SunRail

[codypet]

I just read the Sentinel article stating that the Sand Lake Station had a steep drop in ridership which makes sense.  All the more reason to make it the airport transfer station.

[jrs2]

51 minutes ago, codypet said:

I just read the Sentinel article stating that the Sand Lake Station had a steep drop in ridership which makes sense.  All the more reason to make it the airport transfer station.

had a steep drop since Monday?

 

4 hours ago, codypet said:

Wife and I rode the train from Orlando Health to Kissimmee for a date night.   The fence was still there but I did notice a sidewalk leading to a newly built fence with a gate.  There was a second fence without a gate clearly on the shopping center property which I suspect is the one that was previously mentioned.

do you mean the fence at the Tupperware Station?

[HankStrong]

38 minutes ago, codypet said:

I just read the Sentinel article stating that the Sand Lake Station had a steep drop in ridership which makes sense.  All the more reason to make it the airport transfer station.

I heard from a coworker that his brother-in-law is selling their second car thanks to extension.

Basic secondhand story with a lot of paraphrasing:

The BIL works in some sort of custodial-ish job at one of the hospitals.  Hospital gives them a cheaper rate on passes and he has driven his beater car to Sand Lake since to hop on and avoid the lovely I-4.  There was something about he's been there a long time and miraculously has a schedule that matches SunRail since we all know the hours/days suck for people who don't work a 9-5 which is basically most hospital workers who would use a train.  Now that train is open to Kissimmee, he can walk to station.   Has decided to sell car to a friend.  Less insurance.  Less gas.  Less maintenance.  Same SunRail pass.  Expenses down.  Enjoyment already up.

[codypet]

39 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

had a steep drop since Monday?

 

do you mean the fence at the Tupperware Station?

Steep drop as of Monday vs the previous months.

Yes the previous quote was referencing the Tupperware Station and the fence separating it from WalMart.

[sunshine]

Problem with ridership are because development around the station is not dense nor quick enough. The sooner they admit that and fix it, the sooner they can make money.

A train system that serve 3500 people a day is not going to make it. NY train system probably have that number within 10 minutes

[jrs2]

24 minutes ago, codypet said:

Steep drop as of Monday vs the previous months.

Yes the previous quote was referencing the Tupperware Station and the fence separating it from WalMart.

So the SLR Station must have had a bunch of "commuters" driving north to it from near the Meadowoods area.  Very interesting.  The new station exposes just where all the riders are coming from.

[IAmFloridaBorn]

4 hours ago, jrs2 said:

So the SLR Station must have had a bunch of "commuters" driving north to it from near the Meadowoods area.  Very interesting.  The new station exposes just where all the riders are coming from.

Sand Lake Was a Destination Station due to train termination. Now it is the only station that doesn't make sense unless you're going to airport or florida mall.

[Urban Mail Carrier]

8 hours ago, codypet said:

I just read the Sentinel article stating that the Sand Lake Station had a steep drop in ridership which makes sense.  All the more reason to make it the airport transfer station.

IMHO and I may not know much but I hope that when it's all said and done I hope that Sunrail actually travels to MCO to the train station vs merely dropping passengers off at a transfer station which are then picked up by some sort of light rail. In the long term that would actually facilitate an expansion of Sunrail to Lake Nona and St Cloud.

[IAmFloridaBorn]

37 minutes ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

IMHO and I may not know much but I hope that when it's all said and done I hope that Sunrail actually travels to MCO to the train station vs merely dropping passengers off at a transfer station which are then picked up by some sort of light rail. In the long term that would actually facilitate an expansion of Sunrail to Lake Nona and St Cloud.

You'd still have to catch an 'Airport' train due to everyone not needing to go to the airport. 

[Urban Mail Carrier]

Correct. I would assume then that the airport will be a busier station or hub. Commuters will then travel past through the airport stop on their way to a connection or transfer to the north and south line.  I was thinking that this could also be the start of a new line. stations would be St. Cloud, Lake Nona, MCO, Sand Lake, Orlando Health, Church St, and Lynx Central. This could provide overlap which in turn would be more frequency of trains. 15 minute wait times as opposed to 30 minute waits. The over Lap may benefit Orlando Health because the frequency of trains could solve the unpredictable hours of the health workers at the hospital. 

Edited August 4, 2018 by Urban Mail Carrier
More thought

[Jernigan]

19 hours ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

Sand Lake Was a Destination Station due to train termination. Now it is the only station that doesn't make sense unless you're going to airport or florida mall.

What was it a destination for before that it isn’t now?  

I imagine the drop in ridership is because trips that originated there before may now be starting further south. 

 

[IAmFloridaBorn]

1 hour ago, Jernigan said:

What was it a destination for before that it isn’t now?  

I imagine the drop in ridership is because trips that originated there before may now be starting further south. 

 

Well thats what I said. A Destination station due to the train terminating there. The stations further south are open so it's not a point where the line terminates. Meaning people further south and east have more flexible options to get on train as opposed to having to get on at Sand Lake.

[jrs2]

So, what’s next of the Sunrail agenda?

Is the Fed going to give us infrastructure money or not?

How was the rest of the Week 1 numbers for Sunrail?

[jrs2]

Check out the Wikipedia page on Sunrail.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SunRail

No that I consider Wiki a legit source, but for the airport link, one of the potential systems mentioned is an APM.  They also list Brightline.  

Edited August 9, 2018 by jrs2

[codypet]

Yes, both are being looked at.  I would suggest riding the APM between north and south terminals before deciding they want an APM.  That one is very loud and rough, and I can't understand why.

Couple of points

"The 2035 Polk County Mobility Vision Plan envisions extending SunRail into Polk County, with stations at Haines City, Auburndale, and Lakeland. Each station would be built in separate phases"

Haines City & Davenport seem to be a good  candidates for extension with all the development going on in the Posner Park area.

I didn't know this

"Seminole County officials have brought up the possibility of extending SunRail to Orlando Sanford International Airport via an existing 4-mile freight spur. The Florida Department of Transportation has a contractual option to buy the spur from CSX for 30 years after 2007 for $10"  

If its the spur I think it is, then its the one that goes into Winter Springs and ends.  The one that connects to the Cross Seminole Trail into Oviedo.  Another leg of that same spur goes to downtown Sanford.

Edited August 9, 2018 by codypet

[HankStrong]

25 minutes ago, codypet said:

"Seminole County officials have brought up the possibility of extending SunRail to Orlando Sanford International Airport via an existing 4-mile freight spur. The Florida Department of Transportation has a contractual option to buy the spur from CSX for 30 years after 2007 for $10"  

If its the spur I think it is, then its the one that goes into Winter Springs and ends.  The one that connects to the Cross Seminole Trail into Oviedo.  Another leg of that same spur goes to downtown Sanford.

HUH?   I think you might be way off in the line you're referring to.  I think.

 

EDITED TO ADD: no, you're not, you're just taking it way way way way further than they need to go to SFB.  That line does eventually go to Winter Springs to the South and ends at a trailhead.

 

See below.  Existing SunRail in green.  Spur to SFB in red.

 

Sanford SunRail station circled in red.

Edited August 9, 2018 by HankStrong

[codypet]

Oh yea.  I know I'm going past SFB, but I assume the $10 was to buy the whole spur.

[HankStrong]

4 hours ago, codypet said:

Oh yea.  I know I'm going past SFB, but I assume the $10 was to buy the whole spur.

For a whole $10, you'd hope so!!!

[codypet]

For $10 Sunrail gets land and tracks, but has to let CSX use them for deliveries still, and then gets to spend all the money to flatten curves, add positive train control, and upgrade the crossing signals.  Oh and I'm sure they're going to have to add quiet zones because people in Sanford would all of a sudden be annoyed by the horns and demand them.  CSX wins out on that one.

[Urban Mail Carrier]

I think it would be a good idea to purchase the track , however someone else speculated a couple of years earlier that the reason it hasn’t been purchased is because once u buy it u have to maintain the track. This increases operation costs. Thus probably Sunrail is waiting for the right moment.

Also once that track is purchased there are so many things u can do with it. 

1. Opens up the possibility of moving the existing Sanford station into it’s downtown.

2. Extend the line to UCF via 419 area. Which then opens up the possibility of new stations in Winter Springs, Oviedo and of course UCF.

3. Also u can expand from MCO northbound via an existing spur (which terminates somewhere in Avalon Park) and then build towards Winter Springs and connect to the SFB spur.  This creates the possibility of stops in Avalon Park, Lake Nona, UCF , Oviedo, Winter Springs and SFB.  Thus u would have both major airports directly connected via one line.

4. If they want to be more ambitious Daytona International airport can be connected if they continue building track northward from SFB . Then that opens up the possibility of more stations in Osteen, Deltona East, New Smyrna Beach and of course Daytona International airport. Can u imagine having all 3 major airports connected via one line? 

Speculating is fun. I’m sure it will cost a pretty penny!! 

Edited August 10, 2018 by Urban Mail Carrier

[spenser1058]

Is the state doing enough to make SunRail a success? The Sentinel thinks not:

SunRail — so much at stake
http://bit.ly/2KYycYh

[Jernigan]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

Is the state doing enough to make SunRail a success? The Sentinel thinks not:

SunRail — so much at stake
http://bit.ly/2KYycYh

That was a pretty pointless article, IMO.  I don’t disagree with the headline but it just said a lot of nothing 

[spenser1058]

1 minute ago, Jernigan said:

That was a pretty pointless article, IMO.  I don’t disagree with the headline but it just said a lot of nothing 

I disagree a little bit - there really doesn't seem to be much in the way of marketing going on. Getting folks out of their cars and onto transit takes a lot of education and reminders that we haven't seen.

Of course, if you accept that the state's interest in SunRail was always more about CSX than moving people, it makes perfect sense. They're just waiting for the handoff in 2021.

One other thing I thought of was that, when I lived in Atlanta and was first pondering a regular commute via MARTA rail, I spent several weekends wandering around just to get familiar with it rather than ending up late for work because I had no idea what I was doing.

I wonder how much of that we're losing out on with SunRail due to a lack of weekend service.

[Jernigan]

The part that got me was this:

———

The first two weeks seemed to bear out that promise. SunRail, which had languished at about 3,200 boardings each day, nearly doubled that number, thanks to the southern expansion.

That’s just dandy, but SunRail’s disappointing numbers up to now suggest something else is at work.

People just aren’t staying excited about the train. Initial enthusiasm is waning, not gaining, and it’s very possible that’s because the state isn’t doing enough to sell SunRail.

————-

Which I read as - ridership is up since the expansion but it went down last time so we suspect it’s going to go down again and even though we don’t know that it will let’s make more assertions from there in fact let’s write a whole article about it.

Again, agree with the headline I just think it’s timing and supportive arguements aren’t there and SunRail could use the media support that had some specific calls to action and/or criticism of specific players whether its government, employers, civic groups or whomever.   The criticism here was pretty nebulous.

[Ivanhoe]

The difference with the southern expansion, as I see it, is that it actually takes people where they need to go in a much more convenient manner than driving. That gives me hope for maintaining the ridership levels and hopefully increasing over time.