SunRail

[jrs2]

Isn't there a second residential project in the works for either Longwood or Lake Mary?

I don't see anything getting built at DeBary station- I don't think they can.  I also don't see anything happening with the SLR station.  Maybe; I don't know.

That Maitland project is huge.  It will be sweet when built.

 

[spenser1058]

Disney has moderated their stance on access over the years as the more recent execs have gotten more involved in the community. It is definitely worth revisiting with TDO if a funding mechanism is ever secured again. Thankfully, Harris Rosen is not as active as he grows older and his mouthpiece on the OC Commission, Ted Edwards, was defeated in November.

[Jernigan]

Disney / Universal / I-Drive do not play well together at all.   Is it short sighted?  Perhaps.   Does it make good business sense?  Perhaps.   Does it really suck for traffic and for their employees?  You betcha.   

 

[alex]

2 hours ago, sunshine said:

Can they not add a link from kissimee to Disney front door that will help?

That's something that always irked me about SunRail: You're going to bill yourself as a commuter rail for workers, but you're ignoring two of the region's largest employers, Disney and MCO? 

27 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

I don't see anything getting built at DeBary station- I don't think they can.  I also don't see anything happening with the SLR station.

The original SunRail TOD Sketchbook had some preliminary design for DeBary and Sand Lake Road. Although how realistic they are can be debated. 

DeBary:

Sand Lake Road:

[sunshine]

Normally, properties along rail road line increase in value which in turn increase the tax base of the city and encourage more development. While properties next to interstate has lower values than houses further away from it. This rule doesn't seem to apply to Sunrail.

As for SLR station, I think it is in the county. Like I mentioned, the county did nothing. If I remembered correctly, I think the county was just considering doing a study last year to make this area urban.

 

[codypet]

SLR urbanization is under review and getting worked on as we speak.

[Jernigan]

Sunshine, I'm still not sure how we can downplay the projects listed above.   Maitland is undergoing a pretty radical transformation.   Keep in mind these are generally bedroom communities that look at any density as an evil thing that will cause immediate gridlock and crime.   Maitland happened in spite of those protests.  We've seen the same protests suffocate projects in downtown Orlando. 

I just don't see the foundation of a "rule doesn't apply for SunRail"  That real estate is doing great compared to things built along highways.   How is 436/50 or 436/17-92 doing since those flyovers went in?

[WAJAS]

7 minutes ago, Jernigan said:

Sunshine, I'm still not sure how we can downplay the projects listed above.   Maitland is undergoing a pretty radical transformation.   Keep in mind these are generally bedroom communities that look at any density as an evil thing that will cause immediate gridlock and crime.   Maitland happened in spite of those protests.  We've seen the same protests suffocate projects in downtown Orlando. 

I just don't see the foundation of a "rule doesn't apply for SunRail"  That real estate is doing great compared to things built along highways.   How is 436/50 or 436/17-92 doing since those flyovers went in?

 

Not to get too off track (get it!), but Maitland really is transforming as we speak.  The projects that I thought would never get built are actually going up.

 

The whole reasoning behind building North first has proven to not be as correct as originally thought. The interstate project isn't making traffic bad enough for people to want to change.  The only reason that it is mildly successful for is because of the Winter Park and, obviously, the downtown stops.

I think the reasoning behind going South and to OIA is much more viable.  You build Sunrail south to Osceola county because the cities down there have no direct and convenient way to commute to DTO.  Riding Sunrail from Osceola would actually save a lot more time than driving than riding Sunrail from Seminole.  You build Sunrail to OIA because of the huge pool of business commuters, local travelers (as in locals flying away and back), and OIA workers that would utilize Sunrail.

There is one HUGE issue with connecting to OIA: the schedule.  Workers at Florida Hospital and ORMC, the two HUGE employers in DTO, can't conveniently use Sunrail because of the schedule.  Workers at OIA are going to have this same issue.  All of these businesses have a huge pool of workers who could take Sunrail, but they also all have workers that work really odd hours at times.  If Sunrail doesn't get later and hourly trains by the time the OIA connection opens, then it will be doomed to fail yet again.

[Jernigan]

I don't think questions about Disney are bad or anything but I think that it takes away from a more pressing issue when it comes to dollars and cents around SunRail (you know, our money...)

- Just looking at 8-5 workers in just downtown Orlando...why aren't more of them riding the train?

- At this point we should be beyond spending money on marketing.   That is unless, of course, it has been spent wrong for 3 years... Otherwise if it's geography than save that marketing money for problems marketing can fix.   Or for bus feeders.

 

- that isn't to say this city doesn't beg for a 24/7 schedule that is more than just one spine....but to get caught up on that misses some key failures.   Even as a commuter rail that it is, shouldn't the trains be full?

[prahaboheme]

I predict that the Poinciana SunRail station will be the most heavily used park n' ride station along the line.

There is just NO good way in/out of Poinciana (even with that new toll road).  It just makes sense to ditch one's car at OBT/Poinciana and head on a nearly direct North route on the SunRail line.  Very excited for Osceola County!

The Kissimmee TOD development is also well under construction. 

Just a reminder, here are the plans:

Project Description: Mosaic was selected to redevelop 11 acres of vital land in downtown Kissimmee, directly across from Lake Toho and the City’s Waterfront Park, which was just part of a $34M upgrade that also included streetscape and utility enhancements. The site is 2 blocks from a multimodal station, which currently has Amtrak service and will have SunRail service in 2017. The project includes 260 apartment units (studio, 1 and 2 bedroom luxury apartments), 16 for-sale townhomes at 1,800-2,000 SF with roof top terraces, 21 flats, 15,000 SF of commercial space and a 120 key hotel. To accommodate downtown visitors, the City is building a 400 space parking garage that will be shared with the project. Hotel level amenities will be incorporated into the apartment community and the hotel and apartment users will have access to the new Lake Toho marina. The Florida Vernacular architectural style was selected in coordination with City staff and is sensitive to and complements the existing architectural fabric of the community. Construction is expected to start mid to late 2017 after the relocation of an existing electrical distribution facility and final clean-up of a remaining parcel.

And the Hotel at the old power plant lot across from Toho Park:

[sunshine]

15 hours ago, Jernigan said:

Sunshine, I'm still not sure how we can downplay the projects listed above.   Maitland is undergoing a pretty radical transformation.   Keep in mind these are generally bedroom communities that look at any density as an evil thing that will cause immediate gridlock and crime.   Maitland happened in spite of those protests.  We've seen the same protests suffocate projects in downtown Orlando. 

I just don't see the foundation of a "rule doesn't apply for SunRail"  That real estate is doing great compared to things built along highways.   How is 436/50 or 436/17-92 doing since those flyovers went in?

I am not downplaying it. The timing and the scale of the projects are just really underwhelming. I had been "following" urban development since I was in college and my job have allowed me to travel to a lot of cities around the globe both large and small cities. The effort putting into the TOD in this town is just not good compare to a lot of cities. Some suburban looking apartment complex can hardly make an increase in ridership. I am only critizing it because I want it to success.

It is like "let us put the train in there first" then we will figure out what to do with it later.

[alex]

SunRail to offer Sunday service for Orlando City game: http://sunrail.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/21132_SUN_Orlando-City-Schedule.pdf 

(In other news, SunRail sets a new record of being bad at marketing by advertising only two days before the event.)

[alex]

Could it be--positive news about SunRail? Looks like they counted 12,842 boardings on Saturday, almost four times the typical Monday through Friday boardings of 3,400. 

Impressive Ridership on Saturday, SunRail Riders

[Jernigan]

Maitland Station TOD

[neoanderz]

Huge turnout last Saturday.  I rode to/from Winter Park and Downtown.  It was the first time I really felt like SunRail was a major train system reminiscent of train rides I've taken in Europe and Asia with lots of crowds and people using it as a serious form of transportation.  The line just to buy tickets was long and I realized the ticket machines are really inefficient.  After you buy your ticket, the machine just stalls out for like 5 min, I guess "processing" something.  They need to fix this bug.  When you are the only one in line you don't notice it since it's after you have the ticket, but when you are waiting for the five people in front of you it adds considerable time to the process.  Overall great experience though.  Look at the crowds.

[cwetteland]

On 3/20/2017 at 3:49 PM, alex said:

Could it be--positive news about SunRail? Looks like they counted 12,842 boardings on Saturday, almost four times the typical Monday through Friday boardings of 3,400. 

Impressive Ridership on Saturday, SunRail Riders

Heard a lot of complaints of overcrowded trains and wait times. That's good news and bad news.  It shows the demand is there though.

[Jernigan]

The crowd is a function of downtown for better or worse.

Personally, if they could keep running it through sponsors for mega event days, then great.  But I don't think it justifies funding perpetual weekend service just because SunRail did well when we had a soccer game + March Madness + WP arts festival 

[HankStrong]

My parents have followed me and moved to Florida.  They actually rode the SunRail from the Sand Lake station to the art festival.

[shardoon]

well that is a little sigh of relief 

http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2017/03/28/breaking-house-bill-that-may-delay-brightline-gets.html

Edited March 28, 2017 by shardoon

[jrs2]

^^

yeah.  big news.  I'd move it over to the Brightline thread.

[alex]

SunRail on fast track to be under local government control

via WFTV

"Despite the low ridership, Mayor Buddy Dyer said he's not concerned, even though the city, Orange, Seminole and Volusia counties are set to take over the operations in 2021...But now there are talks to fast track that takeover, from an operations standpoint, by two years."

[codypet]

I think Buddy is anxious to get Sunrail out of the control of FDOT and Rick Scott who have been clearly not been doing a great job on this and move it over to the counties' control were I assume he envisions it can be run more frequently.  I think he understands part of the reason ridership is low is its crappy reliability.

[WAJAS]

Anyone else notice he's trying to push it to before the 2020 local elections? I think he wants to use it as a cornerstone of a new mayoral campaign, governor campaign, or UCF President campaign.  I may be reading too much into this though.

 

Also, the article mentions they are planning on testing the mobile app for SunRail next month.

Edited April 6, 2017 by WAJAS98

[HankStrong]

This has so much potential.  You just have to see it as (and it has to become) so much more than what it is today.

[Jernigan]

I'm in the minority but I'm okay with SunRail for the most part.   The tech for tickets and whatnot has been a big failure but otherwise it does it's job.   It's limited by geography and all these ridership concerns wouldn't be here if they waited and opened up the full spine from Volusia to Poinciana at once but I can't fault them for providing the first phase in advance of I-4 work.   

The TOD is admittingly exciting but Maitland to South Orlando is going to deserve a rapid light rail and when that happens how many of us will need or even want to hop on SunRail to make those trips?   Especially if there are additional light rail stations like at SoDo or Mills Park