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vicupstate

Proposal: Downtown Convention Center

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What is the total building square footage and exhibit space?  How much is dedicated to the museums? For instance, Columbia Conv Center is 142k sq feet in total with only 25k feet of exhibit space (as of today....they are planning to add 75k sq feet).  Is this really a museum with exhibition space?

Why brand this as South Carolina and not Greenville?  Greenville seems to be fronting most of the money, why not put Greenville on the building? 

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24 minutes ago, CLT_sc said:

What is the total building square footage and exhibit space?  How much is dedicated to the museums? For instance, Columbia Conv Center is 142k sq feet in total with only 25k feet of exhibit space (as of today....they are planning to add 75k sq feet).  Is this really a museum with exhibition space?

Why brand this as South Carolina and not Greenville?  Greenville seems to be fronting most of the money, why not put Greenville on the building? 

I don't think that information has been publicly shared, as far as the total building.  I think you are confusing the Conference center usage  with the museum function.  There is a conference center element and the museums as a separate element of the project.  The exhibits for the museums would be controlled by the museums themselves.   

Putting SC on it makes it seem more substantial and also more likely to get the state funding that is required.  The Aquarium  in Charleston is called SC instead of Charleston for that very reason.   

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I was just at a conference at the Embassy Suites Verdae. It has 23K square feet of meeting space and easily accomadated the apx. 200 people who there for training. With this being almost 3x the space, I can see it fitting in meetings/conference with 1000 to 1500 people which is not a market that I think Greenville has really been able to attract. You either get WAY more than you need or not enough. The Hyatt downtown has about 35K square feet for meetings. 

Edited by sptgguy
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1 hour ago, GvilleSC said:

Glad to see the County moving this forward! 

I have mixed feelings on what they're currently calling it (is this permanent?).  I kind of like the state branding on it, but a strong abbreviation would be nice and more easily brandable at first thought. SCACC...? Anyone else have a first impression and reaction?

The final name is currently being worked on. This is just a placeholder. 

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2 minutes ago, vicupstate said:

I don't think that information has been publicly shared, as far as the total building.  I think you are confusing the Conference center usage  with the museum function.  There is a conference center element and the museums as a separate element of the project.  The exhibits for the museums would be controlled by the museums themselves.   

Putting SC on it makes it seem more substantial and also more likely to get the state funding that is required.  The Aquarium  in Charleston is called SC instead of Charleston for that very reason.   

Yea, I am not sure if this is a convention center with a museum or a museum with meeting space.  Based on comparisons, $100mm would seem light for a 65k foot museum and a convention center.  Columbia wants to add space in order to accommodate users who needed larger space.  Their price is north of $60mm for expansion.  

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2 minutes ago, CLT_sc said:

Yea, I am not sure if this is a convention center with a museum or a museum with meeting space.  Based on comparisons, $100mm would seem light for a 65k foot museum and a convention center.  Columbia wants to add space in order to accommodate users who needed larger space.  Their price is north of $60mm for expansion.  

It is decidedly NOT a convention center, right? It's a conference center. 

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1 minute ago, vicupstate said:

It is NOT a Convention Center, it is a Conference Center.   That is what the prior study said was achievable and attainable given the  existing facilities and sites available.  The 65,000 SF is for the CONFERENCE center  NOT  the Museums.  

 

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1 hour ago, GvilleSC said:

It is decidedly NOT a convention center, right? It's a conference center. 

What is the biggest difference between a “conference” center v “convention”?  Would they both not go after the same types of events?    

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1 hour ago, GvilleSC said:

It is decidedly NOT a convention center, right? It's a conference center. 

Vic had the correct quote earlier.  65k is for the "conference center" and the museums would be separate.  It seems like up until this article,  its mainly been referred to as a "convention " center.  I thought  that was the whole point all along was to have " a downtown convention center." To me "conference " center sounds much smaller; one could hold a conference anywhere. Regardless,  this should fill in the gap between the TD center and much smaller venues. 

46 minutes ago, GvilleSC said:

Good info.

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30 minutes ago, CLT_sc said:

Thanks for the clarification....I always imagined this to be a convention center.  Size wise, it is similar to the USC Alumni Center which also serves as a conference center.   

Well, to be clear: the conference space at the Alumni Center is much smaller. USC Alumni Center is 1/3 offices and a Board Room dedicated for use by the Trustees.

But, yes- the entire Alumni Center building is about the same size as one component of this new multi-use development. 

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27 minutes ago, gman430 said:

So did it pass or are we just gonna be left never knowing? 

You’re not going to like the News headline... which, I think is garbage.

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25 minutes ago, GvilleSC said:

You’re not going to like the News headline... which, I think is garbage.

I just read the article and all I have to say is yeesh. Somebody hand me the popcorn. Still not sure why the mayor wants affordable housing at County Square so badly. :dontknow: Honestly I think he just needs to let the issue go. His stance is threatening to kill two major economic development projects totaling $1.5 billion downtown. 

Edited by gman430

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Honestly, can't these people get in a room and  just discuss this jointly. The city council, county council, John Castille, and the new city manager should be able to resolve this in a one hour meeting.  

There is already money set aside for affordable housing from both governments. There is no reason in the world some of that money can't be used to provide affordable housing at county square, without it costing Roco Point a dime.   

I fear Dan Tripp and some of the others are are just fearful of the project being stigmatized because affordable housing is included.  Given our history with similar projects, that is not justified at all.  Ennis Fant's comment is lame. The county votes on zoning  decisions every month, which is the county telling the property owner what they can and can't do with their property. What is the difference here?  It is Fant's district that is most impacted by gentrification to begin with.       

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I see the need for the affordable houseing but also (I do not live in Greenville) do not understand why the mayor has stood by for the past  decade and watch all the high dollar condo/apartment buildings to be built without raising this point too strongly.  Is it because he thinks he can get the cost absorbed by the county and Roco Development and still be able to claim that he stands strong for affordable housing?   

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^^

Greenville has been slow to  address the negative affects of gentrification,  but has made decisive moves in the last two years to start addressing it in a big way.  Most of the projects that have being opening up were planned and approved prior to that.  The McClaren project  is the first private project to reflect this change.  County Square is a  more massive project than the earlier ones combined. If we ignore this opportunity, it will be harder to justify holding the others to a new standard of including affordable and workforce housing.     

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The county needs the county square project more than the city needs the convention center project. I think this makes the city's bargaining position stronger.

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11 hours ago, sptgguy said:

I see the need for the affordable houseing but also (I do not live in Greenville) do not understand why the mayor has stood by for the past  decade and watch all the high dollar condo/apartment buildings to be built without raising this point too strongly.  Is it because he thinks he can get the cost absorbed by the county and Roco Development and still be able to claim that he stands strong for affordable housing?   

It is because under a PD, you can mandate certain restrictions. Example here: workforce housing.

There is are no provisions under State Law that allows municipalities to force workforce housing in general zoning.

 

However, we are a slightly limited Home Rule State...since there are no provisions that allows, likewise there are no provisions that say a municipality can not force workforce housing.

The issue boils down to politics. No municipality has passed regulations forcing workhouse housing for they do not want to be sued over the matter and lose in court.

They want the State Legislature to pass a bill that explicitly allows it first. However, those bills are not welled liked by rural districts.

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