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Republican National Convention in Charlotte


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1 hour ago, elrodvt said:

^I agree.

Does anyone know who decides though and are the criteria public?

The criteria is public for the City I work for.  I'm in charge of issuing special event permits for the City, these include permits for marches, rallies, etc.  Luckily I haven't had to deal with they types of rallies mentioned above but I'm sure we would handle them the same as other applications we receive.  Basically, for anything that is going to happen on public property the applicant must obtain insurance, pay for police,  meet certain requirements laid out by the City, etc.  For events that are determined to be controversial, we would typically encourage them to be in places where the City can ensure protection for both the event holder as well as any protesters, typically places away from busy, confined areas.    Now not everyone goes through this process, sometimes these rallies are "spontaneous" and the City has deescalate the situation if deemed necessary, luckily these have been peaceful demonstrations that haven't caused any issues, it also helps that our police department is very mindful of the rights people have plus work very closely with the local community.   The City is also very conscientious to make sure the freedom of speech isn't hindered, with that said, loud speakers and such can be banned during events.    There are a lot of other things that the City takes into account for special events that I could write pages and pages on, most of it is common sense stuff but it gives the City a lot of wiggle room when dealing with controversial events. 

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^ Given that none of the revenue is likely to materialize anywhere, its starting to look like this worked out as well as it possibly could have for Charlotte. We got a bunch of publicity (pre Cov

Think I can speak for Charlotte when I say  

"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend." - Thomas Jefferson to William Hamilton, April 22, 1800 I live by this

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On 7/30/2018 at 10:34 PM, elrodvt said:

OTH I am for letting anyone have a chance to hold a rally and speak their mind as long as it is not overtly racist or discriminatory. No klan or anti gay stuff. Tough to arbitrate as FB is finding out.

Heh.  So you're for freedom of speech...that you agree with.    That's not how it works.   Well, that's how it worked in some places in the past but I'm not sure you understand that fully.  History is our best teacher...   Freedom of speech is not free from consequences but I sure as hell don't want to live in a society where a group of people armed with nothing but loud voices and powered by political correctness gets to decide what can and can't be talked about in public.  

If someone wants to say racist, anti-gay remarks or anti-police remarks you want that to be on the biggest stage and under the brightest spotlight.    That's how you end evil.  You expose it rather than pushing it away.   You confront it rather than trying to down it out.    I think if white supremacists or antifa or the blue man group want to rally, let them.  Don't allow them to cover their face.  Put them in a dedicated area.  Build a stage.  Setup a spotlight and turn on the camera.   

 

 

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4 hours ago, cjd5050 said:

Heh.  So you're for freedom of speech...that you agree with.    That's not how it works.   Well, that's how it worked in some places in the past but I'm not sure you understand that fully.  History is our best teacher...   Freedom of speech is not free from consequences but I sure as hell don't want to live in a society where a group of people armed with nothing but loud voices and powered by political correctness gets to decide what can and can't be talked about in public.  

If someone wants to say racist, anti-gay remarks or anti-police remarks you want that to be on the biggest stage and under the brightest spotlight.    That's how you end evil.  You expose it rather than pushing it away.   You confront it rather than trying to down it out.    I think if white supremacists or antifa or the blue man group want to rally, let them.  Don't allow them to cover their face.  Put them in a dedicated area.  Build a stage.  Setup a spotlight and turn on the camera.   

 

 

So you think it was a good idea to give a permit for the Charlottesville white supremacist march through town? @jtmonk has a good post above on what goes into the planning. Obviously these are hard decisions. But they are made all the time in our city via who gets permits for rally's and where. I for one would not want to watch our police force clash with white supremacists and all the people they inflamed on the nightly news. Won't be good for the city at all. 

BTW, it's not that hard to read someones questions without downvoting the post. I didn't insult other forum members or rant using fowl language. I guess I should just count on your downvotes as a badge of honor at this point.

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1 hour ago, elrodvt said:

So you think it was a good idea to give a permit for the Charlottesville white supremacist march through town? @jtmonk has a good post above on what goes into the planning. Obviously these are hard decisions. But they are made all the time in our city via who gets permits for rally's and where. I for one would not want to watch our police force clash with white supremacists and all the people they inflamed on the nightly news. Won't be good for the city at all. 

I think Freedom of Speech is a right and it's not always pretty.   I also didn't suggest that any group be allowed to march through town.   I absolutely don't want people like you controlling what can and can't be said as that's a very dangerous slope.  

1 hour ago, elrodvt said:

BTW, it's not that hard to read someones questions without downvoting the post. I didn't insult other forum members or rant using fowl language. I guess I should just count on your downvotes as a badge of honor at this point.

This again?  Remember when you whined about me downvoting you without leaving a comment and I then showed you how you did the same exact thing before and continue to do?   You can take my downvotes any way you like but your hypocrisy is honestly impressive.  Sad but still impressive.  

The insulting that goes on in this forum is widespread but the majority of it is to directed to people who are not here.  I guess it's easier for cowards to fight shadows and all.   Your biggest challenge is that you actually think of yourself as more righteous than you actually are and if you're uncomfortable with a direct reply to your words then I am not sure what to say.  

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On 7/31/2018 at 9:05 AM, elrodvt said:

^I agree.

Does anyone know who decides though and are the criteria public?

The Constitution decided.

Charlottesville tried to have the Unite the Right rally moved to a park a mile outside of downtown. The ACLU sued on behalf of Unite the Right and a Federal Judge agreed.

Liberal Portland continues to issue permits over and over to a right wing group because of the Constitution, despite resident frustration. Despite the rallies getting violent, you can't deny future permits due to past permit behavior. https://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2018/07/06/21103384/why-does-the-city-keep-letting-patriot-prayer-to-hold-rallies-it-doesnt-have-a-choice

If Neo-Nazis want to protest on the sidewalk, there isn't anything we can do unless they start breaking laws like walking in traffic or damage property. A Picketing Notice is required if you will have more than 50 people, but it is just a formality to help the police know how many cops should be on hand to watch people picket on the sidewalk.

Now if they want to use a park, a permit is required. Because Marshall Park is well documented as a place of protest, you'd have to have security reasons to deny the use of that park and accommodate elsewhere. Also, you'd have to deny the park to other groups (like protestors against Trump), as well.

If a Neo Nazi permit is denied, everybody's permit has to be denied. A judge ruled the Charlottesville rally couldn't move the Unite the Right group, because the city let the counter protest permit stand in the downtown.

If we try to pick favorites, the ACLU will likely sue and we'll lose just like Charlottesville did.

Edited by CLT2014
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2 hours ago, kickazzz2000 said:

People like you are not interested in discussion with assholes.  

Sniff.  Watch out, there are some here who are really sensitive about words.    I on the other hand fully support your right to your opinion.

 

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5 hours ago, cjd5050 said:

I think Freedom of Speech is a right and it's not always pretty.   I also didn't suggest that any group be allowed to march through town.   I absolutely don't want people like you controlling what can and can't be said as that's a very dangerous slope.  

This again?  Remember when you whined about me downvoting you without leaving a comment and I then showed you how you did the same exact thing before and continue to do?   You can take my downvotes any way you like but your hypocrisy is honestly impressive.  Sad but still impressive.  

The insulting that goes on in this forum is widespread but the majority of it is to directed to people who are not here.  I guess it's easier for cowards to fight shadows and all.   Your biggest challenge is that you actually think of yourself as more righteous than you actually are and if you're uncomfortable with a direct reply to your words then I am not sure what to say.  

I didn't respond to your prior post because it made no sense and I know you will not change. The downvotes you received were for being insulting and hyper-aggressive and basically ranting towards people.. I don't think it requires a  lot of thought to understand.

In the post above I asked what i thought was an interesting question, I didn't mean to insult anyone, and I got some good responses. The post referred to how difficult this subject was, my mixed feelings and then I gave the facebook example. I really don't care about your opinion to be honest. I was hoping for some intelligent responses and of course yours get mixed in sometimes. I can ignore them.

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17 hours ago, cjd5050 said:

Sniff.  Watch out, there are some here who are really sensitive about words.    I on the other hand fully support your right to your opinion.

It’s not a “sensitivity about words”... it’s a desire for decency.

People can disagree vehemently, but not insult, and the conversations have the potential for learning, and the sharing of perspective and knowledge. There is a crucial moment in dialogue where one can choose to add to the conversation, or one can choose to detract and devolve into insults and name-calling. Nothing gets accomplished with the second, but the first holds the potential for great growth and progress. 

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20 hours ago, Nick2 said:

Why is it so hard for people to discuss politics and be civil at the same time?

Beats the heck out of me. I'd rather see Russians voting than Democrats. But I'll still have a beer with a Democrat. Doesn't mean we can't be friends.

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