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New County Courthouse


westsider28

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The original plan was to stay in the current courthouse while the new one was built. (I'm pretty certain the new courthouse will be built on the parking lot.)  It was only when the mold got really bad / lawsuit filed that they considered moving.  I think this is probably the right decision.  It will cost less this way, and the new courthouse won't be delayed.

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  • 1 month later...

There was literally no mention in any local media, but the new 1-cent sales tax went into effect on May 1.  So we now have money coming in for this project.

After reading this H-J article about the County's FY 2018/19 budget, I went looking for more details, particularly about capital projects.  So here's the CIP document.  You can see a full facilities funding chart on page 27.  The info specific to the new Judicial Center (page 39) says, "A request for qualifications has been issued for architectural and engineering services. Submissions are due in mid-May and a firm(s) will be selected shortly thereafter so that design work on the new facility can begin in early FY 2018/19."  Here's the funding breakdown below.  City/county admin building is further in the future, but you can see page 29 for those funding details.

newjcfundingchart.JPG.187f8ea6561ef36eb78e386da9199338.JPG

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, maybe not so fast on the design front.  I found this website (http://www.investspartanburg.com/) which is focused on the projects.  The timeline (PDF) shows the design phase for the Courthouse taking 21 months!  It wouldn't be complete until Q1 2020.  Even if that includes public input, DRB approval, etc; that seems extremely long.

100627810_NewCourthousetimeline.thumb.JPG.da654d148757012a529d86cc44be7420.JPG

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  • 4 months later...

There was an update on the new courthouse timeline at the County Council meeting last night.  Design is underway, which will take until 2020. (why so long?!)  They apparently have some conceptual drawings that they weren't ready to share.  They're planning a 6-story building, directly behind the existing building, facing Magnolia, with a traditional design.  And its exterior would feature some combination of “reddish-brick” and precast stone (predictable).

Relocation of employees including Department of Juvenile Justice and accounting will begin in the fourth quarter of this year, followed by the demolition of buildings on Library Street beginning in the third quarter of 2019.  That's interesting because those buildings are north of Library Street.  So are we looking at a parking deck there (on the curve of DM Ave)?  Surely the whole south block isn't needed for the courthouse itself?  Design of a new parking deck on Library will last the entirety of 2019, with construction scheduled to begin in the fourth quarter of next year and lasting up to 12 months. They also talked about Library St as parking deck access only; no thru-traffic.

Then comes demolition of the old jail in the first quarter of 2020 followed by actual construction on the new Judicial Center in the second quarter of 2020. That should last 24-26 months and be finished by 2022.  The demolition of the existing judicial center will take place in 2022, right after the new one is completed, and the construction of a plaza for the new center scheduled to be completed by the first quarter of 2023.

Can anyone conceptualize the site plan for this?  I'm struggling a bit.  It seems like everything is weighted more toward Library Street and less toward St John Street than I expected.  That doesn't seem necessary, unless they're saving that land for the City/County Admin Building (which I thought would be on the current City Hall land)?

Design-wise, I was really hoping for an Art Deco / PWA Moderne (1930s) design, but red-brick involvement likely rules that out.  I just hope it isn't columned, Greek-revival nonsense.  All the modern buildings I've seen with that style do a terrible job with the massing/proportions.  I wouldn't mind seeing something like the Osceola County Courthouse (photo below from a quick Google search on courthouses).

1951524301_OsceolaCH.thumb.jpg.9c8e64ba79d996092ce7d5fa78169235.jpg

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3 hours ago, westsider28 said:

There was an update on the new courthouse timeline at the County Council meeting last night.  Design is underway, which will take until 2020. (why so long?!)  They apparently have some conceptual drawings that they weren't ready to share.  They're planning a 6-story building, directly behind the existing building, facing Magnolia, with a traditional design.  And its exterior would feature some combination of “reddish-brick” and precast stone (predictable).

Relocation of employees including Department of Juvenile Justice and accounting will begin in the fourth quarter of this year, followed by the demolition of buildings on Library Street beginning in the third quarter of 2019.  That's interesting because those buildings are north of Library Street.  So are we looking at a parking deck there (on the curve of DM Ave)?  Surely the whole south block isn't needed for the courthouse itself?  Design of a new parking deck on Library will last the entirety of 2019, with construction scheduled to begin in the fourth quarter of next year and lasting up to 12 months. They also talked about Library St as parking deck access only; no thru-traffic.

Then comes demolition of the old jail in the first quarter of 2020 followed by actual construction on the new Judicial Center in the second quarter of 2020. That should last 24-26 months and be finished by 2022.  The demolition of the existing judicial center will take place in 2022, right after the new one is completed, and the construction of a plaza for the new center scheduled to be completed by the first quarter of 2023.

Can anyone conceptualize the site plan for this?  I'm struggling a bit.  It seems like everything is weighted more toward Library Street and less toward St John Street than I expected.  That doesn't seem necessary, unless they're saving that land for the City/County Admin Building (which I thought would be on the current City Hall land)?

Design-wise, I was really hoping for an Art Deco / PWA Moderne (1930s) design, but red-brick involvement likely rules that out.  I just hope it isn't columned, Greek-revival nonsense.  All the modern buildings I've seen with that style do a terrible job with the massing/proportions.  I wouldn't mind seeing something like the Osceola County Courthouse (photo below from a quick Google search on courthouses).

1951524301_OsceolaCH.thumb.jpg.9c8e64ba79d996092ce7d5fa78169235.jpg

Thanks for the commentary and link but it all leaves me dumbfounded.  Especially the Library Street stuff.  Maybe once we have more information it will become clearer (at least to me!). 

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I'll read up on it a bit and see if I can figure out the logistics of all that work. It does sound like they will be oriented towards Library Street... but the SHJ is notoriously bad at capturing accurate details for urban development-related projects. I feel like Magnolia has been the traditional front door for the County Courthouse for over 100 (200?) of years, and it seems unlikely that they would change it.

 

In terms of the look... (red brick/traditional) these came to mind. Think columns on the main entrance and stone accents:

Kannapolis / NC Research Park: https://goo.gl/maps/9umqm7vYC4N2

Union (but with red brick instead of blonde: https://goo.gl/maps/vJH3XEtayZx

Anything on UNC Charlotte's campus bulit in the past 10-15 years: https://goo.gl/maps/AbqoG6MX3Mp

 

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  • 2 months later...

Wow, Spartanburg has been batting 1.000 lately! This is an amazing building, and I like that it reflects the context of the building that used to sit on that site, and the Federal Building across Magnolia Street. Based on that, the new courthouse and plaza would seem to be designed in the spirit of the City Beautiful Movement from 100 years ago. Check out the historic federal courthouse in Charlotte, and you'll see a similar type of plaza space (don't worry, they are going to remove the dumb iron fence).

Opportunities to create legitimate public open space like plazas in a downtown setting are rare, so if it can be done well, then it is a good thing. Having them attached to public buildings also makes a lot of sense. Historical city designs created town squares and public open space in front of city halls, courthouses and other public buildings, so its quite consistent with past practices. In fact, that's partially why Morgan Square exists. I think the bigger question is about the design of the plaza itself. Obviously the drawing shown is conceptual, and the end result needs to be well done in order for it to add to the city.

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Here's the rendering, just for ease of reference for the thread:

2064791051_NewCourthouserenderingcrop.jpg.f153cb75bb9cfa2cd889b29f83ba8099.jpg

I like the design more than I expected.  The earlier brick comment that was made threw me off, as this is clearly cast stone.  I do have concerns about the huge park/plaza.  Greenspaces in front of courthouses aren't always well used as a true public space (see Charlotte).  And I have some concerns about the "back" facing a prominent downtown gateway (St John from the west).  Hopefully that will be addressed properly.  This will have to be reviewed by the DRB, though as a civic building, it's not beholden to set-back requirements, so it can have a plaza.  It will be interesting to see how that goes.

@roads-scholar The parking deck is planned to be 600 spaces, which is about the same as the Magnolia Deck.  This looks like a slightly smaller footprint, so I'd guess ~6 floors?

Edited by westsider28
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12 hours ago, mainonmain said:

Love this, Will be interesting to see if this is a tone-setter for the City-County admin building, or if that goes in a different direction. 

Honestly...it would be interesting to see the City-County building go really modern since this is going very classical. Im thinking a glass and chrome/modern take on Art Deco would be cool but I am not in charge of anything. 

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18 minutes ago, sptgguy said:

Honestly...it would be interesting to see the City-County building go really modern since this is going very classical. Im thinking a glass and chrome/modern take on Art Deco would be cool but I am not in charge of anything. 

Agreed.  I'd like to see the City/County Admin building go modern.  It would be a cool contrast.

I whipped up a quick SketchUp model of the new courthouse.  I estimated ~110 feet tall based on 16-17 ft per floor x 6 floors + hipped roof.  It will indeed be pretty massive.

1728148208_NewCHGEaerialMB2.thumb.JPG.adebca417e53bdc497f1ae2bc4d504b8.JPG

147653498_NewCHGEskyline2.thumb.JPG.bfcb2897e18f3ce332e7fed27c99a1cb.JPG

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2 hours ago, westsider28 said:

Agreed.  I'd like to see the City/County Admin building go modern.  It would be a cool contrast.

I whipped up a quick SketchUp model of the new courthouse.  I estimated ~110 feet tall based on 16-17 ft per floor x 6 floors + hipped roof.  It will indeed be pretty massive.

1728148208_NewCHGEaerialMB2.thumb.JPG.adebca417e53bdc497f1ae2bc4d504b8.JPG

147653498_NewCHGEskyline2.thumb.JPG.bfcb2897e18f3ce332e7fed27c99a1cb.JPG

I was thinking the building would be closer to Library Street.  Am I mistaken?

Anyhow, thanks for this sketch!

Edited by roads-scholar
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The article talks about room for future expansion. Does anyone have a sense of where that is? I'm assuming the space to the right of the courthouse on the HJ site plan, the right side of the parcel (adjacent to Library St), or possibly the surface lot behind the parking deck.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Okay, so I finally found way more design details for the new courthouse.  It's on the Invest Spartanburg website, which I had totally forgotten about.  There are PDFs with site plans, floor plans, layout diagrams, and renderings.  You can check them out at the link, but I'll post a few screen-caps below.  These designs are technically still preliminary, so they could change, but they give a good idea of the likely setup.  Edit: I think this is an updated/more detailed timeline, too (PDF).

Site plan with potential future expansion:

775892829_CHsiteplan-future.JPG.4fa1fd53a772be4109c555e8fe28219d.JPG

Vertical programming diagram:

741130231_CHverticalprogrammingdiagram.JPG.3539870bfa0e36491b2db2335c6b7646.JPG

Ground-level floor plan:

856974402_CHfloorplan1.thumb.JPG.cd5df9c6cae225bd8d789d0cf5781393.JPG

Edited by westsider28
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