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 To make sunrail sustainable they have to figure out how to get tourists to use it.  Adding the airport would be a big step. Anything to reduce the amount of rental cars on the road has my support.

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20 hours ago, Jernigan said:

Longwood originally had surface parking - are you sure you didn’t see the garage for the apartments right there?

Yes.  on Google, it lists the garage as being for both the station and the apartments.

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Even though that price with Trirail seems high, keep in mind that Trirail is using more track than Sunrail and is utilizing a station built by Brightline.  I think Sunrail's cost could very well be a third of Trirail's.

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4 hours ago, Jernigan said:

Sustainable? lol.  Could you imagine if we only built roads that “broke even?”

No one likes a boondoggle but transit, like roads, are an investment.   

We are a major metro area and should be able to put commuter rail to good use if it’s done right.   It won’t make a dollar, and it doesn’t need to, but it should add value in terms of throughput.

Sustainable doesn’t mean it is not an investment. Eventually the state will stop funding operations and that bill (that they are already complaining about) will fall on the counties. It’s vital to get the frequency of trains to the point of making sense for more than just commuters. We could use a few of the ~70 million tourist’s to help make the finances possible to increase frequency and also reduce demand on our highways.  The airport is essential to the system  and so is eventually connecting to the attractions. 

 

Toll roads are built to break even as a system over many years and allow for continual reinvestment. The same should be the goal for our train system even if we never get to the break even point.

Edited by Kaz

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Seems like a 2 dollar rental car surcharge going to transit would accomplish the goal of having tourists help pay for our transit without even having to add track.

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On 5/15/2018 at 12:04 PM, codypet said:

The train hits 65 mph briefly just north of SLR.  I suspect south of  Meadow Woods, they can get to 79 like they do between Longwood and Lake Mary.  It would be awesome to be able to get back and for there so quick.  There is a developer planning apts behind the post office at SLR, but I don't know when he plans on breaking ground.   Yea, that midday gap is a killer.

They are looking to increase to 40 trains a day.  If that happens you’ll have trains leaving Debary every 30 min from 5-8...again at 9, 10, 11:30, 12:30, 1:30...then back to 30 min frequency from 3-5:30 and finally 2 more later trains.   

While round trip trains, you’ll still have a train start in Poinciana so the first trip north would be as early as 5:45am.

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In related transportation news.. From OBJ

 

Orlando already is a hot spot for high-tech industries, like defense contracting and smart sensor development.

Now, Orlando appears to be becoming a market where futuristic transit systems can take shape — like the Virgin Hyperloop One vacuum tube train, and others.

 
That’s according to Harry Barley, executive director of MetroPlan Orlando, the region’s metropolitan planning organization.

In fact, Barley said MetroPlan already met with the Richard Branson-backed Virgin Hyperloop One team, which is fashioning a 257-mile high-speed train route that would travel from Orlando International Airport to the Miami Intermodal Center in just 26 minutes. And that’s not all.

“We are meeting with another hyperloop company several weeks from now,” Barley told Orlando Business Journal. “This is a market that’s evolving. It’s very exciting technology and it’s an opportunity that can be explored.”

 

Los Angeles-based Virgin Hyperloop One — a concept first envisioned by billionaire Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla and SpaceX —would house both freight and people in “pods” within a fully autonomous, enclosed structure. This type of high-tech system would offer a transit alternative for businesspeople and the workforce between two major metro areas.

MetroPlan hasn’t yet issued any requests for proposals from firms that would want to build such a system. But it has talked with Los Angeles-based Hyperloop Transportation Technologies Inc., which wants to build a similar tube-train system from Orlando to Tampa, Barley said.

The infrastructure already may be in place for such a route, he said.

“There’s right of way reserved along Interstate 4 that can be used for premium transit,” Barley said, adding that Hyperloop Transportation Technologies would need additional right of way for the two stops it plans between Orlando and Tampa.

That connector, together with Virgin Hyperloop One’s plans to link Orlando and Miami, would bolster Orlando’s $70 billion tourism industry, which is the region’s dominant economic engine that welcomed a historic 72 million visitors in 2017.

The proposed Orlando-to-Miami route — one of 10 U.S. routes targeted by the Virgin Hyperloop One team — would use U.S. Highway 27 to avoid more densely-populated areas, Director of Public Policy Dan Katz said.

“One of the things that impressed us was the corridor,” Katz told OBJ. “We need to engage with Central Florida. When you are trying to do a corridor like this, it’s only possible when all the players are involved.

“Those are some of the missing pieces.”

 

Another big question is how the system would be funded. Virgin Hyperloop One seeks to form a public/private partnership to fund the project.

“We would need to know more of what type of public/private investment would be made,” Barley told OBJ. “We would imagine proposals from any company would involve a public/private partnership.

“The challenge is how these types of partnerships would be funded and who would have the assumption of risks. But the revenue sources Hyperloop One [referenced] are reasonable. It’s a matter of how it all comes together.”

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They hyperloop technology would definitely be ideal to get to Miami.  Personally I wish this tech followed I-95 with spurs to Orlando/Tampa and other major cities up the to east coast.

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So, we have Elon Musk's proposal, and Virgin, and HTT wanting to build hyperloop routes? 

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1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

So, we have Elon Musk's proposal, and Virgin, and HTT wanting to build hyperloop routes? 

Elon isn't making one. He published the original concept and then made it open for anyone to use.  Then these other companies, Virgin being at the forefront, took the concept and are actually attempting to build it.  Elon published it because he didn't have the time to pursue the venture with Tesla, SpaceX, and Boring taking up so much time.

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If they could somehow add the airport stop between Sand Lake and Meadow Woods and only increase the Kissimmee travel time by maybe ten minutes, I think that would be better than adding a special airport transfer station.

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The trainyard being on the north end is the killer to using it for not commuter purposes.  Last train leaves altamonte /maitland/ WP at 830-845 if I don't want to uber home.

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22 minutes ago, AndyPok1 said:

The trainyard being on the north end is the killer to using it for not commuter purposes.  Last train leaves altamonte /maitland/ WP at 830-845 if I don't want to uber home.

Call your elected officials!  FDOT owns the tracks and the trains so the only thing in the way From having more service is more funding

Edited by Jernigan

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Interesting article on how mass transit is being killed in many cities by people with a huge financial interest in fossil fuels.

Supporters of transit investments point to research that shows that they reduce traffic, spur economic development and fight global warming by reducing emissions. Americans for Prosperity counters that public transit plans waste taxpayer money on unpopular, outdated technology like trains and buses just as the world is moving toward cleaner, driverless vehicles.

Most American cities do not have the population density to support mass transit, the group says. It also asserts that transit brings unwanted gentrification to some areas, while failing to reach others altogether.

Public transit, Americans for Prosperity says, goes against the liberties that Americans hold dear. “If someone has the freedom to go where they want, do what they want,” Ms. Venable said, “they’re not going to choose public transit.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/19/climate/koch-brothers-public-transit.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytclimate

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4 hours ago, popsiclebrandon said:

Interesting article on how mass transit is being killed in many cities by people with a huge financial interest in fossil fuels.

Supporters of transit investments point to research that shows that they reduce traffic, spur economic development and fight global warming by reducing emissions. Americans for Prosperity counters that public transit plans waste taxpayer money on unpopular, outdated technology like trains and buses just as the world is moving toward cleaner, driverless vehicles.

Most American cities do not have the population density to support mass transit, the group says. It also asserts that transit brings unwanted gentrification to some areas, while failing to reach others altogether.

Public transit, Americans for Prosperity says, goes against the liberties that Americans hold dear. “If someone has the freedom to go where they want, do what they want,” Ms. Venable said, “they’re not going to choose public transit.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/19/climate/koch-brothers-public-transit.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytclimate

Let me ask: Does Houston, Dallas, and Denver have rail transit?  Yes.  Are there major fossil fuel interests in those cities?  Yes.  How about NOLA?  They have a streetcar system and major refineries and energy companies there.  Same with LA.  Or are these people pressuring politicians in other cities?  I ask because in most case, large cities have Democrats for mayors; fat chance pressuring them against mass transit development.

Well, I've never heard of that group.  I don't know who they really represent, though.  But they do have a point.  If owning a car gives one the freedom to travel without hindrance, then relying on public transportation as an alternative is much more limiting to the individual.  That's common sense.

I don't know about the gentrification argument; I thought train stations bring more TOD.  They are correct about density though.

IMO, The Times is magnifying the opinion of a small group in an attempt to paint a picture that they reflect the opinions of typecast conservative viewpoints, which we are most all aware. 

So where has mass transit been killed thus far because of this group, or is this The Times sensationalizing... again? 

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Nashville, for starters.  Did you read the article?  New Orleans had streetcars before Orlando was named.  Cars didn't even exist.  What does the point about New Orleans even mean?  Do you think having mayors who are Democrats in those cities guarantees that matching federal of state dollars will be available for public transport projects?  You've never heard of what group, the Kochs?  How is having public transportation as an alternative "limiting to the individual"?  How is that common sense?  Would folks in Chicago be able to "travel without hindrance" using their cars if all of the City's public transportation infrastructure vanished tomorrow?

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Construction is expected to start this summer on a 289-unit luxury apartment complex near the Sunrail station in DeBary. This is the first stage of the $180 million DeBary Town Center which will also include a senior living facility, stores, eateries and at least one small grocery store. Additional pedestrian trails and manmade lakes would also be part of the development.

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1 hour ago, gibby said:

Nashville, for starters.  Did you read the article?  New Orleans had streetcars before Orlando was named.  Cars didn't even exist.  What does the point about New Orleans even mean?  Do you think having mayors who are Democrats in those cities guarantees that matching federal of state dollars will be available for public transport projects?  You've never heard of what group, the Kochs?  How is having public transportation as an alternative "limiting to the individual"?  How is that common sense?  Would folks in Chicago be able to "travel without hindrance" using their cars if all of the City's public transportation infrastructure vanished tomorrow?

...and New Orleans still does have streetcars and they are a major fossil fuel industrial city/region which should be influenced by anti- mass transit fossil fuel types per the article.  I guess that was my point?  

Can I drive to gainesville to see a game? yes.  And can I take my car and go all over town and in the outlying areas to my heart's content with that same car?  Yes.  Could I do that without a car? No.  That's what's common sense.  No one ever said having public transportation as an alternative with both coexisting was limiting. 

But another argument could be that in spending $$$ on a rail route within Miami's city limits means you forego extending the TNPK south past Homestead (hence the TNPK Extension), then that is a bad trade off (one over the other).

New York is a better example than Chicago.  People still heavily commute by car in Chicago regardless of how extensive Metra seems to be.  And downtown Chicago is bumper to bumper with cars (as is Manhattan) regardless of the El Train, which is not as extensive as many believe it to be.  I wonder what the percentage of train riders is vs car drivers; it's can't be more than 10%.

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