CONSTRUCTION THREAD: Perimeter Condominiums - Rhett and Markley

[gman430]

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/2019/09/05/greenville-sc-new-markley-street-hotel-city-design-approval/2218960001/

[vicupstate]

DRB approved the site plan tonight. The informal review of the design received rave reviews from the board  as well. 

The developer is based out of Chicago. They intend to operate the hotel themselves as a 'lifestyle' hotel.  It is too many rooms to be considered 'boutique'.  All employees and art will be locally sourced. 

[gman430]

32 minutes ago, vicupstate said:

DRB approved the site plan tonight. The informal review of the design received rave reviews from the board  as well. 

The developer is based out of Chicago. They intend to operate the hotel themselves as a 'lifestyle' hotel.  It is too many rooms to be considered 'boutique'.  All employees and art will be locally sourced. 

So it’s not a chain then. Sounds like the Peacock.  

[vicupstate]

The Peacock was a pipe dream of someone with no experience building or operating a hotel. This group has hotels all over the country.

[distortedlogic]

2 hours ago, vicupstate said:

The Peacock was a pipe dream of someone with no experience building or operating a hotel. This group has hotels all over the country.

It was a nice looking building though. Interestingly, I bet it would have worked today, with the demand we've seen in hotel rooms.

[gman430]

10 hours ago, vicupstate said:

The Peacock was a pipe dream of someone with no experience building or operating a hotel. This group has hotels all over the country.

Who is the developer? Do they have a website with what hotels they have built? 

[vicupstate]

On 8/23/2019 at 1:22 PM, vicupstate said:

^^ The Principal that is the applicant appears to own or manage Holiday Inn, Holiday Inn Express, Marriott, Hampton Inn, Homewood Suites, Radison and Hilton properties.

Hostmark Hospitality     

Posting again

[gman430]

Saw city officials and nicely dressed guys looking at the site with blueprints earlier today. 

[Den2Gvl]

Thought this was interesting. I wonder if the same thing would ever happen in Greenville down the road...

https://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/local/2019/09/24/asheville-city-council-bans-hotel-construction-1-year-moratorium-tourism/2434254001/

[GvilleSC]

3 minutes ago, Den2Gvl said:

Thought this was interesting. I wonder if the same thing would ever happen in Greenville down the road...

https://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/local/2019/09/24/asheville-city-council-bans-hotel-construction-1-year-moratorium-tourism/2434254001/

That's really interesting! I don't think Greenville is anywhere near this point. And, I must wonder what the lasting impacts of Asheville's process will be. There's potentially some good that can come of them studying, creating, and implementing strong planning regulations. However, there's also a chance that no meaningful regulations result, and they hurt one of their biggest industries: tourism. I hope to follow this closely. Thanks for sharing with the group!

[vicupstate]

Charleston is going down this path as well. No moratoriums but lots of 'overlays', etc. to restrict the areas that can be used for hotels and such. Even that doesn't seem to have had a lot of impact, so they are revisiting the issue. 

I might could see something like this proposed in a few more years, but not as likely to actually be implemented.    

[gman430]

19 minutes ago, Den2Gvl said:

Thought this was interesting. I wonder if the same thing would ever happen in Greenville down the road...

https://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/local/2019/09/24/asheville-city-council-bans-hotel-construction-1-year-moratorium-tourism/2434254001/

Gosh I hope not. Talk about hindering economic development. You can definitely tell Asheville is a liberal/hippie city going off the residents comments. Lol. These developers have done their studies and due diligence. They know whether their project will be successful or not. 

[GvilleSC]

12 minutes ago, vicupstate said:

Charleston is going down this path as well. No moratoriums but lots of 'overlays', etc. to restrict the areas that can be used for hotels and such. Even that doesn't seem to have had a lot of impact, so they are revisiting the issue. 

I might could see something like this proposed in a few more years, but not as likely to actually be implemented.    

Charleston needs to designate a high-rise district (perhaps with limited height), but something to alleviate the pressure on the peninsula.

Granted, at a very different scale, but we've seen and continue to see this in DC (where there is literally a finite amount of space that can eventually be built). It's having large, negative impacts on affordability. To be fair, DC has lots of issue to fix right now. Charleston needs to avoid landing in a similar situation. 

[vicupstate]

36 minutes ago, gman430 said:

Gosh I hope not. Talk about hindering economic development. You can definitely tell Asheville is a liberal/hippie city going off the residents comments. Lol. These developers have done their studies and due diligence. They know whether their project will be successful or not. 

The issue isn't whether the hotels will be successful, but how much is too much in terms of visitors and the impact they have.  If the impact is indeed too much (not saying that it is , but conceding the point for a moment), then the solution is not to stop the construction of hotels but to stop advertising, etc. to bring in visitors. 

If you invite guests over, you need to make sure you have the space to accommodate them.      

[vicupstate]

40 minutes ago, GvilleSC said:

Charleston needs to designate a high-rise district (perhaps with limited height), but something to alleviate the pressure on the peninsula.

Granted, at a very different scale, but we've seen and continue to see this in DC (where there is literally a finite amount of space that can eventually be built). It's having large, negative impacts on affordability. To be fair, DC has lots of issue to fix right now. Charleston needs to avoid landing in a similar situation. 

Charleston already regulates the height of everything on the peninsula, and has for many years. As gentrification spread upward, the allowed heights in the Meeting/King corridor were increased.  Despite that, affordability of housing and  lodging has continued to decline.  Limiting new supply however, would only make that worse, IMO. 

In my mind it would make more sense for Charleston to require height MINIMUMS, in the upper peninsula, particularly with projects such as Magnolia.         

[Den2Gvl]

38 minutes ago, GvilleSC said:

Charleston needs to designate a high-rise district (perhaps with limited height), but something to alleviate the pressure on the peninsula.

Granted, at a very different scale, but we've seen and continue to see this in DC (where there is literally a finite amount of space that can eventually be built). It's having large, negative impacts on affordability. To be fair, DC has lots of issue to fix right now. Charleston needs to avoid landing in a similar situation. 

I've always thought the same about Charleston. It seems like they're trying to do something like that with their "NoMo" (North Morrison) area though. Which is causing more gentrification I'm sure. 

[GvilleSC]

9 minutes ago, vicupstate said:

Charleston already regulates the height of everything on the peninsula, and has for many years. As gentrification spread upward, the allowed heights in the Meeting/King corridor were increased.  Despite that, affordability of housing and  lodging has continued to decline.  Limiting new supply however, would only make that worse, IMO. 

In my mind it would make more sense for Charleston to require height MINIMUMS, in the upper peninsula, particularly with projects such as Magnolia.         

Exactly.

[Spero]

4 minutes ago, Den2Gvl said:

I've always thought the same about Charleston. It seems like they're trying to do something like that with their "NoMo" (North Morrison) area though. Which is causing more gentrification I'm sure. 

They have and are, the new planning code allows for increased height in basically the North Morrison area in exchange for developer concessions like green roofs and modified setbacks. It will never be like DC’s Arlington or Paris’ La Défense but there’s already a lot more height going in there

[ausrutherford]

Citadel Mall owner is going to propose 25 stories as a maximum under a proposed PD with the mall's redevelopment plan.

We will see if Charleston gives in.

The owner wants to attract a big HQ.

And I hope that Greenville does not try to ban hotels.

They are a gold mine for tax revenues. Property taxes are extremely high, hospitality tax, even down to construction fees.

[apaladin]

Bad timing for the Asheville decision. In another year if it doesn't look like Trump is going to be re-elected the economy will be slow and then in the tank and then Asheville will be begging for someone to build something. Don't want to get a political argument started.  

[distortedlogic]

Doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Is says all the current under construction and planned hotels can continue, which totals 2700 rooms. It just says now  new ones will not be approved for one year.  This means all the current ones will continue to come online over the next year and beyond. It just means not as many will be coming out in a couple of years from now. By then, after 2700 rooms, the market may need  a breather any way. 

[gman430]

1 hour ago, distortedlogic said:

Doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Is says all the current under construction and planned hotels can continue, which totals 2700 rooms. It just says now  new ones will not be approved for one year.  This means all the current ones will continue to come online over the next year and beyond. It just means not as many will be coming out in a couple of years from now. By then, after 2700 rooms, the market may need  a breather any way. 

Honestly, that is a ton of new hotel rooms. Way more than what is planned in Greenville. However, putting any sort of memorandum on new development could give developers cold feet. And if the economy slips back into a recession it might be a lot harder for them to get financing a year from now than today. 

[GvilleSC]

13 hours ago, ausrutherford said:

Citadel Mall owner is going to propose 25 stories as a maximum under a proposed PD with the mall's redevelopment plan.

We will see if Charleston gives in.

That would be pretty remarkable, granted I'm not sold on the location. I'd love to discuss more of this, but I don't think this is the right thread to debate Charleston's height and zoning regulations. Also, just noting that this is more action than Charleston has seen on UP all year (and it's not even in their forum).  

Edited September 26, 2019 by GvilleSC

[gman430]

DRB signs back up again. 

[vicupstate]

100 Markley Street Hotel