SunRail

[monsoon]

Maybe.

The vast majority of the USA that we see today was built after WWII. In comparison, Japan and the UK developed cities a thousand years earler than what we have here. London is 2000 years old.

But the other reason is that we developed around the car simply because we could afford to. Cheap land and pleaty of it, along with cheap energy, cheap raw materials, and the American dream that everyone could own an automobile made all of this happen. The mass produced automobile was invented here and in the almost 100 years since that happened, we have paved 10% of the land in the continental USA, and 60% of the space in our modern cities are devoted to the car. The automobile has become a prosthesis that we can't live without in most cases.

[FlaNatv]

Hopefully, this proposed Commuter rail will be such a success that it will be quickly extended to Tampa. Also I'm hoping this will encourage Metro Tampa Bay to develop CR on much of it's own existing rails. After proper links to other transit lines are established and after the general public gets used to this type of transit system then maybe we can approach the HSR issue in Florida again.

[cwetteland]

Hopefully, this proposed Commuter rail will be such a success that it will be quickly extended to Tampa. Also I'm hoping this will encourage Metro Tampa Bay to develop CR on much of it's own existing rails. After proper links to other transit lines are established and after the general public gets used to this type of transit system then maybe we can approach the HSR issue in Florida again.

This is on existing rail lines. Is there a line between Orlando and Tampa that connects to the CXS tracks?

[bobliocatt]

Yes, the same line that Orlando's proposed commuter rail system will run on, also goes directly through Lakeland, all the way to Tampa. In fact, I believe that instead of building high speed rail between Tampa and Orlando, a commuter rail line along this tracks would be a much better and cheaper alternative.

[prahaboheme]

But generally, how many people commute between Tampa and Orlando daily? And of those people. how many would physically be able to keep their car at home if they lived in Sanford, hop on a train, take it all the way to say, Lakeland, and get off the train and walk to work? Probably none. I think Orlando should build its own commuter system (which appears will happen) with TOD around the stations, Tampa should do the same, and a faster HSR that connects the two downtowns be built.

btw, if Tampa were to propose commuter rail, does anyone have any idea where the stations would be located in the metro area? Are the existing lines similar to Orlando's, running on a North/South axis?

[Jahi98]

But generally, how many people commute between Tampa and Orlando daily? And of those people. how many would physically be able to keep their car at home if they lived in Sanford, hop on a train, take it all the way to say, Lakeland, and get off the train and walk to work? Probably none.

That's where the buses and/or light rail systems would come into play.

A commuter line on the old CSX tracks would terminate in DT Tampa, I believe; or it could continue from just east of DT Tampa, up over the top of the bay into DT Clearwater and terminate in DT St. Pete (this route would take it through several "downtowns" in Pinellas). Right now, there isn't a plan for commuter rail in Tampa other than the proposed statewide system.

I think there are a good number of people that commute between the three metro areas (Tampa Bay, Lakeland and Orlando) that such a system is warranted. I agree with Lakelander. The CSX might be cheaper and better. In the meantime, I applaud the Orlando metro for working together to get a commuter rail line built. Hopefully, it this will put some pressure on the leaders in Tampa Bay to come together in similar fashion.

Edited November 15, 2005 by Jahi98

[Jaybee]

When did commuter rail suddenly come intercity rail... I either missed the memo, or is Amtrak suddenly flush with cash?

[bobliocatt]

When did commuter rail suddenly come intercity rail... I either missed the memo, or is Amtrak suddenly flush with cash?

Since Tri-Rail went operational in South Florida. Seriously though, Tri-Rail (from West Palm Beach to Miami) is about the same distance as downtown Tampa is from downtown Orlando.

[bobliocatt]

But generally, how many people commute between Tampa and Orlando daily? And of those people. how many would physically be able to keep their car at home if they lived in Sanford, hop on a train, take it all the way to say, Lakeland, and get off the train and walk to work? Probably none.

Actually several. The majority of Polk County's rapidly growing population works in either metro Orlando or Tampa and a good portion of Eastern Hillsborough residents work in the Lakeland area. The line would also attract tourist traveling between Orlando and Tampa, as well as offer a viable and affordable alternative method of transportation between the three growing metros, other than I-4 or US 92. As for getting dropped off at a station will no where to go, there would be express bus routes, taxis, other forms of local rail, etc. to get around. In reality, a rail station is no different from an airport. What do commuters do when a plan currently lands in Tampa or Orlando?

btw, if Tampa were to propose commuter rail, does anyone have any idea where the stations would be located in the metro area? Are the existing lines similar to Orlando's, running on a North/South axis?

The same line Orlando uses, runs through Lakeland/Plant City and terminates in downtown Tampa. There's also a N-S line that runs parallel to I-275 near USF and Busch Gardens, as well as another line that runs near the airport, through Pinellas County, terminating in downtown St. Pete.

Edited November 16, 2005 by thelakelander

[Dale]

The Sentinel reported last Friday that Edgewood is opposing the project. As some of you may recall, Edgewood killed the airport tollway project a few years back. Wonder if they can kill commuter rail singlehandedly.

[sunshine]

WHERE THE HELL IS EDEWOOD?

[WeNeed2Progress]

The Sentinel reported last Friday that Edgewood is opposing the project. As some of you may recall, Edgewood killed the airport tollway project a few years back. Wonder if they can kill commuter rail singlehandedly.

Does anyone else hear 'Dueling Banjos' or is it just me?

Here you go, Sunshine: http://www.edgewood.cc/

[JRS1]

Edgewood? screw them. there's nothing of value in that godforsaken crap hole of a neighborhood. How will commuter rail hurt that place anyway?

[Dale]

Well, the question I have is can Edgewood screw the whole project, because if the airport tollway was any indication, they're dug in but good in their opposition.

[JRS1]

Yeah, but there's a difference between building an expressway on the RR easement and builg more easement, and merely running a commuter rail train on existing tracks. If they don't want a station, then don't put one there-- am I missing something here?

"buying more easement"-- I need to start reading what I type before adding the reply...

[bande_originale]

Technically rail passes through Edgewood, although the municipality itself would not be served by a station. I suppose that's the reason for Edgewood's involvement. Dale, for those of us who haven't been here all that long, can you give a brief summary of how they killed the airport tollway project?

[Dale]

I think a station is envisaged for Edgewood. That's why I'm inquiring as to the relevance of Edgewood's opposition. Maybe Jaybee's up on this.

[Jaybee]

The closest station to the Republic of Edgewood is at Sand Lake Road/Orange, and it would contain a parking lot. Keep in mind that commuter rail is not a subway, or light-rail. Providing additional stops that close in (so you can commute a few miles) is nonsense, IMHO. IE. I'm sure that there aren't that many people dying to commute to Cypress Grove Park, and there isn't much development opportunity for TOD in in the cul-de-sacs of Edgewood.

[Dale]

Technically rail passes through Edgewood, although the municipality itself would not be served by a station. I suppose that's the reason for Edgewood's involvement. Dale, for those of us who haven't been here all that long, can you give a brief summary of how they killed the airport tollway project?

bande, though living in Gainesville at the time, as I recall, the tollway would have passed right through Edgewood, thus requiring its approval, which Edgewood was loathe to give, so the whole thing unraveled.

[bande_originale]

The closest station to the Republic of Edgewood is at Sand Lake Road/Orange, and it would contain a parking lot. Keep in mind that commuter rail is not a subway, or light-rail. Providing additional stops that close in (so you can commute a few miles) is nonsense, IMHO. IE. I'm sure that there aren't that many people dying to commute to Cypress Grove Park, and there isn't much development opportunity for TOD in in the cul-de-sacs of Edgewood.

Yeah, I thought Lancaster Road at Orange was a station site in earlier planning but that it was scrapped later. No, the 1,800 residents of Edgewood won't get their own station. 'Tis injustice, indeed.

[depechecureguyorl]

^ But those 1,800 had the power to kill a much needed highway project that would have served hundreds of thousands. I say justice is served!

Edited November 22, 2005 by depechecureguyorl

[Dale]

This seems like very good news. $11 million from the Feds. Covers engineering and designwork:

www.news-journalonline.com/NewsJournalOnline/News/Local/03AreaEast02112205.htm

[JRS1]

Is this project still alive? Any updates? Or rather, anyone know at what stage of the process commuter rail is at right now?

[sunshine]

News from Orlando Sentinel yesterday said that the project is on track for 2009, the later phase will be delayed for 2 years.

[bande_originale]

Is this project still alive? Any updates? Or rather, anyone know at what stage of the process commuter rail is at right now?

Given that the typical NEPA requirements take anywhere from 12 to 24 months to complete and that the project is still in that stage (i.e. before preliminary engineering has begun), I wouldn't expect it to have moved very far in the month since the last activity on this thread.

Also, remember that this project has been sold to local governments as having all-but-guaranteed 50% federal funding. That money has not yet been awarded by the FTA, so the project, if it depends on federal funding for its advancement, is a wild card at best. It's worth bearing in mind, not as a pessimistic disclaimer but rather as a sobering reality, that out of 30 full funding grant agreement applications through New Starts in FY2004-05 only four were awarded. And those were in communities with fairly unanimous local support.