SunRail

[spenser1058]

30 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

I've posted similar statements here before, but basically I've had this conversation in person a dozen times.  The funny part is that the most vocal complainer in my life is now retired and uses the SunRail quite a bit now.  He goes to lunch in Winter Park and goes antiquing in Sanford & DeBary.  A few weeks ago he took his grandchildren on a full trip up and back from Kissimmee to DeBary to Poinciana and back to Kissimmee to be a fun grandpa.  He love SunRail and always has a monthly pass.

The argument boils down to this: how many dollars profit does ________ (insert non-toll road) make our government?  How many dollars profit do the street lights on your street make our government?  How many dollars does the retention pond in your neighborhood make our government?  The answer is that they aren't profit centers, they are for the good of all.  We pay taxes for services that we all don't use, but we as a collective all need to make life better.

Finding ways to decrease the impact of paying for these things is a great idea!  Waste is bad.  Charging a fee for busses or trains is understandable (although the current system for SunRail needs some tweaking) but it's not to make a profit.  It is to help offset some costs and sometimes for other reasons like keeping it from becoming a transient wagon.  Let's face it, the Siegels don't need SunRail, but the Johnson, Smith, and Gonzalez families might.  It's not a system for the rich, it's a system for working people.  Although, rich & famous people apparently ride the subway in NYC, so you never know.

The weird thing here is that DeLand is exactly the type of town that would use the crap out of SunRail and it would impact them with great growth.

There is a dichotomy of politics involved. DeLand, as the county seat and college town, is very blue.

The Volusia County Council was still trending blue back when the initial work was being done on SunRail.

Since then, with the growth of Republican-leaning Port Orange and with all the retirees moving to the LPGA area, Volusia is not only now red but will be increasingly so.

Add to that the fact current council members can’t benefit from the original deal that made SunRail palatable to the GOP and the majority doesn’t have an incentive to push it.

Unless something changes in Volusia politically, that window is closed for the foreseeable future.

[Urban Mail Carrier]

Volusia is it’s own worst enemy.

[codypet]

Well listening to that meeting, it seems like while the county commission wants to get out of the contract, they can't.  Their best possible hope out of it is if FDOT doesn't meet its commitments and doesn't build the Deland station, but even then its a big if.  Should FDOT pull off the federal funding to build Deland, Volusia is obligated to pay.  That commission seems to be lamenting having to do any of it despite reaping some of the benefits of it in TOD already.

[AmIReal]

There is an "Our View" column on DBNJ that pretty strongly argues how Volusia County was shafted throughout this process by SunRail and DOT. We can all agree on the future benefit of a Deland station, but it is hard to deny they were robbed of being able to recoup some initial costs during the transition period. There seems to be a pretty easy solution of offsetting some of Volusia's costs for 3-5 years after the handoff. However, as Spenser pointed out, I don't think the County has the political will to do it.

https://www.news-journalonline.com/opinion/20190716/our-view-volusia-countys-ready-to-fight-on-sunrail

 

[codypet]

"while stations that were never in the original plan were built and are now operating"

What station are they talking about?

[Urban Mail Carrier]

Maybe they are talking about the train station at MCO. There is a train station there but it was built by GOAA and Brightline.  Sunrail had nothing to do with it.  Not to mention that there are no tracks to bring trains in. 

[HankStrong]

40 minutes ago, codypet said:

"while stations that were never in the original plan were built and are now operating"

What station are they talking about?

I believe this is referring to Kissimmee and Poinciana stations, but they were in the original plan, just not in the 1st phase.  Those are the only 2 that could even fit that description. 

[Xander]

13 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

I believe this is referring to Kissimmee and Poinciana stations, but they were in the original plan, just not in the 1st phase.  Those are the only 2 that could even fit that description. 

Truly not fair that DeLand was never built, and i'm looking forward to any dialogue they have regarding making it happen. Really seems like Volusia can't get out of their own way, though.

[jrs2]

3 hours ago, codypet said:

I've always been of the opinion that Deland would benefit with a Sanford style trolley to downtown, and would benefit even more if they could get that station closer to downtown by using that industrial spur into town.  (That's probably not realistic though).  The other half of that coin would be to add the Orange City stop to take some of the load off of the Debary station.  That would be another suburban stop and would keep commuter traffic from flooding rural Deland.

I've thought the same thing about that spur.  what would it take to make that happen?

[codypet]

My understanding is they already own the spur, so its a matter of eminent dominating enough property to build a parking lot for the commuters that are going to leave that station.  You'd have to shift the land use from industrial/residential to the station and you might get blow back in the public meeting for the increase in roadway traffic which is why I think its unlikely.

[orange87]

Where exactly would this Deland Station be built?

[cwetteland]

I believe the station is quite a way west of the city out 44, almost to the St Johns.  Could be wrong.

[codypet]

15 hours ago, orange87 said:

Where exactly would this Deland Station be built?

My understanding is its going to be built here.

https://goo.gl/maps/rA3YN1dFDwW3frp89

I feel like the spots below would be better, but I understand how much harder that could be.

https://goo.gl/maps/32yPJaiRDqfi7od19

https://goo.gl/maps/oMTXNEM9jpeB7yKy8

[Urban Mail Carrier]

16 hours ago, orange87 said:

A. Site is the current site

B. Site is where many people feel it should be.

note the proximity of site B to downtown Deland and to Stetson University.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Urban Mail Carrier

[HankStrong]

B is 1000x better, but trickier.

[Jernigan]

1 hour ago, HankStrong said:

B is 1000x better, but trickier.

But worth it.  How is Sanford’s ridership as a destination compared to Kissimmee or Winter Park?  I’d imagine it’s not even close to Winter Park despite paying the ongoing costs of LYNX feeder route and a CRA funded bus on top of that.

[Urban Mail Carrier]

What’s even betteris that there is already a spur in place. But whoever planned did not have the vision. On another note what’s worse is that Delands business and political leaders did not object or push for the site to be in Downtown Deland. That just boggles the mind.

[Naqiy90]

1 hour ago, Jernigan said:

But worth it.  How is Sanford’s ridership as a destination compared to Kissimmee or Winter Park?  I’d imagine it’s not even close to Winter Park despite paying the ongoing costs of LYNX feeder route and a CRA funded bus on top of that.

This is the Station ridership, Sanford is quite low, although Sanford is not nearly the destination of Winter Park, being directly downtown couldn’t hurt. 

[Jernigan]

3 hours ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

What’s even betteris that there is already a spur in place. But whoever planned did not have the vision. On another note what’s worse is that Delands business and political leaders did not object or push for the site to be in Downtown Deland. That just boggles the mind.

It actually makes sense.   The current location let’s then build dense mid rise stuff that will bring in money for the city  (and probably for many of them personally as well).   It’s all about the real estate.  Best case is one day they add a 2nd stop downtown  after they’ve built out the other area 

[codypet]

@Jernigan  That's kind of the reason I thought the CR 15 location made sense.

[AmIReal]

During the meeting on Thursday Mayor Dyer was very direct with Volusia Chairman Kelley and said if Volusia wants out, now is the time to decide. Chairman Kelley said Volusia is ready to continue with their commitment to the Deland station. That means Sunrail will officially file with DOT for $34 million- which makes up the lost Federal share.

https://www.news-journalonline.com/news/20190718/sunrail-to-press-on-in-bid-for-deland-station

 

[IAmFloridaBorn]

Cool shot near where The Yard is being constructed 

[spenser1058]

4 hours ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

Cool shot near where The Yard is being constructed 

Ooooh! I really like this one, FloridaBorn

[spenser1058]

Latest numbers on SunRail:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-ne-sunrail-osceola-one-year-20190730-bqngq5mbkvhchibuwqrc2tprqe-story.html

From the Sentinel 

[Naqiy90]

5 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Latest numbers on SunRail:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-ne-sunrail-osceola-one-year-20190730-bqngq5mbkvhchibuwqrc2tprqe-story.html

From the Sentinel 

Ridership for the southern expansion is greatly exceeding expectations. Projections were for an additional 1800 riders while ridership has been averaging 3000 additional riders all year. 6500 riders is not a lot in the grand scheme of things, but it's a good start. If it ever gets weekend, holiday,  and more frequent service, and expanded to MCO and Deland, it will be a great asset to the region.