construction in and around the central business district, 40% are hotels? 

He was simply saying you could make it appeal to a wider audience, not to shut down what is already there. Calm down. 

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36 minutes ago, samsonh said:

He was simply saying you could make it appeal to a wider audience, not to shut down what is already there. Calm down. 

 

36 minutes ago, samsonh said:

He was simply saying you could make it appeal to a wider audience, not to shut down what is already there. Calm down. 

Where in my post did I say he wanted to shut down anything? Apparently my post has you hallucinating and reading things that are not there. With that being a fact I think you should be advising yourself.

Edited by Ingram
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I like the clustering affect we have going on, but I would also agree that our marketing and/or incentives should be steering away from the honky-tonk flavor and towards encouraging and publicizing other current and future diverse offerings. Nothing wrong with honky-tonks, the opry, etc., and we shouldn't do anything to obstruct them. You gotta dance with the horse that brung you. But that piece of our image is well cemented and is on auto-pilot. The "market" (in the sense of investment $) is fully engaged and needs no help.  One unfortunate failing of markets is the herd mentality of capital and the associated wild swings of overcompensation. If it's possible to create a bubble market in 5-story + rooftop honky-tonks, we're going to have one.

To mitigate being type cast it's worth putting resources towards building on our other nodes of music & entertainment, and getting as many convention visitors & bachelorettes as possible out to try them out. Printers alley is awesome, as is the east nashville scene, the sobro/indie area (mercy, cannery, 3rd man), and many other venus & smaller clusters. Seems like they'd benefit from some branding and some amplification.

One caveat is that this should only be done where we have an authentic, organic scene to work with. Top-down efforts to rebrand into diversity are lame and artificial. In that vein, I've always thought the NMAAM is an odd fit at that location. Maybe it'll find some synergy with the stuff going in at Nashville Yards, but as it stands right now it's going to feel like a little grafted on, like a baseball hall of fame next to Old Trafford. Maybe that's the point, but I think a more authentic location would've been somewhere like Jefferson or Buchanan, where it could have catalyzed some development and visitor $ that could build on and reinforce of our real, actual A-A culture, which is rapidly getting displaced, diluted, and priced out of the area. Instead it looks like we're going to have an isolated diversity checkbox on the border between the sea of honky-tonks and new high-end glass high-rise Nashville that's going to dominate Broadway above 5th.

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Ingram rarely posts here, but often seems to have a stick up his...  for some reason.  Lighten up buddy!  We're all friends here.  Everybody has a bad day now and again, but no need to be so combative all the time.

Edited by BnaBreaker
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12 hours ago, ariesjow said:

I'm talking about businesses downtown where people from those communities can just feel welcomed. That's not really the case right now particularly on Lower Broadway where they will possibly be greeted with some random local with an outlandishly-sized Trump banner on the back of his pickup camped out in front a bar, confederate flags galore, and a bunch of drunken people one drink away from launching slurs at them for simply looking different. 

I spend at least part of every weekend on Broadway, and I can assure you this is not the case. I have never encountered anything that was hostile or unwelcoming in that way. I know LGBT people from all over the country that visit Nashville and not only enjoy it, but come back frequently.

There is, of course, Church Street, but I think we are forgetting about the numerous "trendy" bars in East Nashville and WeHo. I think people from all walks of life can find their niche in Nashville.

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1 hour ago, AronG said:

One caveat is that this should only be done where we have an authentic, organic scene to work with. Top-down efforts to rebrand into diversity are lame and artificial. In that vein, I've always thought the NMAAM is an odd fit at that location. Maybe it'll find some synergy with the stuff going in at Nashville Yards, but as it stands right now it's going to feel like a little grafted on, like a baseball hall of fame next to Old Trafford. Maybe that's the point, but I think a more authentic location would've been somewhere like Jefferson or Buchanan, where it could have catalyzed some development and visitor $ that could build on and reinforce of our real, actual A-A culture, which is rapidly getting displaced, diluted, and priced out of the area. Instead it looks like we're going to have an isolated diversity checkbox on the border between the sea of honky-tonks and new high-end glass high-rise Nashville that's going to dominate Broadway above 5th.

The National Museum of African American Music was originally slated for the location where the new Tennessee State Museum is being built on Jefferson Street and Rosa Parks. The backers of the museum's development wanted it moved to a more high profile location, unable to predict that the original location would be evolving into a more desirable spot by the time the plans would finally come to fruition.

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This article from USA Today in 2014 indicates that the current location for the museum was the THIRD location selected! (It does NOT indicate what the other locations were, although both Mark and I remember the Jefferson Street location) The museum was originally slated to be Museum of African American Music, Art and Culture but was ultimately focused on music only.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/04/09/african-american-music-museum-nashville/7531257/

 

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I think it'll be a great amenity and it'll do very well in terms of visitorship. I just think museums carry more weight when they're located in the cultural context that they're celebrating. I know they relocated it for legitimate business model reasons though, and since that ship has sailed I shouldn't even really b*tch about it. I wish them nothing but success, and to the debate in this thread, it will at least add some visible stylistic diversity to Broadway.

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It was not just relocated for  business reasons as politics were also part of the equation. If memory serves, part of the convention center + emery deal was the need to gain support form the council members representing the minority communities of Nashville....the allocation of space at no or reduced cost inside the 5th and Broadway development ...then the large sign presence for the museum ...then the two entrances for the museum ...was the pay to play.

 

37 minutes ago, AronG said:

I think it'll be a great amenity and it'll do very well in terms of visitorship. I just think museums carry more weight when they're located in the cultural context that they're celebrating. I know they relocated it for legitimate business model reasons though, and since that ship has sailed I shouldn't even really b*tch about it. I wish them nothing but success, and to the debate in this thread, it will at least add some visible stylistic diversity to Broadway.

 

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14 minutes ago, nashville_bound said:

It was not just relocated for  business reasons as politics were also part of the equation. If memory serves, part of the convention center + emery deal was the need to gain support form the council members representing the minority communities of Nashville....the allocation of space at no or reduced cost inside the 5th and Broadway development ...then the large sign presence for the museum ...then the two entrances for the museum ...was the pay to play.

By business model reasons I mean the ability to ensure the financial viability of the museum as it pertains to visitor counts, ticket price, etc. Politics is part of every downtown development, and of course advocates for the museum pushed for prominent space, signs, etc, as any good CM would do for a worthy nonprofit popular in their district. I suppose you could call it pay to play when provision of public amenities are considered as part of a metro land sale, but it seems pretty different than the conventional use - "donating" money to politicians personally in return for favors.

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While I frown on pay to play, I acknowledge it is part of our government process for good or ill. My referring to pay to play in this instance was add to information to the larger discussion on why the venue was moved from Jefferson Street, not cast derision.

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No reason to expect that the NMAAM can't relocate at some point in the future to Jefferson Street or another locale once it is established with a steady visitor base. I would imagine that the museum, like most other institutions, would ultimately want to occupy a dedicated building, so that they have control over the size of their space, architecture, etc.

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