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SunRail [Phase 1 Completed]

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Is Crotty really going to ruin this one too? He's balking at a rather unsubstantial amount of money. And the idea that Osceola and Seminole have more to benefit from this commuter rail system is just hogwash.

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Is Crotty really going to ruin this one too?  He's balking at a rather unsubstantial amount of money.  And the idea that Osceola and Seminole have more to benefit from this commuter rail system is just hogwash.

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Didn't this article sound a whole heck of a lot more positive to you than yesterday's '...Poised to Kill...' ?

How the hell can you fault the guy for angling for better terms if he can ? some would just call that responsible governance.

By the way, how did the meeting go ?

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Orange offers new rail-line deal

By Scott Powers and Jason Garcia | Sentinel Staff Writers

Posted June 10, 2005

A day after stepping back from Central Florida's proposed commuter train, Orange County is trying to leverage a new deal that would keep the train on track and cut the cost to local taxpayers.

Florida Department of Transportation officials now are considering using a new law and more state money to cut local taxpayers' share of the costs in half.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/...-home-headlines

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For 475 millions, cant they build lightrail instead? And why is it so expensive if we only use existing track? Isnt the high speed rail only cost 1 billion?

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For one thing, I don't know that $ 475 mil gets much in the way of lightrail these days. For another, I think this commuter rail is supposed to be uber-cool, really streamlined and fancy, not looking like a locomotive.

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From a guy that promotes road-widening, more expressways and endless funds for the convention center, it does urk me that he is claiming to be searching for a fiscally responsible approach to commuter rail. Commuter rail is a fiscally responsible mode of transportation! I got to the meeting a bit late, but it was good to see community involvement, though I didn't learn anything new. It doesn't seem, at least from the attendees, that there is much nimbyism at this point.

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From a guy that promotes road-widening, more expressways and endless funds for the convention center, it does urk me that he is claiming to be searching for a fiscally responsible approach to commuter rail.  Commuter rail is a fiscally responsible mode of transportation!  I got to the meeting a bit late, but it was good to see community involvement, though I didn't learn anything new.  It doesn't seem, at least from the attendees, that there is much nimbyism at this point.

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Well, I suspect our dear Mr.Crotty is going to do the right thing here.

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Time to ride commuter rail to traffic relief

Published June 12, 2005

Winter Park killed a light-rail route through the city back in the 1990s. There was concern that the riffraff would ride the choo-choo into town

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/orl-lo...-news-headlines

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That was a funny column. I liked the part where he said:

"The big picture unfolds and the (Orange County Commissioners) turn into barnyard chickens, picking at minutiae. It's the story of this place."

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Unless Orlando can come up with the money and desire to build CSX an alternate route around Orlando, this will not happen. CSX will not allow light rail to operate on its tracks with freight trains, period. Sorry for the bad news.

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Unless Orlando can come up with the money and desire to build CSX an alternate route around Orlando, this will not happen. CSX will not allow light rail to operate on its tracks with freight trains, period. Sorry for the bad news.

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Huh ? I'm pretty sure they're farther down the road with CSX on this than you might imagine.

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Disband Orange County Government immediately!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Huh ? Where did that come from ?

Some of you guys wouldn't be happy with Crotty even if he announced he was building a 50 story tower, downtown, to house county government, to be named:

One Buddy Dyer Plaza

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Sorry, i am just really anti-Orange County after working for them. If Crotty built a 50 story tower and named it One Buddy Dyer Plaza, i would forgive them otherwise everywhere that has an Orlando Zip Code should be automatically in the corporate limits of Orlando.

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Sorry, i am just really anti-Orange County after working for them. If Crotty built a 50 story tower and named it One Buddy Dyer Plaza, i would forgive them otherwise everywhere that has an Orlando Zip Code should be automatically in the corporate limits of Orlando.

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I know, I know.

Ironically,since we're talking commuter rail, Buddy Dyer's not exactly turning cartwheels over it. His comments have been rather cautionary.

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Huh ? I'm pretty sure they're farther down the road with CSX on this than you might imagine.

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See this is what I don't understand. The city or county just assumes they will be able to use those tracks, when CSX has no intention of allowing it. They have definately not made any progress in talks with CSX. In fact, I know that the propositions that Orlando has brought to the railroad have been viewed as ridiculous.

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I'd be surprised that things are as dire as you suggest, given that it has not come up in any of the reporting about the commuter rail.

And it's not an Oralndo thing. It's the state which has been negotiating with CSX. And it seems pretty confident about all this.

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I've heard that CSX acts like an ass, when it comes to commuter rail issues. I assume to get CSX to relocate its freight and for the community to run commuter rail on the tracks, they'll have to be purchased from CSX, like South Florida did with Tri-Rail. Maybe that's why the projected costs are over $400 million.

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Commuter rail is nothing but trouble for CSX so they are not going to agree to something that causes them headaches and costs them money. I personally would love to see commuter rail in Orlando, but the concerns CSX has are valid.

Here is why they are opposed to it:

1. It eats up their capacity to run freight.

2. It dramatically increases their liability.

3. It requires expensive upgrades to the infrastructure.

4. The commuter operator would be incapable of properly training engineers to operate on a mainline.

5. CSX would be responsible for dispatching these trains as is the case with Tri-Rail.

Its not impossible but it will be very hard for these obstacles to be overcome. Why would CSX volunteer for something that complicates their business and costs them a lot of money? No proposal to date has included a figure high enough to cover the costs.

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Commuter rail is nothing but trouble for CSX so they are not going to agree to something that causes them headaches and costs them money. I personally would love to see commuter rail in Orlando, but the concerns CSX has are valid.

Here is why they are opposed to it:

1. It eats up their capacity to run freight.

2. It dramatically increases their liability.

3. It requires expensive upgrades to the infrastructure.

4. The commuter operator would be incapable of properly training engineers to operate on a mainline.

5. CSX would be responsible for dispatching these trains as is the case with Tri-Rail.

Its not impossible but it will be very hard for these obstacles to be overcome. Why would CSX volunteer for something that complicates their business and costs them a lot of money? No proposal to date has included a figure high enough to cover the costs.

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Yes, but we've known these factors for some time now. So the question remains, how could a fundamental intransigence on the part of CSX have escaped notice to date ?

I'm of the suspicion that lakelander may be on to something, that the state (or feds) may be purchasing the tracks, thus explaining the rather high price tag for commuter rail.

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I dont think CSX has (or wants to) publicly and definitively say "NO" to the whole thing for PR reasons, but they've stated the criteria that has to be met at a minimum. It is doubtful that the state/county/city fully understand the implications of meeting the criteria and the costs involved. It really just comes down to money. If they want to do it, and they have the cash, it can happen. CSX will not subsidize this project.

As for these articles that are being printed in the papers about this, they treat the dealings with CSX as an afterthought or as a minute detail of the deal, when in actuality it IS the deal.

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I dont think CSX has (or wants to) publicly and definitively say "NO" to the whole thing for PR reasons, but they've stated the criteria that has to be met at a minimum. It is doubtful that the state/county/city fully understand the implications of meeting the criteria and the costs involved. It really just comes down to money. If they want to do it, and they have the cash, it can happen. CSX will not subsidize this project.

As for these articles that are being printed in the papers about this, they treat the dealings with CSX as an afterthought or as a minute detail of the deal, when in actuality it IS the deal.

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i don't mean to make light of CSX's concerns, or your argument. The difficulty I have is in believing that folks have toiled, on the fed/state/local level, for many months, to produce a sophisticated and far-reaching proposal - released publicly, with some fanfare - knowing full well that it is never going to fly.

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Some of you guys wouldn't be happy with Crotty even if he announced he was building a 50 story tower, downtown, to house county government, to be named:

One Buddy Dyer Plaza

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You got that right! Maybe if he actually does...something, i'd be inclined to consider his contribution to this city as more than a major headache.

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You got that right!  Maybe if he actually does...something, i'd be inclined to consider his contribution to this city as more than a major headache.

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But if Lunican's right, Crotty's role is insignificant, seeing as how CSX is going to squash the whole deal.

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i don't mean to make light of CSX's concerns, or your argument. The difficulty I have is in believing that folks have toiled, on the fed/state/local level, for many months, to produce a sophisticated and far-reaching proposal - released publicly, with some fanfare - knowing full well that it is never going to fly.

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These projects are proposed throughout the country for cities facing the same issues as Orlando. Many of these proposals are based on seizing the right of way from the railroad with little or no compensation. Unfortunately these propsals are created by people that do not understand railroading or the fact that they can not use their powers of eminent domain over the railroad-- which allows cities to acquire property for public interest projects even if they are not for sale.

Hasn't Orlando released many plans with much fanfare about this issue over the past 15 or 20 years? The problem is they DO think it is going to fly...why they think that remains a mystery.

Don't give up on it though, it would be a great asset to the area.

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These projects are proposed throughout the country for cities facing the same issues as Orlando. Many of these proposals are based on seizing the right of way from the railroad with little or no compensation. Unfortunately these propsals are created by people that do not understand railroading or the fact that they can not use their powers of eminent domain over the railroad-- which allows cities to acquire property for public interest projects even if they are not for sale.

Hasn't Orlando released many plans with much fanfare about this issue over the past 15 or 20 years? The problem is they DO think it is going to fly...why they think that remains a mystery.

Don't give up on it though, it would be a great asset to the area.

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I'm sorry, friend, but it's just too difficult for me to believe (without more info), that this whole grand scheme has been laboriously shepherded, up to this point, based on a blithe (but misplaced confidence) that CSX is going to approve.

It is easier for me to believe that involved parties are all-too-familiar with CSX's concerns and that they have dilligently worked toward accomodating those concerns.

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Lunican, I don't know what information you have, but Orlando is not negotiating with CSX, the state/feds are, and ALL indications point towards buying out of the rights of the CSX tracks for passenger service, with limited frieght operations. CSX has other opportunities to move south through the peninsula (like the linke through Ocala to Lakeland). The only thing rediculous are your posts. --- See railroad map:Rail Map Here

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