Manchester Development

[rjp212]

I saw this pop up on RTD, but it seems to just be a rehash of the Bizsense story.

https://richmond.com/business/local/new-york-developers-revise-manchester-high-rise-project-to-preserve-legends-skyline-view/article_c52caf0e-e85a-5bf4-bc7d-0aa874456974.html#tracking-source=home-top-story

But honestly with these comments from Gott, I never intend on visiting Legends again.  

"Gott and Avery Hall’s spokesperson said residents welcomed the change but expect more changes to come as developers seek to submit an official proposal.

“Like I said, this project isn’t just about us anymore. People have questions about what’s happening in Manchester and we've got a long way to go," said Gott."

Edited September 21, 2022 by rjp212

[eandslee]

There’s probably a parking deck in those first few (3) floors and then the residential portion begins…20 stories of residential.  The flood wall on the opposite side blocks how many floors fall below the wall line. The first residential floor probably starts at the point you can view downtown.

Edited September 21, 2022 by eandslee

[BigBobbyG]

50 minutes ago, rjp212 said:

I saw this pop up on RTD, but it seems to just be a rehash of the Bizsense story.

https://richmond.com/business/local/new-york-developers-revise-manchester-high-rise-project-to-preserve-legends-skyline-view/article_c52caf0e-e85a-5bf4-bc7d-0aa874456974.html#tracking-source=home-top-story

But honestly with these comments from Gott, I never intend on visiting Legends again.  

"Gott and Avery Hall’s spokesperson said residents welcomed the change but expect more changes to come as developers seek to submit an official proposal.

“Like I said, this project isn’t just about us anymore. People have questions about what’s happening in Manchester and we've got a long way to go," said Gott."

Yeah his comments are annoying the hell out of me, the sheer entitlement he has (despite the developer's willingness to change up their plans) is infuriating. It's like he thinks he is the "voice of the people" of Manchester.

[eandslee]

I swear, if these morons prevent Avery Hall from building, at least, a 17-story building, I'm going to be pissed!  The developers need to ignore these people.  The problem is that they are getting media attention!  Why?!  These folks are the very small minority and the whole project need not change for a few voices of opposition.  Also, the list of requests from them continues to grow longer and longer.  At first, it was just the view.  Fixed.  Now, it's about overcrowding, etc., etc.  These developers need to realize that it will NEVER stop.  The list will continue to grow no matter what they do.  I'm worried that a SUP hasn't been submitted yet.  One thing I've learned in this town is this:  if you want to build something, do it quickly or else there will be too much time for the NIMBYs to come out and build an army of opposition to your project.  In many cases, these morons win and the project ends up dying.  This is the story that just got me worked up:

https://www.wric.com/news/local-news/richmond/redesign-of-manchester-residential-project-fails-to-consider-community-concerns-richmond-residents-say/

[I miss RVA]

6 hours ago, eandslee said:

1.) The developers need to ignore these people. 

2.) The problem is that they are getting media attention!  Why?!  These folks are the very small minority and the whole project need not change for a few voices of opposition. 

3.) Also, the list of requests from them continues to grow longer and longer.  At first, it was just the view.  Fixed.  Now, it's about overcrowding, etc., etc.  These developers need to realize that it will NEVER stop.  The list will continue to grow no matter what they do. 

4.) I'm worried that a SUP hasn't been submitted yet. 

5.)One thing I've learned in this town is this:  if you want to build something, do it quickly or else there will be too much time for the NIMBYs to come out and build an army of opposition to your project. 

6.) In many cases, these morons win and the project ends up dying.

 

NOW you know why I freak out SO much about stuff like preservation and NIMBYism snuffing out development in Richmond. I've seen this very same playbook used over and over and over and over and over for 50-plus years. It hasn't changed one iota from as far back as I can remember.

Okay - time for one of my (in)famous responsoria:

1.) CORRECT. The developers need to put on blinkers - keep focus, push ahead, push hard to get the SUP and BUILD THE DAMN PROJECT!

2.) Fully agreed. I could slap Channel 8 and the RT-D for giving these mamzerim a platform to bellow into their NIMBY megaphones.

3.) Again, CORRECT!! The list will not only keep growing, it'll keep evolving and changing. These NIMBYs will keep moving the goal posts, no matter what Avery Hall does. Why? Because their "complaints" are total bull$&!+* - a complete smokescreen to delay and derail. Their BIGGEST issue really is that they don't want the development to be built AT ALL - PERIOD.

4.) Worried about the SUP: At this point, I'm not worried -- YET.

I think Avery Hall is going several extra miles to work with the community and get all their ducks in a row to make a push to the city for an SUP. I think the GOOD NEWS is the fact that they have stated that, with or without the permit, they can build by right up to 13 stories and will do so if push comes to shove. Perhaps our gurus such as @wrldcoupe4and @upzoningisgoodcould weigh in with some real educated thought regarding filing the SUP and the chances for getting it without a problem.

5.)  EXACTLY!!! ANNOUNCE, FILE, BUILD AND DON'T GIVE THE NIMBYS TIME TO MOUNT A COUNTERATTACK!!! Here again is why I get SO freaked out when certain projects get delayed. 

6.) As stated above, I've seen this happen again and again in this city for 50 years, and this is part in parcel why I go SO overboard on here screaming, yelling and jumping up and down against the preservationists and NIMBYs because they will kill EVERYTHING they possibly can if they can - and no one on here can tell me otherwise BECAUSE I HAVE WITNESSED IT. We are witnessing it RIGHT NOW in all its WORST inglorious buffoonery with the Legends situation. It's clear as day after watching the TV8 interviews, that these people want NO MORE MANCHESTER DEVELOPMENT. They essentially said it - they don't want the density. I guarantee you they're also up in arms about the Hourigan development, even though it is multiple blocks to the northeast and well outside of the zone of influence that could or should be attributed to Legends. "Their" community - Jesus Christ, they talk like they own it and represent it. These folks simply want the development to stop and for "their" community to be left as it is. PURE Richmond NIMBYism at it's worst. They DON'T WANT RICHMOND -- and specifically Manchester -- TO GROW. PERIOD. Clear as day by what they themselves are saying.

This makes me wonder: are they going to come out barking if/when Tom Papa decides to go forward with South Falls II and/or III?  And as has been asked here before - WHERE were they previously when the Avery Hall property was originally slated to be occupied by the twin-building River's Edge II?  Yes - Avery Hall is going to build nearly 200 more apartments on the site than the original developer was - but for Christ's sake- consider all the benefit more people in Manchester will bring to local businesses (and by extension, all the new businesses that will come to Manchester!!!) - all of the vitality, street life, activity. The Manchester of five or so years from now -- complete with the Avery Hall towers, the Hourigan development, and the other residential projects in the pipeline -and by extension, a larger population base, will be SO MUCH BETTER -and SO MORE ALIVE than it is now. CITIES GROW!!! CITIES EVOLVE!!! CITIES CHANGE!! Manchester is leading the charge toward the future of the AMAZING city Richmond is in the verge of becoming!

I DO wish Avery Hall would get off the stick and file the SUP. The sooner this project breaks ground - and the sooner that Hourigan knocks down the Silos and starts work on THEIR project - the MUCH better I will feel. It's stuff like this that gives me tremendous anxiety and makes it excruciatingly difficult at times to stay happy/excited about the good news that keeps popping up about potential developments in Richmond.

Edited September 22, 2022 by I miss RVA

[BigBobbyG]

 @eandslee@I miss RVA Do y’all have any suggestions on how to counter these NIMBYS? Unfortunately I recently moved to Northside from Manchester so I’m no longer a direct constituent but I was thinking about sending an email to Ellen Robertson and the Manchester Alliance saying that I support the project (in an effort to cancel out the naysayers). But I’m definitely open to suggestions! 

[I miss RVA]

17 minutes ago, BigBobbyG said:

 @eandslee@I miss RVA Do y’all have any suggestions on how to counter these NIMBYS? Unfortunately I recently moved to Northside from Manchester so I’m no longer a direct constituent but I was thinking about sending an email to Ellen Robertson and the Manchester Alliance saying that I support the project (in an effort to cancel out the naysayers). But I’m definitely open to suggestions! 

Absolutely get involved. Write to them and voice not only your support of the project but also voice your opposition to their (Manchester Alliance, etc.) position opposing it. Is Ellen Robertson the City Council rep for that district? I would also write to Avery Hall (I think we have their contact info posted on here - I wrote to them when the project was first announced stating that I support the project) - just let them know you are 100% support of the project. Make your voice heard!

The city planners office as well - or whoever would be handling the SUP. Voice your support to whomever you possibly can.

Edited September 22, 2022 by I miss RVA

[plain]

The fact that the NIMBYs are clearly forgetting where they live in the first place (Richmond, a CITY that was one of the most densely populated cities in the early 1900's) makes me think that they're bored with their lives and just want to create a gripe with any and everything. I bet half of them never been to Legends a day in their life or even drink beer for that matter. 

 

What they obviously are not realizing is that with more population comes more amenities, like............ a grocery store......

[Hike]

One of the complaints that I find amusing is the “it’s overcrowding”argument. Not that long ago, Manchester was mostly garages, storage, factories, warehouses, etc., it only started to heat up when Cochrane passed and sold the land. Unless people have been living under a rock, when this land sold, the first thing the sale was said to do, and was/is repeated often, is that Manchester is going to develop, grow, expand, build. So now, I’d bet 95% of the residents are new to the area and part of this new growth and part of the “overcrowding”, and for them it was fine to move to Manchester, but now,  it’s too many. 

Edited September 22, 2022 by Hike

[vaceltic]

I think the “overcrowding” argument is a red herring for folks that bought expensive condos nearby (perhaps in a short, two-story grey brick building?).

[I miss RVA]

@plain @Hike @vaceltic -- VERY well said, gentlemen, on all accounts! I couldn't agree more! 

[wrldcoupe4]

Looks like the BizSense folks are a big fan of Legend Brown Ale. 2 straight weekly guest commentators opposed to the Avery Hill project. 
 

https://richmondbizsense.com/2022/09/23/guest-commentary-a-manchester-view-from-manchester/

this person avoids the fact that there is an approved development plan for this site already. The developer can just build that instead of what they are proposing. So, the density is coming regardless. Therefore it seems their gripes are primarily to do with the city’s failures to address basic infrastructure, green space, street trees traffic speed, etc. Welcome to the city of Richmond. 

[rjp212]

Ugh!  I pointed out all the flaws in his commentary.  I’m over NIMBYs. 

[Brent114]

Thanks for doing that.    I chimed in about the traffic concern.  So stupid.     

[Flood Zone]

Yeah, that whole piece is rubbish.

[eandslee]

I think this piece was written specifically to get “I Miss RVA” spun up.  Expect to see him respond once he wakes up with a long post shooting this guy (and his opinions) down.  I can’t wait!!   Happy Friday everyone!

[Hike]

Thoughts I had after reading this and what could be factors behind their concerns. I do think the basic infrastructure concerns seem appropriate, but yeah, that’s much of RVA.

Buyer’s remorse,  how many people currently own in Manchester, do renters have the same concerns as an owner, my assumption is that renters are temporary and will move, have less “invested” 

Buyer fatigue, on going constant construction, no end in sight, wish it was over, it’s all disorganized and no order during these times. 

Buyer’s remorse II, bought here and want it to stay the same, not sure what the future looks like and the unknown is frightening. 
 

Parks needed, there’s a flood wall and trails that literally connect to the entire James river park system within 250 feet of everyone in Manchester. There’s more green space east and west with miles to walk, most cities would die to have this, there’s wildlife, fish, canoeing, kayaking, SUP, swim, run, hike, walk out front door, don’t take your car, don’t even look at it, get on trail, adventure starts.

 

 

[Icetera]

Random thought: I wonder if an ALDI could fit on the Legend Brewing parcel?

[I miss RVA]

I was waiting for one of the other shoes to drop. I thought it would be Prof. Slipek kvetching and moaning but now this clown (Joe Yates) gets up there and spews utter garbage. I'm SO glad to see the overwhelming pushback in the commentary to the guest piece. 

Folks - I can't say this strongly or loudly enough - every damn last one of us needs to MAKE OUR SUPPORT for this project HEARD AND KNOWN within the chambers of City Hall. If anything useful came out of this Joe Yates dumpster fire commentary piece it's that something we've known all along is happening: the NIMBYs there are trying to build a groundswell of protest and opposition with which to hit the city during the SUP process. That means that WE ABSOLUTELY MUST organize to COUNTERACT their opposition! I've already emailed in my support - and not living in Richmond, aside from that, there's only so much I can do. But particularly for ya'll who are there - and ESPECIALLY those of you you live in Manchester, PLEASE COME OUT IN FORCE to support this project!! 

DO NOT LET THE NIMBYS WIN!!! WE NEED THIS DEVELOPMENT BUILT AT ALL COSTS - and I frankly don't give a damn WHAT it takes to get it built - we MUST HAVE IT BUILT!!

Please, folks, keep on top of the SUP process AND MAKE YOUR VOICES HEARD!!!

Edited September 23, 2022 by I miss RVA

[Virginian11]

1 hour ago, Icetera said:

Random thought: I wonder if an ALDI could fit on the Legend Brewing parcel?

I would love to see another 15-20 story tower on top of Aldi right where legends pathetic kitchen sits.

[Hike]

1 hour ago, Icetera said:

Random thought: I wonder if an ALDI could fit on the Legend Brewing parcel?

When driving down broad street years ago in short pump area,  when there were still farms, fields, etc. I said to my wife, oh, I feel bad for them, they lose their land and home, but she reminded me, they’re getting rich, typically more than market value, they’re going to be just fine. Why am I saying this, because why doesn’t legend sell, take the millions and start over, quit, get the house on the lake, move away to the dream place,  build a better brewery, etc. just cash in?

[whw53]

Aldi is great. I think they are probably the only realistic grocery contender for Manchester at this time. I wish Food Lion had an urban or smaller model - they'd be a reasonable fit too. 

Edited September 23, 2022 by whw53

[rjp212]

I could see an Amazon Fresh.  They seem to be expanding in NoVA and the "Whole Foods" near Chesterfield Town Center looks more like an Amazon Fresh in the renderings.   

 

Here's one in Seattle that would do just fine here.

 

[eandslee]

Went to Amazon Fresh the other day up here in Springfield for the first time and was not impressed. Very expensive and their selection was surprisingly lacking. I expected so much more from an online retailer that seems to have it all!

[I miss RVA]

I guess the NIMBY trolls who read Richmond BizSense needed a second wind - there are still a few smoldering embers over comments made on the RBS story re: the Avery Hall project going on today. Wowwww... 

Edited September 26, 2022 by I miss RVA