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Next phase of Capitol View has renderings released today. On Oct. 6 Northwest Mutual, Boyle Investment, and Northwood Ravin will go before Downtown Code Design Review Committee seeking some modificati

Looks like a grocery store Free! Along with flowers for the ladies and lots of food samples 

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Someone needs to put a Chik Fil A in the ground level of one of the Capital View buildings and make a fortune.  

 

This Chicago location generates $5,000,000+ / a month revenue

 

lPbZc22.jpg

They have one inside the ATT tower, and it has been there for at least 15 years.

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Doing the math on this makes it seem a tad unreasonable. $5,000,000 a month over 27 days(Sundays closed remember) would be roughly $185,000 a day. Assuming each customer spends $10(some will, some won't), this comes out to roughly 18,500 customers each and every day. If we assume that customers are perfectly spaced out between 6Am to 10PM this equates to roughly 1150 customers an hour. Which means they would need to service 19.3 customers a minute. Even if they have 8 registers going at once, this would be each customer interaction from ordering to payment would need to take 25 seconds.

 

Point being, when a number sounds too high to be true, it most likely is.

Maybe the statistic is supposed to say $5 million a year. It looks like the average store is around 3 million a year. So the $5 million would seem more reasonable along that figure. All I know is I love Chick Fil-A but I hate going there around meal times because there are billions of people there. The traffic around the Brentwood location is crazy due to the drive-thru lines. 

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Maybe the statistic is supposed to say $5 million a year. It looks like the average store is around 3 million a year. So the $5 million would seem more reasonable along that figure. All I know is I love Chick Fil-A but I hate going there around meal times because there are billions of people there. The traffic around the Brentwood location is crazy due to the drive-thru lines

 

...and that's one thing that planning commissions (or whatever local or county agency handles this) almost never address, no matter the county.

 

Depending on where they are, cars sometimes are backed up to the street, with ass-ends of cars jutting out edgewise into the through-lanes.  And depending on the menu time for the most popular fast-food joints, it could be early-mid morning (breakfast), when traffic is at its worst, or mid-day.  As much as I love Chick-Fil-A and some others, I'd rather just get off my fat-ass and walk in, rather than entangle with the drive-through snare.

-==-

Edited by rookzie
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Agreed, and it's the most infuriating thing about the design of the McDonald's at 12th and Broadway. Most will probably remember that the city and McDonald's corporate duked it out over the post-fire rebuild planning and the requirements of the UDO and Downtown Code. McDonald's eventually won out and built the suburban style building of which it is so fond. One of the most contentious issues was that of the drive-thru layout and the resulting traffic management and pedestrian safety concerns. The city wanted to push the building up to the street along Broadway and move all ingress/egress to 12th, fearing that having cars entering/exiting from two separate, busy streets would cause traffic backups. There were also concerns for pedestrian safety, as the current design has cars wrapping all the way around the building--the only way to walk inside is through vehicle traffic. McDonald's wanted to keep the status quo. And of course, all of the concerns turned into reality. This is what we have now:

 

Capture.PNG

 

 

Drive-thru traffic will enter from Broadway, get stuck in line waiting or merging with traffic from the 12th Ave entrance, and then both block the sidewalk and back up traffic in the right lane on Broadway causing a cascading effect as vehicles try to maneuver around the line. It also inhibits cars parked on the north side parking lot from exiting, creating even more traffic backups. It will only continue to get worse.

 

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Why didn't the city just tell mcdonalds to F off if they refused to abide by the design guidelines? It's not like this city is so desperate for development that we need to give in to the whims of a stand alone mcdonalds franchise.

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Clarifying what happened with the McDonald's.  They decided to refurb the existing building to avoid having to conform to the UDO. As a compromise, they added a new building segment to the 12th Avenue side to bump it a little closer to the street.  If they had demolished the entire building after the fire, they would have had to conform to the UDO.  Similar situation with the diner, as far as that goes.

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Agreed, and it's the most infuriating thing about the design of the McDonald's at 12th and Broadway. Most will probably remember that the city and McDonald's corporate duked it out over the post-fire rebuild planning and the requirements of the UDO and Downtown Code. McDonald's eventually won out and built the suburban style building of which it is so fond. One of the most contentious issues was that of the drive-thru layout and the resulting traffic management and pedestrian safety concerns. The city wanted to push the building up to the street along Broadway and move all ingress/egress to 12th, fearing that having cars entering/exiting from two separate, busy streets would cause traffic backups. There were also concerns for pedestrian safety, as the current design has cars wrapping all the way around the building--the only way to walk inside is through vehicle traffic. McDonald's wanted to keep the status quo. And of course, all of the concerns turned into reality. This is what we have now:

...

...

Drive-thru traffic will enter from Broadway, get stuck in line waiting or merging with traffic from the 12th Ave entrance, and then both block the sidewalk and back up traffic in the right lane on Broadway causing a cascading effect as vehicles try to maneuver around the line. It also inhibits cars parked on the north side parking lot from exiting, creating even more traffic backups. It will only continue to get worse.

 

Thanks for that quintessential illustration and example.  That MickeyDee set-up is similar to some others I've seen as well, but this one?  Puh-leeze!  That aerial tells it all, replete with "grease" trails (automotive fluids) and tire grime in close proximity with an primary core arterial and an overcapacity connector street, all capped off with Interstate-fed gouging mouths, and with the likes of new high rises in a most prolifically developing district!

 

This is a case just short of being an "infinite recursion" ─ a vicious circle,  as it were (and as it is literally).

-==-

Edited by rookzie
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Wow, actually examining that aerial shot makes me question the sanity of the planners McDonald's has working for them. There is literally no good way to walk in to that restaurant, even if you parked there.

 

I will never, ever eat at that place (not that I eat a lot of McDonald's anyway), or any of the other restaurants owned by that franchisee if I can determine who they are.

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I could care less about McDonalds and I agree an urban design would have been preferred, but the analysis of the traffic flow of this location is incorrect. Due to a substantial curb (you can see it in the photo) cars are NOT able to enter the drive-thru from Broadway without completely circling the building and entering the drive-thru lanes traveling westward. If there is any backup on Broadway it is just from a car turning into McD's but not waiting to merge into a drive-thru line. Now the observation about pedestrian frogger is accurate!

 

 

 

 

 

Drive-thru traffic will enter from Broadway, get stuck in line waiting or merging with traffic from the 12th Ave entrance, and then both block the sidewalk and back up traffic in the right lane on Broadway causing a cascading effect as vehicles try to maneuver around the line. It also inhibits cars parked on the north side parking lot from exiting, creating even more traffic backups. It will only continue to get worse.

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I could care less about McDonalds and I agree an urban design would have been preferred, but the analysis of the traffic flow of this location. Due to a substantial curb (you can see it in the photo) cars are NOT able to enter the drive way from Broadway without completely circling the building and entering the drive-thru lanes traveling westward. If there is any backup on Broadway it is just from a car turning into McD's but not waiting to merge into a drive-thru line. Now the observation about pedestrian frogger is accurate!

 

Yes, I was thinking about that loop-back movement of cars entering from Broad and either headed to the drive-through, or most likely just to park, but even so, any such cars from the Broad entrance  have to compete with cars entering from 12th, south- or northbound.  12th is bad enough being as narrow as it is ─ one lane each direction ─ with an extended length northbound left-turn-onto-Broad lane, right smack along the curb ramps to M-D's, no doubt with northbound cars in that turn lane "stalling" for a chance to turn into the entrance from the east side.  I've even observed northbound cars cheat and take their chances to go the wrong way on the southbound lane, when the left-turn lane is backed up, so they come from from behind and floor it, in an attempt to "beat" it to the entrance-way before any oncoming cars approach.  Add to that chicanery, the entrance to the busy Super-TigerMart Exxon across 12th.

 

I'm not suggesting what could have been done otherwise, much less how it could have been done, but I would have given deference foremost to pedestrians as patrons and as passers-by, with this particular M-D's.

-==-

Edited by rookzie
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I could care less about McDonalds and I agree an urban design would have been preferred, but the analysis of the traffic flow of this location is incorrect. Due to a substantial curb (you can see it in the photo) cars are NOT able to enter the drive-thru from Broadway without completely circling the building and entering the drive-thru lanes traveling westward. If there is any backup on Broadway it is just from a car turning into McD's but not waiting to merge into a drive-thru line. Now the observation about pedestrian frogger is accurate!

 

 

Sorry, but you are 100% wrong. There is absolutely no curb whatsoever. What you are interpreting as a curb in the satellite image is merely a painted area, and one that is simply ignored by the vast majority of drive-thru visitors. I drive past this McDonald's every day and observe the issues with my own two eyes. This is not some assumption of a problem from 400 miles up, it is the statement of a real, actual traffic issue created entirely by (willfully) poor planning. I encourage you to go see for yourself, though I would be wary of aggressive drivers attempting westbound left turns out of the restaurant's Broadway exit--I've experienced several near-misses myself.

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Doing the math on this makes it seem a tad unreasonable. $5,000,000 a month over 27 days(Sundays closed remember) would be roughly $185,000 a day. Assuming each customer spends $10(some will, some won't), this comes out to roughly 18,500 customers each and every day. If we assume that customers are perfectly spaced out between 6Am to 10PM this equates to roughly 1150 customers an hour. Which means they would need to service 19.3 customers a minute. Even if they have 8 registers going at once, this would be each customer interaction from ordering to payment would need to take 25 seconds.

 

Point being, when a number sounds too high to be true, it most likely is.

That Chik Fil A makes their money via CATERING ORDERS to downtown firms, something you completely left off in your little imagination revenue equation.  Thanks.

Edited by HGMIII
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That Chik Fil A makes their money via CATERING ORDERS to downtown firms, something you completely left off in your little imagination revenue equation.  Thanks.

 

The equation is definitely real, whether its correct or not I have no idea. But it was meant to show the silliness of the number. You are posting angrily today! Let's assume 75% of the orders are catering. That makes the situation even more absurd. Because 75% of your business will be between 10:30 and 1. IMAGINE how large a kitchen serving around 13,000 people between those hours would be! Also, this store ALONE would be worth 1.2% of CFA's gross sales. which is roughly 22.2x the average store!

 

If we assume a value of .5x sales, this one restaurant is worth $30 million!!

 

But whatever, I hope it does do $60 million annually, the franchisee would be getting rich and good for him.

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Clarifying what happened with the McDonald's.  They decided to refurb the existing building to avoid having to conform to the UDO. As a compromise, they added a new building segment to the 12th Avenue side to bump it a little closer to the street.  If they had demolished the entire building after the fire, they would have had to conform to the UDO.  Similar situation with the diner, as far as that goes.

Sound like a bulldozer needed to appear out of nowhere in the middle of the night

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  • dmillsphoto changed the title to Capitol View Northwestern Mutual/HCA 32 acres of mixed use | UC

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