SunRail

[IAmFloridaBorn]

8 minutes ago, Jernigan said:

I don’t need a better idea, someone already came up with it.  Next year, UCF will begin running shuttles on 408 free for its students faculty and staff.   

Is that the solution they've come up with rather than rail on 50?

[Jernigan]

No, not at all.  SR50 corridor study will still/has already (don’t know the timeline) make a recommendation which will then one day possibly become a thing.  They may need to take into account UCFs ridership at some point.

This is just UCF doing what they need to do.   In my personal opinion, the entity causing the need and trips (UCF) paying for the mitigation solution is a good thing.  And when you talk about your route and take out UCF, does it still make sense?   We can and should connect Milk to DTO with a Lymmo extension.    

The other stops were more or less non starters.   Lockheed Martin won’t allow a public transit vehicle past their security gate which means workers would have to hike to get to the office.

[I am Reality]

27 minutes ago, Jernigan said:

I don’t need a better idea, someone already came up with it.  Next year, UCF will begin running shuttles on 408 free for its students faculty and staff.   

I can be passive-aggressive and make smart-ass comments also! You need  not feel alone.

My mistake though:  I thought for sure this was the SunRail section.  

Silly me....talking about SunRail here.

On a serious note, perhaps we can do something for the hundreds of thousands of people living and working BETWEEN downtown and UCF also.  (If not, maybe those people can pretend to be UCF students and hitch a free shuttle ride.  Bam!!  Problem solved).

Okay, I'm not as good at being smart-assed as you are. But I tried.

(Note:  This will be me begging to get onto the free UCF shuttle)

Edited August 1, 2018 by I am Reality

[Jernigan]

Not trying to be a smartass - just trying to think about it more comprehesively than some dots on a map.  People don’t accidentally move into cul de sacs...you are trying to help people that aren’t asking for it.   And sure as heck won’t walk 1/2 mile from their subdivision to the brick border wall...even if you had a stop at every subdivision entrance. (That’s called the bus).

I know this is a SunRail thread.   But just because you are a hammer doesn’t mean that every problem is a nail (or something like that).   What regional commute trips do we need to add multimodal options for where rail might work best?  West Volusia - check.  Kissimmee/Poinciana? check.  Hopefully on deck: Apopka.  Nona/St. Cloud.  South Lake.  

UCF isn’t much more than a local trip.   It creates a lot of traffic but rail won’t easily induce mode shift because of how short the distance is to begin with and the conditions one would have to walk in to get to the line. Cons outweigh pros pretty quick and a solution like a TNC for every subdivision could make a lot more sense.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Jernigan

[I am Reality]

If I want to take SunRail, I drive my butt 5 minutes to the Park Ave station.

If people in Maitland want to take SunRail, they will likely drive to the Maitland station.

If people in Altamonte want to take SunRail, they will likely drive to the Altamonte station.  

If people living off Lake Underhill want to take SunRail, they can drive to the nearest station.

There is no expectation people will walk from their subdivisions.

As for helping people who don't want it, why are YOU deciding people's transit options?  Who said people on the eastside don't want it?  There is likely MUCH more demand there than in Poinciana. But thanks for being the ultimate arbitrator of transit options. 

[Jernigan]

Haha my decision making goes as far as 1 taxpayer voting if given the opportunity.  I’m no more deciding that they shouldn’t have it than you are deciding they should.

 

 

[Naqiy90]

13 hours ago, codypet said:

The funny thing about being next to that Walmart is that the path to the station from Walmart is unfortunately behind a wall of stores.  I feel like expanding the lot to the north could do a lot to make a gateway into that Walmart Plaza.  (Walmart is to the right of Booty Liquors.  Wait? Is that really the name?)

 

Funny thing about that station is there' actually a fence blocking access to the Plaza from the Sunrail station so a person would have to walk all the way to Orange and Osceola parkway to reach that plaza due to some property dispute between the Plaza and FDOT. I was looking forward to the visiting my GF at harbor freight often because its literally 100s of feet from the train station but apparently access to the plaza is heavily restricted,which doesn't make sense to me since it's literally the only thing in the area,things like this only stand in the way of ridership, several other passengers were equally perturbed and upset at the new placed fence, which was not present a few weeks before the train opened. I'm filing a complaint with FDOT,  Sunrail Board, and the property owner because this dumb fence completely ruined my enthusiasm for the southern expansion.

[Urban Mail Carrier]

8 hours ago, Jernigan said:

UCF doesn’t have 64k students in person on that main campus.   Look at the 408 outside of rush hour.   There’s your UCF - Downtown demand.   (It’s not there)

Do u know how many students are actually on main campus? I was generalizing.

Shuttle service to downtown UCF is great but that's only a temporary fix and I assume that it will be stuck in traffic. Remember 70 million tourists congested our roads. Why not use UCF as a catalyst for service for Eastbound service. I assume that your not a fan of using 408 as a route for service and prefer one on colonial instead. 

[HankStrong]

15 hours ago, jrs2 said:

How do you go to UCF?  408 easement?  Rails to Trails killed the old train lines 20 years ago going out to Oviedo.

For SFB, you can probably link the CSX line near General Hutchinson Pkwy & Ronald Reagan, go east, cross 17-92, follow the road a little ways longer to 419 where a rail line is currently at.  It's a total of 2 miles.  Then, that rail line heads north right to airport property on it's west side.  They would have to improve that rail line though.

I'm not going to claim to have a prepackaged, easy answer for that.  There isn't one.  But you find a way out there.  Be that 50, be that 408, be that Red Bug, be that University/Crotty, whatever.  You find a way and you make it happen.

Every single system built in an existing city has had to find a way, whatever that way was.

 

 

The SFB link looks soooo easy.

[jrs2]

9 hours ago, HankStrong said:

I'm not going to claim to have a prepackaged, easy answer for that.  There isn't one.  But you find a way out there.  Be that 50, be that 408, be that Red Bug, be that University/Crotty, whatever.  You find a way and you make it happen.

Every single system built in an existing city has had to find a way, whatever that way was.

 

 

The SFB link looks soooo easy.

Yeah...yeah...

Yeah, I was focused on the element of- How do you get the easement for the cheapest price?... So I figured, if the Expressway Authority wanted to play nice (unlike OUC), they could donate ROW for the train, and you could stay on 408 all the way to Challenger Pkwy corridor.

I Am Reality's idea isn't bad, route wise, and better than an easement or median route, as seen in Chicago.  Money-wise, dunno…  But, if Anderson/Lake Underhill is so converted, that's your easement right there.  

Yeah on the SFB route... I studied Google Map to be sure on that...  It does look pretty easy...

But, CRT to Mount Dora or Eustis is the easiest.  CMIIW, but didn't the rail carrier for that route apply for federal money to improve those tracks (which benefitted it's industrial warehousing along that route?)?  Or was that tied into whether Sunrail actually got approved?  The OBX...

20 hours ago, Kaz said:

If the sunrail could serve the tourist areas it will also serve the locals that work there. A rail that serves the airport, i-drive/convention center and lake buena vista would make too much sense.  

Reducing the amount of rental cars on the road will save lives.

Mears and GOAA wouldn't agree, my friend.

[gibby]

I think the railroad operator got some minor money, basically to keep the tracks in decent condition and functioning.  It was basically step 1 in eventually getting passenger rail on the line.  I'm pretty sure they did get the money though.

[orange87]

I think before the southern expansion of Sunrail, the DeBary station was the busiest. Am I right about that? And do you think one of these new stations will be more busy than the DeBary station?

[gibby]

Sand Lake is the busiest.  Debary, LYNX and Church Street are all basically tied for second busiest.

[Jernigan]

19 hours ago, Naqiy90 said:

Funny thing about that station is there' actually a fence blocking access to the Plaza from the Sunrail station so a person would have to walk all the way to Orange and Osceola parkway to reach that plaza due to some property dispute between the Plaza and FDOT. I was looking forward to the visiting my GF at harbor freight often because its literally 100s of feet from the train station but apparently access to the plaza is heavily restricted,which doesn't make sense to me since it's literally the only thing in the area,things like this only stand in the way of ridership, several other passengers were equally perturbed and upset at the new placed fence, which was not present a few weeks before the train opened. I'm filing a complaint with FDOT,  Sunrail Board, and the property owner because this dumb fence completely ruined my enthusiasm for the southern expansion.

That fence should be gone soon if not already.   It was just meant to be there until the start of service.

[jrs2]

14 hours ago, Jernigan said:

That fence should be gone soon if not already.   It was just meant to be there until the start of service.

yeah, but have they paved a path on the east side of those tracks?

[codypet]

18 hours ago, orange87 said:

I think before the southern expansion of Sunrail, the DeBary station was the busiest. Am I right about that? And do you think one of these new stations will be more busy than the DeBary station?

I think Debary will be the busiest suburban station.  I have to think Poinciana and Meadow Woods will give it a run for its money.  People are already complaining there's no traffic light to exit the station and its very busy trying to enter and leave the lot.

[Jernigan]

23 hours ago, gibby said:

Sand Lake is the busiest.  Debary, LYNX and Church Street are all basically tied for second busiest.

A little surprised Winter Park isn’t in the Top 4.   Also - Orlando Health WTF.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Jernigan

[gibby]

Yeah, the ridership for both hospitals is terrible and I don't get it.

[aent]

39 minutes ago, Jernigan said:

A little surprised Winter Park isn’t in the Top 4.   Also - Orlando Health WTF.

I think Winter Park does better with the weekend crowd and those visiting Winter Park, not quite as well with the commuter crowd. It'd be a top spot for night/weekend service IMO.

[Jernigan]

4 minutes ago, gibby said:

Yeah, the ridership for both hospitals is terrible and I don't get it.

One of Orlando Health’s issues is that the station is geographically close but in a relatively run down part of the campus.   Nothing is getting cleaned up as both the City and the hospital have long term plans but some lighting and signage would go a long way in the meantime.   Especially for the half a year when it’s dark just after 5

[dcluley98]

Airport connection would be number 1 on this list by 10x if they would ever actually make it happen! 

Just do it FFS, temporary revenue from sweetheart contracts pales in comparison to volume and destination increase. 

 

Short-sighted IMHO. 

[IAmFloridaBorn]

30 minutes ago, gibby said:

Yeah, the ridership for both hospitals is terrible and I don't get it.

Well it's faster to get there by bus when you're downtown and train doesn't come for another 5wo hours. 

[codypet]

On 8/1/2018 at 9:20 PM, Jernigan said:

That fence should be gone soon if not already.   It was just meant to be there until the start of service.

Wife and I rode the train from Orlando Health to Kissimmee for a date night.   The fence was still there but I did notice a sidewalk leading to a newly built fence with a gate.  There was a second fence without a gate clearly on the shopping center property which I suspect is the one that was previously mentioned.

11 hours ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

Well it's faster to get there by bus when you're downtown and train doesn't come for another 5wo hours. 

Airport connect starts a chain reaction because the frequency of the service has to be 30 mins all day at a minimum.  You don't just connect downtown to the airport, but everyone from Deland to Haines City all of a sudden has decently quick access to the airport.  The losers end up being the offsite parking companies and the airport parking garages.   The rental cars and Mears don't start losing until the rest of the attractions area gets connected.   All those groups would rather not see Sunrail succeed.  I suspect Sunrail is operating the way it is right because all those parties have no reason to oppose it as it stands.  I would love to see it, but I believe its going to be the most difficult part of Sunrail to get built.

Sidenote:  The Meadow Woods station is a MONSTER!  That station has so much parking on each side.  Does it have more spaces than any other station?  I would love to see the numbers and would love to know where trips are originating for that station.  I always felt that was going to be a nothing station, but I completely forgot you're dealing with not just the Landstar/Meadow Woods neighborhoods, but Hunter's Creek and possibly Lake Nona as well.

[IAmFloridaBorn]

52 minutes ago, codypet said:

Wife and I rode the train from Orlando Health to Kissimmee for a date night.   The fence was still there but I did notice a sidewalk leading to a newly built fence with a gate.  There was a second fence without a gate clearly on the shopping center property which I suspect is the one that was previously mentioned.

Airport connect starts a chain reaction because the frequency of the service has to be 30 mins all day at a minimum.  You don't just connect downtown to the airport, but everyone from Deland to Haines City all of a sudden has decently quick access to the airport.  The losers end up being the offsite parking companies and the airport parking garages.   The rental cars and Mears don't start losing until the rest of the attractions area gets connected.   All those groups would rather not see Sunrail succeed.  I suspect Sunrail is operating the way it is right because all those parties have no reason to oppose it as it stands.  I would love to see it, but I believe its going to be the most difficult part of Sunrail to get built.

Sidenote:  The Meadow Woods station is a MONSTER!  That station has so much parking on each side.  Does it have more spaces than any other station?  I would love to see the numbers and would love to know where trips are originating for that station.  I always felt that was going to be a nothing station, but I completely forgot you're dealing with not just the Landstar/Meadow Woods neighborhoods, but Hunter's Creek and possibly Lake Nona as well.

I thought the same of the Meadow Woods Station it seems to be the biggest for park and ride

[Alleri459]

4 hours ago, codypet said:

Wife and I rode the train from Orlando Health to Kissimmee for a date night.   The fence was still there but I did notice a sidewalk leading to a newly built fence with a gate.  There was a second fence without a gate clearly on the shopping center property which I suspect is the one that was previously mentioned.

Airport connect starts a chain reaction because the frequency of the service has to be 30 mins all day at a minimum.  You don't just connect downtown to the airport, but everyone from Deland to Haines City all of a sudden has decently quick access to the airport.  The losers end up being the offsite parking companies and the airport parking garages.   The rental cars and Mears don't start losing until the rest of the attractions area gets connected.   All those groups would rather not see Sunrail succeed.  I suspect Sunrail is operating the way it is right because all those parties have no reason to oppose it as it stands.  I would love to see it, but I believe its going to be the most difficult part of Sunrail to get built.

Sidenote:  The Meadow Woods station is a MONSTER!  That station has so much parking on each side.  Does it have more spaces than any other station?  I would love to see the numbers and would love to know where trips are originating for that station.  I always felt that was going to be a nothing station, but I completely forgot you're dealing with not just the Landstar/Meadow Woods neighborhoods, but Hunter's Creek and possibly Lake Nona as well.

 

I have been staying with family in the Southchase neighborhood for a couple of weeks and on Wednesday morning decided to ride my bike to the Meadow Woods station since it is less than 10 minutes from the house. I was taking a quick trip on the 8:09 am southbound to the Kissimmee Station,  it was just me and another gentleman. The northbound platform though was at least 30 to 40 people and the parking lot was mostly full on both sides. It was mostly commuters in business attire, scrubs, people with briefcases. The train actually hit nearly 80mph before getting to Tupperware. Arriving at the Kissimmee station, a northbound train was arriving and had at least 20 people there waiting, again, obvious commuters, and people running to take the train. The Kissimmee station is beautiful, the greyhound stop, the Lynx superstop, and relatively close to Lakefront park. I took the northbound 8:54 am train back. There were quite a few commuters in scrubs and groups of elderly women excited to board on facebook live taking the train to Winter Park for the day. One of the Lynx employees handing out information on bus connections mentioned the Meadow Station has been very busy, since there are basically riders living 3 minutes from the station and walk now. Arriving back at the Meadow Woods the crowd was again at around 30 to 40 people.  This extension was definitely needed with all routes into Orlando from the south getting even more congested over the years.  

Edited August 3, 2018 by aleonrivera