SunRail

[WAJAS]

10 minutes ago, I am Reality said:

This MetroPlan report is a treasure trove of great info.  I'm going to have to really take a closer look at it.  I glanced at it for minute.  

From the small bit I saw, it looks like the I-4 Ultimate will be extended past Longwood well into Volusia Co. (the Lake Helen/Cassadaga exit)   FDOT has even started buying ROW for that extension (actually two extensions done in different phases).

 

 

 

Keep in mind its been a bit since it has been updated.  I think it still includes Maglev, which I still personally hope for.   I took a serious look at possible corridors for an eastward transit option a while ago and really got nowhere far.  There's not a lot of options other than a ridiculous amount of eminent domain/land buy or above the current roads.  The first option will never happen, and the second option is too expensive for a city the size of ours without any dedicated transit funding.

 

Quick sidebar:  I saw a video and did some research on urban gondola transportation, which is growing worldwide.  It honestly may be our only cost-effective option at this point.  It is a bit slow, but the capacity is high enough at about 4000 peeps per hour.  It also requires very little land.  The stands can go in in the midblock median areas of Colonial (shorten some turn lanes and squeeze some lanes).

Edited April 6, 2018 by WAJAS98

[klstorey]

11 minutes ago, I am Reality said:

This MetroPlan report is a treasure trove of great info.  I'm going to have to really take a closer look at it.  I glanced at it for minute.  

From the small bit I saw, it looks like the I-4 Ultimate will be extended past Longwood well into Volusia Co. (the Lake Helen/Cassadaga exit)   FDOT has even started buying ROW for that extension (actually two extensions done in different phases).

 

 

 

I recall seeing plans that called for toll lanes nearly all the way to 95 in Daytona. 

The Beyond the Ultimate project looks to be heating up. (See the Attractions area board for that discussion.) That project will take the I-4 Ultimate design all the way to 27. (Which I just say is impressively landscaped these days.) 

Ironically, on the Tampa side there's discussion on adding toll lames to their end of I-4. Those talks have been controversy filled, as are all transit debates there. I think that project is currently on theback burner, but I doubt it'll ever truly die. 

If it gets built it could extend toll lanes to all the way to Lakeland (though many proposals cut it off on the western edge side of Plant City). If the Lakeland length plans there happen it could mean an I-4 that's nearly completely rebuilt and with tolls lane running nearly the entire length of it. 

One interesting aspect of the Beyond the Ultimate project is that it deals with the Orlando stretch of I-4 was to have a high speed train. It'd make sense for a transit option to be added at the same time as the I-4 rebuild. MCO to 27. It seems like the perfect time to do it. 

10 minutes ago, WAJAS98 said:

 

Quick sidebar:  I saw a video and did some research on urban gondola transportation, which is growing worldwide.  It honestly may be our only cost-effective option at this point.  It is a bit slow, but the capacity is high enough at about 4000 peeps per hour.  It also requires very little land.  The stands can go in in the midblock median areas of Colonial (shorten some turn lanes and squeeze some lanes).

A gondola system was once proposed along 50 connecting Pine Hills to downtown to the executive airport and eventually out to UCF. There was even a few local politicians who traveled to Central or South America to see systems in use. I still think a gondola system us likely our best option at this point for east-west connectivity. 

I'm hopeful the one currently under construction at WDW will help more people buy into the benefits of gondola transit. 

[I am Reality]

14 minutes ago, WAJAS98 said:

Keep in mind its been a bit since it has been updated.  I think it still includes Maglev, which I still personally hope for.   I took a serious look at possible corridors for an eastward transit option a while ago and really got nowhere far.  There's not a lot of options other than a ridiculous amount of eminent domain/land buy or above the current roads.  The first option will never happen, and the second option is too expensive for a city the size of ours without any dedicated transit funding.

 

Quick sidebar:  I saw a video and did some research on urban gondola transportation, which is growing worldwide.  It honestly may be our only cost-effective option at this point.  It is a bit slow, but the capacity is high enough at about 4000 peeps per hour.  It also requires very little land.  The stands can go in in the midblock median areas of Colonial (shorten some turn lanes and squeeze some lanes).

Are you talking about Transit X by any chance?  I am very familiar with it.  Love it. And it's solar-powered (which is a big, big deal for me personally).  Osceola Co was considering Transit X for the 192 corridor. 

[klstorey]

1 minute ago, I am Reality said:

Are you talking about Transit X by any chance?  I am very familiar with it.  Love it. And it's solar-powered (which is a big, big deal for me personally).  Osceola Co was considering Transit X for the 192 corridor. 

The one here was a traditional gondola system with AC'd gondolas. But there was a Transit X style system just proposed for Clearwater. 

[codypet]

2 hours ago, klstorey said:

One interesting aspect of the Beyond the Ultimate project is that it deals with the Orlando stretch of I-4 was to have a high speed train. It'd make sense for a transit option to be added at the same time as the I-4 rebuild. MCO to 27. It seems like the perfect time to do it. 

In 2010 the high speed train was designed so close to construction you can actually find the stormwater permitting that was done for it.  The corridor is to be maintained in the new design and I've heard rumblings that it may come back.

[WAJAS]

5 hours ago, I am Reality said:

Are you talking about Transit X by any chance?  I am very familiar with it.  Love it. And it's solar-powered (which is a big, big deal for me personally).  Osceola Co was considering Transit X for the 192 corridor. 

I was actually unfamiliar with Transit X.  Just looked into it, and it is pretty interesting.  It is so 'out there' though that I don't see our governments adopting it without a very vocal grassroots movement.  I also would like to know their estimated peeps per hour for it and the cost to reach that capacity.

[prahaboheme]

Looks like the Kissimmee SunRail station is completed - I think it turned out great.

To the left is the new SunRail garage, directly right (not seen) is the recently opened Intermodal station.

All said, that brings SunRail, Amtrak, Lynx, and Greyhound into a centralized location in downtown Kissimmee.

photo courtesy of SunRail 

[IAmFloridaBorn]

8 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

Looks like the Kissimmee SunRail station is completed - I think it turned out great.

To the left is the new SunRail garage, directly right (not seen) is the recently opened Intermodal station.

All said, that brings SunRail, Amtrak, Lynx, and Greyhound into a centralized location in downtown Kissimmee.

photo courtesy of SunRail 

Too bad Poinciana didnt get the same thing but this looks nice

[codypet]

I got to hand it to them keeping the same design elements from the platforms through the garage.

[prahaboheme]

6 hours ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

Too bad Poinciana didnt get the same thing but this looks nice

That could be said for the majority of the park and ride stations. They are pretty cheap and uninspired.

[TRENCH]

On ‎4‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 9:17 AM, I am Reality said:

So is the Intermodel at the airport is the new transportation hub for the entire region?  It is at least 10 miles out of downtown.  I've said it before...it takes me 3 toll roads to get from downtown to the airport.

To get to UCF by train, we are proposing riding 10+ miles south to the airport; transfer at the Intermodel; and ride north 10+ miles to UCF.

That will never work..

agree. i live west to the Sand Lake station and and its 22 miles from UCF, i might as well drive Semoran and University with all its traffic than ride a train thats supposed to be faster

[spenser1058]

One of the architects of SunRail in Volusia (and one of the more effective past members of their county council, imho), says enough is enough:

SunRail partners take Volusia on a ride to nowhere
http://bit.ly/2Hrd64L

From the Sentinel

Edited April 11, 2018 by spenser1058

[jrs2]

On 4/11/2018 at 6:51 AM, spenser1058 said:

One of the architects of SunRail in Volusia (and one of the more effective past members of their county council, imho), says enough is enough:

SunRail partners take Volusia on a ride to nowhere
http://bit.ly/2Hrd64L

From the Sentinel

I read the article...broken promises, etc., about DeLand station...

Well... I don't know what to think.  Debary station has already expanded it's parking lot I heard.  I personally think that DOT believes that they need the extra OIA passenger traffic connected to Sunrail at the Inter modal center for it's future viability- and sooner than later, before they expand to DeLand.

But really, the white elephant in the room goes to everyone who voted straight ticket back during the election and my message to everyone on this Sunrail issue is as follows:  how do you like Stephanie Murphy now?   You can't blame her for running for office, though.  There were key people we needed to get reelected, and the loss of Mica was a serious blow to Sunrail's future.  

Maybe it's karma.  Scott got elected and replaced Christ  just in time to reject Obama's HSR money shortly before FEC made their Brightline announcement.  He delayed Sunrail for a minimum of six months too.  Mica was against that HSR project insofar as the leg from WDW to Tampa was concerned.  I personally believe that money or benefits exchanged hands on the FEC deal.

But here's another thing to consider:  if you retrace CSX's plans to relocate the "intermodal" rail center in Orlando to Winter Haven while upgrading that other track west of Orlando, it almost seems like Sunrail was nothing more than a ploy to give CSX a bunch of money for that purpose, with the side benefit of opening up the main line in Orlando to CRT, and not the other way around.  It was expensive.  Maybe the major push for Sunrail was really a push for CSX modernization with Sunrail as a side benefit, with no real planning in sight for future lines or stations.  Politics is dirty.

[spenser1058]

Simple facts: as long as the GOP is in control in Tallahassee, there will be no progress on rail unless it comes about as sweetheart deals for corporations. That's what happened with CSX and it is what is happening with Brightline. 

Folks like Buddy made a deal with the devil to get SunRail through at all, but in the current environment the Legislature has no incentive to make the adjustments required for its success. CSX got what it wanted - end of story.

I could tell you many tales about John Mica's motivations, but let's assume you're right and he was the only leading Republican promoting transportation. In today's Congress with today's president, it wouldn't matter. The deals he once made would now be blocked by the Freedom Caucus. Bottom line: one of the major political parties continues to actively block transit in the country. I'll let you guess which one.

As to Stephanie Murphy, I'll simply say I believe all Americans deserve basic civil rights. John Mica went out of his way for his Congressional tenure to actively block mine. So, even while I'll acknowledge what assistance he gave in the battle against one of the political parties for transit, I would never have voted for the man. 

If you believe things should be different in transit, it's easy to do your part to fix it. Change who's blocking progress when it comes to rail and bus funding in Tallahassee and DC come November.

[jrs2]

16 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Simple facts: as long as the GOP is in control in Tallahassee, there will be no progress on rail unless it comes about as sweetheart deals for corporations. That's what happened with CSX and it is what is happening with Brightline. 

Folks like Buddy made a deal with the devil to get SunRail through at all, but in the current environment the Legislature has no incentive to make the adjustments required for its success. CSX got what it wanted - end of story.

I could tell you many tales about John Mica's motivations, but let's assume you're right and he was the only leading Republican promoting transportation. In today's Congress with today's president, it wouldn't matter. The deals he once made would now be blocked by the Freedom Caucus. Bottom line: one of the major political parties continues to actively block transit in the country. I'll let you guess which one.

As to Stephanie Murphy, I'll simply say I believe all Americans deserve basic civil rights. John Mica went out of his way for his Congressional tenure to actively block mine. So, even while I'll acknowledge what assistance he gave in the battle against one of the political parties for transit, I would never have voted for the man. 

If you believe things should be different in transit, it's easy to do your part to fix it. Change who's blocking progress when it comes to rail and bus funding in Tallahassee and DC come November.

Very true on all accounts.  But something tells me that while CRT was being sold to CFLA, what was really going on behind closed doors was that CSX wanted to get paid, which they did, and have their freight tracks modernized and get $$$ for their new Intermodal- as the primary concern for CSX, not a secondary reactive move caused by losing the mainline track through Orlando.  I think FDOT saw the benefit to CSX and rail freight being much much greater for Florida as a whole than the benefit to CFLA with a new CRT line.  Maybe it was a way to sell it to the State.  Maybe it was a way to do both.  But then again, somebody here posed the hypothesis that FEC did the same exact thing with Brightline, ala, a way to get $$$ to modernize their track(s) and easement throughout most of the  Florida east coast.

And this would partly explain why there wasn’t or isn’t much foresight in planning a more comprehensive transit system, because they don’t really care.  Think about it.  If CRT fails in CFLA, CSX can still use the tracks for freight as before, and FDOT can sell the locomotives or repurpose them for the Tri-Rail system.  God, I hate to be such a pessimist on this subject.

[aent]

On 4/13/2018 at 8:44 PM, spenser1058 said:

Simple facts: as long as the GOP is in control in Tallahassee, there will be no progress on rail unless it comes about as sweetheart deals for corporations. That's what happened with CSX and it is what is happening with Brightline. 

Folks like Buddy made a deal with the devil to get SunRail through at all, but in the current environment the Legislature has no incentive to make the adjustments required for its success. CSX got what it wanted - end of story.

I could tell you many tales about John Mica's motivations, but let's assume you're right and he was the only leading Republican promoting transportation. In today's Congress with today's president, it wouldn't matter. The deals he once made would now be blocked by the Freedom Caucus. Bottom line: one of the major political parties continues to actively block transit in the country. I'll let you guess which one.

As to Stephanie Murphy, I'll simply say I believe all Americans deserve basic civil rights. John Mica went out of his way for his Congressional tenure to actively block mine. So, even while I'll acknowledge what assistance he gave in the battle against one of the political parties for transit, I would never have voted for the man. 

If you believe things should be different in transit, it's easy to do your part to fix it. Change who's blocking progress when it comes to rail and bus funding in Tallahassee and DC come November.

You definitely could view the democrats' rail proposals as different sweetheart deals for corporations. FDOT and Sunrail have been asking for local leadership to generally make the decisions and take over the operation of the trains. Buddy, for the most part, has got exactly what he wants on it.

Politics is dirty, but Trump's been pretty clear he wants to spend a TON of money on infrastructure (even if they haven't done it yet, they're supposedly working on a big spending bill now), and has specifically said improving our rail system many, many times. Other Republicans are also pro-doing it. America as a whole isn't very good at doing the whole rail transit system. The HSR proposals have gone nowhere. California, which had full support at every level, is not opening anytime soon, also not with a very useful route, and just billions of dollars flushed down the toilet. The local private proposal, Brightline, even with battles in courts from NIMBYs and no government funding, is a better route, and isn't taking any taxpayer dollars.

Look, I was upset when Rick Scott sent back the "Obama" HSR money as someone who wants good rail transit in the state, and I was vocal about that on here as well, I made it clear I thought it was a mistake; but seeing what they replaced it with (Brightline), that surely seems better to me. And even with all of its delays, based on what we're seeing on the other HSR system, Brightline will likely be operating in Orlando first. Connecting Palm Beach, Ft Lauderdale, and Miami, a larger metro area with more local transit so you can actually get to destinations without needing a car rental (or Ubering between every single location). I understand the politics in it, but thats on both sides, and neither side is very good at it, but the Republicans are getting it done more then before with their "public-private partnership" methodology.

And I view our biggest recent loss was the airport shooting down the Orlando Maglev proposal. And keep in mind at the state level, that system also had the full support of FDOT, its the local level that failed to get us the transit system, Buddy should have been doing everything he could to make sure it was approved at the local level, but instead he was silent. I admittedly have no idea how the management of MCO is appointed, perhaps someone can shed some light on that, but thats moreso where the blame lies at the moment.

[jrs2]

3 hours ago, aent said:

You definitely could view the democrats' rail proposals as different sweetheart deals for corporations. FDOT and Sunrail have been asking for local leadership to generally make the decisions and take over the operation of the trains. Buddy, for the most part, has got exactly what he wants on it.

Politics is dirty, but Trump's been pretty clear he wants to spend a TON of money on infrastructure (even if they haven't done it yet, they're supposedly working on a big spending bill now), and has specifically said improving our rail system many, many times. Other Republicans are also pro-doing it. America as a whole isn't very good at doing the whole rail transit system. The HSR proposals have gone nowhere. California, which had full support at every level, is not opening anytime soon, also not with a very useful route, and just billions of dollars flushed down the toilet. The local private proposal, Brightline, even with battles in courts from NIMBYs and no government funding, is a better route, and isn't taking any taxpayer dollars.

Look, I was upset when Rick Scott sent back the "Obama" HSR money as someone who wants good rail transit in the state, and I was vocal about that on here as well, I made it clear I thought it was a mistake; but seeing what they replaced it with (Brightline), that surely seems better to me. And even with all of its delays, based on what we're seeing on the other HSR system, Brightline will likely be operating in Orlando first. Connecting Palm Beach, Ft Lauderdale, and Miami, a larger metro area with more local transit so you can actually get to destinations without needing a car rental (or Ubering between every single location). I understand the politics in it, but thats on both sides, and neither side is very good at it, but the Republicans are getting it done more then before with their "public-private partnership" methodology.

And I view our biggest recent loss was the airport shooting down the Orlando Maglev proposal. And keep in mind at the state level, that system also had the full support of FDOT, its the local level that failed to get us the transit system, Buddy should have been doing everything he could to make sure it was approved at the local level, but instead he was silent. I admittedly have no idea how the management of MCO is appointed, perhaps someone can shed some light on that, but thats moreso where the blame lies at the moment.

On the GOAA issue, they make Baku $$$ on car rental fees.  Part of the rejection of Maglev dealt with the rental fee reimbursement they would receive from Maglev.  It is the busiest airport car rental terminal in the world, or at least it was in the 2000’s.  The other factor was Mears I’m sure.

As for the other stuff and party politics and the rejection of HSR, I would’ve preferred Fed $$$ for HSR, but not the route.  FEC still has to sell bonds to finance the system, so they are using someone else’s money regardless.

[aent]

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

On the GOAA issue, they make Baku $$$ on car rental fees.  Part of the rejection of Maglev dealt with the rental fee reimbursement they would receive from Maglev.  It is the busiest airport car rental terminal in the world, or at least it was in the 2000’s.  The other factor was Mears I’m sure.

As for the other stuff and party politics and the rejection of HSR, I would’ve preferred Fed $$$ for HSR, but not the route.  FEC still has to sell bonds to finance the system, so they are using someone else’s money regardless.

I'm aware that was their reason, but considering now we're considering using tax dollars for a similar route, spending hundreds of millions, it would have made more sense to have the city/county/whatever increase their budget to cover any rental car losses then reject the free maglev train and throw out the money.

Obviously the HSR money was tied to doing exactly that previous route, and if the HSR did happen, there is likely no way Brightline would be happening with the better route. The FEC bonds are being financed by non-taxpaying investors who are choosing to send their money that way, huge difference and far preferable to the alternative of forcing everyone to pay for it. The only benefit they are getting is they are tax exempt, still waaayy cheaper than anything else.

[prahaboheme]

Osceola County released some aerial footage of the SunRail Tupperware station along with a view of the new ORlando Health ER facility and widening of Orange Ave to the county line. Of the 3 stations in Osceola, Tupperware is a bit of a blank canvas so it is encouraging to see some serious investment around the station.

 

[WAJAS]

Someone made a petition to connect SunRail to the airport.  If enough people sign it then something may actually occur.  Petitions with enough signatures have brought down whole highways (or at least planned ones).  Share it to if you can.

https://www.change.org/p/sunrail-commission-chairwoman-viviana-janer-connect-the-sunrail-train-to-orlando-international-airport?recruiter=875177935&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial

Edited May 10, 2018 by WAJAS98

[orlandouprise]

I signed it and donated 20.00. Every little bit helps. lets all sign and try to make a difference

[codypet]

17 hours ago, WAJAS98 said:

Someone made a petition to connect SunRail to the airport.  If enough people sign it then something may actually occur.  Petitions with enough signatures have brought down whole highways (or at least planned ones).  Share it to if you can.

https://www.change.org/p/sunrail-commission-chairwoman-viviana-janer-connect-the-sunrail-train-to-orlando-international-airport?recruiter=875177935&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial

Did something change recently?  According to my sources, that's always been the plan?  Did David find something out that they cancelled it?

Edited May 11, 2018 by codypet

[HankStrong]

It's been in the plans for quite a while.  Very confusing.

[Jernigan]

Who’s Sam?

[gibby]

It's my understanding that it's on hold because the cost was so high.