SunRail

[prahaboheme]

26 minutes ago, Naqiy90 said:

Ridership for the southern expansion is greatly exceeding expectations. Projections were for an additional 1800 riders while ridership has been averaging 3000 additional riders all year. 6500 riders is not a lot in the grand scheme of things, but it's a good start. If it ever gets weekend, holiday,  and more frequent service, and expanded to MCO and Deland, it will be a great asset to the region.

An extension down to Haines City would also be a huge asset to the overall system.

[IAmFloridaBorn]

2 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

An extension down to Haines City would also be a huge asset to the overall system.

Agreed but where does Orlando metro stop? Osceola or Polk County? 

[prahaboheme]

Just now, IAmFloridaBorn said:

Agreed but where does Orlando metro stop? Osceola or Polk County? 

Osceola probably - and I do think being amenable to how people live in central FL is critical to the success of SunRail.

[spenser1058]

Haines City (Polk County) is not part of the Orlando MSA but then neither is DeBary (Volusia County)so apparently they can go across the lines.

[popsiclebrandon]

Sorry but I just do not care about extending it to Haines City. Lets focus on getting key areas of the Orlando metro tied in before creating tiny Amtrak.

[Urban Mail Carrier]

3 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Haines City (Polk County) is not part of the Orlando MSA but then neither is DeBary (Volusia County)so apparently they can go across the lines.

Spence how can u not think that Southwest Volusia is not part of the Orlando Metro Area? U should see traffic originating from The Deland exit west bound on I 4 going towards Orlando. Everyone driving to Work and school in Orlando. 

[spenser1058]

26 minutes ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

Spence how can u not think that Southwest Volusia is not part of the Orlando Metro Area? U should see traffic originating from The Deland exit west bound on I 4 going towards Orlando. Everyone driving to Work and school in Orlando. 

If it were up to me, Volusia would be added. I’m referring to the legal definition of the Orlando MSA.

It currently includes 4 counties: Orange, Seminole, Osceola and Lake.

Volusia is included in the Orlando CSA, which is a different designation by the Census Bureau.

FWIW, the threshold is something like 15% regularly commuting into the MSA to add a new county. My guess is Southwest Volusia meets that but East Volusia doesn’t (with the exception on weekends in the opposite direction for beach runs :-).

Politics also plays a part and I have no clue how Volusia’s powers that be feel about it. The county’s population is large enough to stand on its own (same with Polk, which is even larger).I’m also not sure what the incentives are beyond bragging rights.

Edited July 31, 2019 by spenser1058

[HankStrong]

2 hours ago, popsiclebrandon said:

Sorry but I just do not care about extending it to Haines City. Lets focus on getting key areas of the Orlando metro tied in before creating tiny Amtrak.

I disagree.  I think the more riders we get, the more likely more lines are.  This is more of that low-hanging fruit.  I really want to see some higher fruit, but at this point fruit is fruit is fruit.

I'd prefer the OBX, the airport link, a few E/W lines, etc. 

[spenser1058]

The Orange Blossom Express would be the fruitiest. Haines City would just be Tang...

[gibby]

10 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

An extension down to Haines City would also be a huge asset to the overall system.

http://polktpo.com/what-we-do/our-planning-documents/sunrail-feasibility-study

 

[Naqiy90]

I think SunRail should be extended wherever cities want it as long as they're willing to put in the time, effort and money to make it happen. Commuter Rail Systems in places like Chicago, LA and NYC extend many miles outside what is considered the Metropolitan areas for those cities. More connectivity is never a bad thing. I don't think SunRail itself should dedicate resources towards expansion to Polk but if they want to spearhead expansion and put up matching local funds for the Feds by all means let it happen. Being able to commute to DTO from Polk would be great and no different than wealthy professionals commuting from hours away into Manhattan

[HankStrong]

48 minutes ago, gibby said:

http://polktpo.com/what-we-do/our-planning-documents/sunrail-feasibility-study

 

That's the least informative study I've seen in years. 

http://polktpo.com/docs/librariesprovider2/tpo/final-summary-report---2040-plan.pdf?sfvrsn=6

Page 21 if you don't want to use a microscope to read it.

[spenser1058]

1 minute ago, HankStrong said:

That's the least informative study I've seen in years. 

http://polktpo.com/docs/librariesprovider2/tpo/final-summary-report---2040-plan.pdf?sfvrsn=6

Page 21 if you don't want to use a microscope to read it.

You have to give Polk credit for creating demand where none exists. The Polk County Porkway is The Road That Has No Use and FPU is The University That No One Needs.

You have to admire their political clout, however. They’ve been punching way above their weight for the better part of a century.  Frankly, I’m jealous.

[Urban Mail Carrier]

6 hours ago, popsiclebrandon said:

Sorry but I just do not care about extending it to Haines City. Lets focus on getting key areas of the Orlando metro tied in before creating tiny Amtrak.

I agree with you. Extending for the sake of getting more ridership to other areas and then calling it Orlando doesn’t hold water. So if we extend it to Tampa does that mean Tampa is now Orlando. If we want more ridership then we extend and improve I n our Metro area, Lake Nona, St. Cloud, Clermont, Mt. Dora, Avalon Lakes and UCF.

[Xander]

3 minutes ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

I agree with you. Extending for the sake of getting more ridership to other areas and then calling it Orlando doesn’t hold water. So if we extend it to Tampa does that mean Tampa is now Orlando. If we want more ridership then we extend and improve I n our Metro area, Lake Nona, St. Cloud, Clermont, Mt. Dora, Avalon Lakes and UCF.

The Orange Blossom Express extension would be largely successful, I think. 

[Urban Mail Carrier]

4 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

If it were up to me, Volusia would be added. I’m referring to the legal definition of the Orlando MSA.

It currently includes 4 counties: Orange, Seminole, Osceola and Lake.

Volusia is included in the Orlando CSA, which is a different designation by the Census Bureau.

FWIW, the threshold is something like 15% regularly commuting into the MSA to add a new county. My guess is Southwest Volusia meets that but East Volusia doesn’t (with the exception on weekends in the opposite direction for beach runs :-).

Politics also plays a part and I have no clue how Volusia’s powers that be feel about it. The county’s population is large enough to stand on its own (same with Polk, which is even larger).I’m also not sure what the incentives are beyond bragging rights.

A little over the top on the response but thanks. Jajajajaja 

[popsiclebrandon]

Connecting UCF and the airport should be the main priorities IMO. Then theme parks if possible. Once it covers the places people in Orlando will be going the most then expand outward.

[prahaboheme]

Yikes - didn’t anticipate that a view on providing Polk county with access to SunRail would create such a visceral response. 

 

[HankStrong]

Not from me.  I still say it is a solid idea.  I want it to go from Daytona to Tampa and everywhere in between.

[Urban Mail Carrier]

1 hour ago, HankStrong said:

Not from me.  I still say it is a solid idea.  I want it to go from Daytona to Tampa and everywhere in between.

Not that I have anything against connecting to Haines City and Tampa and everything in between. That’s why u have Virgin trains and Amtrak. But it’s definitely not part of Metro Orlando. Then again not all towns are meant to have train stations.

[spenser1058]

It interests me the extent to which Amtrak is ignored on our forum even though it’s been providing daily service (with stations in three local downtowns, plus Sanford and DeLand!) throughout Florida for decades now.

Edited July 31, 2019 by spenser1058

[jrs2]

4 hours ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

I agree with you. Extending for the sake of getting more ridership to other areas and then calling it Orlando doesn’t hold water. So if we extend it to Tampa does that mean Tampa is now Orlando. If we want more ridership then we extend and improve I n our Metro area, Lake Nona, St. Cloud, Clermont, Mt. Dora, Avalon Lakes and UCF.

yes, but of course the only reason they consider Polk is because the tracks and easement are already there. 

Mt Dora has an easement and track ala OBX, but that's the only one unless you count the OUC spur and pay those bast@rds buku $$$ to use their line for Lake Nona- Avalon.  Just b/c their name has the word "Orlando" in it doesn't make it a public entity or Orlando or CRT friendly.  Tangent.  Sorry

[jrs2]

9 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

If it were up to me, Volusia would be added. I’m referring to the legal definition of the Orlando MSA.

It currently includes 4 counties: Orange, Seminole, Osceola and Lake.

Volusia is included in the Orlando CSA, which is a different designation by the Census Bureau.

FWIW, the threshold is something like 15% regularly commuting into the MSA to add a new county. My guess is Southwest Volusia meets that but East Volusia doesn’t (with the exception on weekends in the opposite direction for beach runs :-).

Politics also plays a part and I have no clue how Volusia’s powers that be feel about it. The county’s population is large enough to stand on its own (same with Polk, which is even larger).I’m also not sure what the incentives are beyond bragging rights.

you swung that hammer and hit the nail on its head. 

And I think your explanation is spot on and informative because all too often we use generalities to describe things that have actual legal definitions, and then get confused when we read an article or watch a report that describes what we see differently than what we think it is.  

[prahaboheme]

1 hour ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

Not that I have anything against connecting to Haines City and Tampa and everything in between. That’s why u have Virgin trains and Amtrak. But it’s definitely not part of Metro Orlando. Then again not all towns are meant to have train stations.

I'd argue that Haines and eastern Polk are a part of Orlando's "extended" metro.  Like someone previously mentioned, commuter trains in many metros extend outside the official boundaries of a metro area in order to reach nodes (for instance, New Haven - New York - Princeton, or metro rail in LA to Riverside, San Bernadino).  To put this in another perspective, the distance from WPB to Miami is about 75 miles, and it is covered by Tri-rail.  The distance from Orlando to Haines City is about 40 miles.

[jrs2]

10 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

I'd argue that Haines and eastern Polk are a part of Orlando's "extended" metro.  Like someone previously mentioned, commuter trains in many metros extend outside the official boundaries of a metro area in order to reach nodes (for instance, New Haven - New York - Princeton, or metro rail in LA to Riverside, San Bernadino).  To put this in another perspective, the distance from WPB to Miami is about 75 miles, and it is covered by Tri-rail.  The distance from Orlando to Haines City is about 40 miles.

METRA has or had a line that went into South bend, IN