Manchester Development

[Brent114]

I don’t know that the nimbyism will be very effective here.  Aside from Legend, no one with any political clout can oppose this is right?  The apartment buildings are full of renters (no clout) and it isn’t like people won’t rent those units anyway, even if the view is partially obscured.  Of course from my perspective, a few buildings in the foreground add to the skyline.  It’s actually very easy to see around a building that is 2-3 blocks away too . 

[Hike]

2 minutes ago, Brent114 said:

I don’t know that the nimbyism will be very effective here.  Aside from Legend, no one with any political clout can oppose this is right?  The apartment buildings are full of renters (no clout) and it isn’t like people won’t rent those units anyway, even if the view is partially obscured.  Of course from my perspective, a few buildings in the foreground add to the skyline.  It’s actually very easy to see around a building that is 2-3 blocks away too . 

The article mentioned these potential opposition.

Legend v.p. and a Manchester Allianceboard member/new Manchester resident, who bought a home on the hill next to legend.

[Jordon]

2 hours ago, Hike said:

You seem to have some inside scoop. Definitely a different design type for the area and seems similar to what the styles illustrate in the website for Avery investments.

I wish I did, just and ordinary guy interested in development lol, these screenshots are from the Manchester Alliance meeting that they post every 2nd Tuesday of every month. 

[Hike]

31 minutes ago, Jordon said:

I wish I did, just and ordinary guy interested in development lol, these screenshots are from the Manchester Alliance meeting that they post every 2nd Tuesday of every month. 

Reminds me of a line from the movie American Beauty.  

https://youtu.be/u5Dit1cqMmI 

thanks for adding these.

 

[Richmonopoly]

This makes me giddy with excitement. 

[eandslee]

46 minutes ago, Jordon said:

I wish I did, just and ordinary guy interested in development lol, these screenshots are from the Manchester Alliance meeting that they post every 2nd Tuesday of every month. 

Where do they post these and do we have access?

[eandslee]

18 minutes ago, Richmonopoly said:

This makes me giddy with excitement. 

It's a big deal when a NY developer wants to come here an build a major project!  It's like Richmond is growing up!

[Jordon]

1 hour ago, eandslee said:

Where do they post these and do we have access?

Manchester Alliance Page on Facebook

[rjp212]

Really no excuse not to have a grocery store on this side of town anymore. 

[I miss RVA]

This is FANTASTIC!! Holy wow - the "Christmas/Hanukkah in July Special" just keeps on giving!!

As for the pushback - yeah, of course the damn NIMBYs (BANANAs) are going to yell and scream about height. Were they yelling about it when the previously proposed twin tower project was announced? Aside from the still undefined design and layout of the complex, my guess is that they're all up in arms about a 17-story building rising along the Manchester riverfront claiming view obstruction.

So here are MY pushbacks against the fallacious arguments of the folks at Manchester Alliance, Dave Gott/Legends and the homeowner who bought into the lowrise condos near the Manchester Bridge:

1.) HEIGHT: Height itself isn't the issue. How do we know this? For one, relative lack of pushback and outcry when the River's Edge II project was announced. The massing of those buildings and their location would have blocked the view from Legends even more than this potential two-building development. Do you mean to tell me that a 17-story building is going to cause MORE of an obstruction at the level of these condos and the Legends' deck than an 11-story building will? If so, then I want whatever the heck it is these folks are smoking because the spacial awareness distortion seems like a pretty mind-blowing trip. Legends' deck is at most, what, three stories above street level? So the HEIGHT of the buildings - be they 11, 13, 15, 17 - 100 stories MAKES NO DIFFERENCE because ALL of them rise above the level of the deck. Ditto the condo - from a third or fourth-floor level (how tall are those low-risers?) - it won't matter if the building is 11 stories, 17 stories or 150 stories. Simple geometry tells us that the view will be obstructed in one fashion or another after the towers go past about the 6 or 7 story level at MAX. What will cause the most visual obstruction is MASSING (how WIDE are the buildings?) and placement. The 11-story L-shaped building will be more obstructive than the strictly vertical 17-story tower, particularly if the 17-story building is aligned such that it presents its narrower profile toward the river and the wider profile parallel to the river. Even with the Manchester street grid on an angle relative to downtown, the 17-story building presents less of an obstruction from both Legends and the condos than the 11-story L-shaped building does.

2.) LEGENDS: As folks here in our forum community - and on the RBS comments section -- have proposed: a PERFECT solution would be to move the retailing/taproom/bar/restaurant portion of the brewery to the residential complex. Why can't Legends work out a deal with the developers? These guys are from NYC - where stuff like this happens ALLLLL THEEEEEEEE TIMEEEEEE!!!! I'm sure they'd be more than happy to try to work out something that would be a win-win for both parties. Having a draw like Legends IN HOUSE in the new complex is a surefire win for the new residential buildings. And having 525 apartments worth of potential new customers JUST A FEW HUNDRED FEET AWAY is a Michael Jordanesque slam dunk winner for Legends. NOT working something out is plain and simply STUPID - and I would argue, likely ego-driven on the part of whoever wouldn't be willing to step up to the plate.

3.) NIMBYs: As for the NIMBYs - particularly Manchester Alliance, Legends customers and the folks in the small lowrise condos - I respectfully remind all of them: YOU LIVE/WORK/EXIST IN A CITY!!! CITIES GROW. CITIES DEVELOP. SOMETIMES YOU GET VIEWS - SOMETIMES YOU LOSE VIEWS. IT'S PART OF LIVING/WORKING/EXISTING IN A CITY!!! YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO HOLD AN ENTIRE CITY BACK JUST TO "PRESERVE" YOUR PRECIOUS VIEWS. TO QUOTE A FAMOUS LINE: "THE NEEDS OF THE MANY OUTWEIGH THE NEEDS OF THE FEW... OR THE ONE."  In this case, the MANY is RVA collectively as a CITY. Richmond NEEDS this development. Legends customers, the condo purchasers, the Manchester Alliance DON'T NEED the views. And as far as Legends goes, they can reclaim their view if they work out something with the developer and move the retail/taproom part of their establishment to the new buildings. Richmond's NIMBYism is, indeed, legendary ... but they need to sit down and shut their mouths for once and stop trying to derail everything positive that comes to this city.

Edited July 18, 2022 by I miss RVA

[I miss RVA]

A side thought to all of this: not that the two sections of the city are in a "race" to out-develop the other, but there's little question that if this development comes to pass, it will CLEARLY put Manchester in the lead ahead of Scott's Addition as THE hottest location for new development and far-and-away the fastest growing section of RVA. Can you imagine Manchester in another five or so years with these towers, as well as something substantial in size and (hopefully) height on the Silos site, plus South Falls II (and hopefully III), and other large developments on Commerce Road (perhaps that 12-to-16 story building) ??  Even with what's going on in Scott's right now, Manchester would begin pulling away (in a manner of speaking) with the lead in development were all these projects to come to pass (plus everything else currently in the pipeline). As @ancientcarpentersaid the other day - it's akin to developing an entirely new city on the south bank of the James.

Edited July 18, 2022 by I miss RVA

[rjp212]

Dogtown Dish has gone from "pro-anything Hild" to essentially a NIMBY reddit forum.  17-story building is the same as us becoming Hong Kong.  The horrors!

Edited July 18, 2022 by rjp212

[Hike]

1 hour ago, rjp212 said:

Dogtown Dish has gone from "pro-anything Hild" to essentially a NIMBY reddit forum.  17-story building is the same as us becoming Hong Kong.  The horrors!

Your post sent me to their Facebook page and this is the image they say is similar to what’s happening to legends, see link below.  Can’t tell if they’re being serious by exaggerating like this.
https://m.facebook.com/DogtownDish

[Brent114]

I responded to their post on FB lol 

[Hike]

2 minutes ago, Brent114 said:

I responded to their post on FB lol 

Asked about parking? 

[I miss RVA]

It's nice to see that the vast majority of folks who weighed in on this on rva/reddit are generally in favor of the new buildings AND a huge number of those who posted strongly advocate for Legends to work out a deal with the developer to get the bar/taproom/restaurant part of the brewery into one of the towers (some suggesting rooftop). I'm surprised because I thought there would be more pushback on Reddit than there appears to be. That's VERY encouraging! As was the case on the RBS comments section to this story, a LOT of folks are being quite upfront in pointing out the HUGE win opportunity that exists for Legends, particularly if they were to partner with the developer, rather than be obstinate and attempt to fight the project. Even if they sat and did nothing, their customer base would expand dramatically with two apartment towers right next door. I don't understand Manchester Alliance's piece in all of this - because Manchester as a whole WINS with this project being built - and Manchester as a whole LOSES if this project gets derailed, God-forbid. It's in everyone's best interest to support this development and do everything possible to grease the wheels to help this project get off the ground quickly. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/rva/comments/w20z34/17_and_11_story_towers_coming_to_manchester/

Edited July 19, 2022 by I miss RVA

[Brent114]

10 hours ago, Hike said:

Asked about parking? 

No, but I did a laughing emoji response to that comment.

Mine was the “dare to dream” comment.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Brent114

[I miss RVA]

10 hours ago, Brent114 said:

No, but I did a laughing emoji response to that comment.

Mine was the “dare to dream” comment.

Nice! 

[123fakestreet]

On 7/18/2022 at 3:20 PM, I miss RVA said:

 not that the two sections of the city are in a "race" to out-develop the other, but there's little question that if this development comes to pass, it will CLEARLY put Manchester in the lead ahead of Scott's Addition as THE hottest location for new development and far-and-away the fastest growing section of RVA. 

I think it's because Scotts Addition has more restrictions on height than Manchester (whether formal building code or practical due to NIMBYs), and SA is a very finite area and it's getting to the point that's it's about full.  Manchester still has room to grow, both up and out.

Edited July 20, 2022 by 123fakestreet

[I miss RVA]

6 hours ago, 123fakestreet said:

I think it's because Scotts Addition has more restrictions on height than Manchester (whether formal building code or practical due to NIMBYs), and SA is a very finite area and it's getting to the point that's it's about full.  Manchester still has room to grow, both up and out.

Manchester has one other advantage - a riverfront, which is a natural draw for development. Both parts of town have been absolutely going nuclear with development - and even as finite and landlocked as it is, Scott's still has plenty of space for lots of intense, high-density development. Aside from the fact that there are still quite a few active businesses operating in Scott's, I'm honestly surprised the city hasn't moved forward to zone all of the neighborhood as TOD-1. It would clean up the process for developers to build larger - even if not all the way to 12 stories - without the time-consuming process of filing for an SUP. Interesting that while there's some TOD-1 zoning in Manchester, there are an increasing number of parcels that have received B4 zoning in the past year or so. I can't help but think that should the NY developers build their 17-story (as well as their 11-story) towers on Manchester's riverfront, that might blow the cap off of height (in a manner of speaking) for development there. If they demonstrate that building tall is viable, works, and is a good investment, other developers -- especially those from out-of-town/out-of-state with deep pockets -- might start showing up with big plans for big towers. I hope and pray that comes to pass!

Edited July 20, 2022 by I miss RVA

[rjp212]

On 7/14/2022 at 3:26 PM, rjp212 said:

Looks like the company tied to Tidewater is attempting to rezoning the lot next to it.  Wasn't this once planned to be mixed use with a possible grocery store?  Now looks to be 260 units.

https://energov.richmondgov.com/EnerGov_Prod/selfservice#/plan/106f92f8-7f75-4d45-a3c1-9b41d1a95bda?tab=attachments

More details confirming The Beach Co. is under contract for this block.  Also, it seems the block containing Stella 360 is also under contract.   

https://richmondbizsense.com/2022/07/21/two-entire-city-blocks-in-manchester-in-play-for-new-development/

"Milam said he thinks Property Results is looking to sell to free up some of their time and attention, particularly as the firm’s getting ready to kick off work on a 65-unit second phase of PortRVA on Hull Street."

Interestingly enough, when I drove by the PortRVA II lot this morning, contractors were out digging the lot up.  

[Brent114]

Wow.  Port RVA II has started for real.  I read the above comment as some people getting soil samples or something, 

Nope.  It’s a backhoe.  The trees and shrubbery have all been ripped out.  The parking lot has been vacated.   By Monday or Tuesday there should be a fence and port-O-potties! 

Edited July 21, 2022 by Brent114

[I miss RVA]

Yeah - the former 12-story residential building at 512 Hull Street... that's gotten butcher-blocked down to five stories and that covers -- at best -- maybe half of the footprint of the original building. Woo hoo... 

Sorry - and even though I don't fault the developer one bit - they got Hulk-smashed by COVID -- and to their credit, they even tried to sell the property -- but tbh I have about as much excitement about this glass of watered-down ice tea as I do about Block D's ritual sacrifice at the altar of Richmond's "market size" - only I'm not quite as bitter about this (512 Hull) as I am about Block D.  Regardless, to me, it's still as much of a loss as it is a gain.

Looking at the difference between the two versions of 512 Hull, forgive me if I crack open a can of "meh" on this one.

Edited July 21, 2022 by I miss RVA

[Shakman]

6 hours ago, Brent114 said:

Wow.  Port RVA II has started for real.  I read the above comment as some people getting soil samples or something, 

Nope.  It’s a backhoe.  The trees and shrubbery have all been ripped out.  The parking lot has been vacated.   By Monday or Tuesday there should be a fence and port-O-potties! 

Now that's what I'm talking about it!  When we start seeing double-wides, then we know Richmond no longer wears pull-ups.

Edited July 21, 2022 by Shakman

[asies]

I didn't get to snap a picture yet but it looks like construction has started on the site of the planned 32 Duplexes between Bainbridge and Porter just south of Commerce. I live just two blocks to the north so I'll report back on any porto-potty sitings, lol.