SunRail

[spenser1058]

7 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

METRA has or had a line that went into South bend, IN

They wanted to hang out with Mayor Pete and Chasten! (or maybe just to go to Notre Dame games...)

I’m good with linking up with Haines City - that old hotel rocks!

https://www.florida-backroads-travel.com/haines-city-florida.html

Any chance we can get Polk and its largest employer out of their 1950’s mindset while we’re at it?

Edited July 31, 2019 by spenser1058

[gibby]

5 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

It interests me the extent to which Amtrak is ignored on our forum even though it’s been providing daily service (with stations in three local downtowns, plus Sanford and DeLand!) throughout Florida for decades now.

I've taken Amtrak to Tampa for day trips a few times and it's awesome.  It takes about 90 minutes.

[WAJAS]

You guys keep using examples of other cities like LA, but those extensions into neighboring MSAs didn’t occur until expansion in the core of the main MSA was at least partially begun.

 

I'm not against Polk having SunRail, but not yet.  We need to better serve those within the MSA before it starts expanding outside.

[Urban Mail Carrier]

Let’s stick to connections to Deland, MCO and our attractions areas and Orlando Metro. Then we can revisit Haines city and Lakeland after those more important connections have been built.

[WAJAS]

OBX and the airport should be the next two, considering both already have rail layer down and ROW owned in whole by a single entity.  We’d probably need to get FDOT to buy the ROW for OBX. That is unless the local governments find a permanent local funding source that does more than cover the bare minimum.

[codypet]

Whats interesting to me about OBX is the spur going to Lynx Central that pops up in a lot of planning docs including the I-4 Ultimate Design plans.  That spur would call for the demoing of ACE Cafe.

[spenser1058]

Oh my.

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, codypet said:

Whats interesting to me about OBX is the spur going to Lynx Central that pops up in a lot of planning docs including the I-4 Ultimate Design plans.  That spur would call for the demoing of ACE Cafe.

they would probably have to make it dock at Church St Station/CSP to make it work and avoid an Ace Cafe buyout, which would defeat the purpose of having a large Central Station at Lynx ala functionality and connectivity of different lines.  But...

10 hours ago, WAJAS98 said:

You guys keep using examples of other cities like LA, but those extensions into neighboring MSAs didn’t occur until expansion in the core of the main MSA was at least partially begun.

 

I'm not against Polk having SunRail, but not yet.  We need to better serve those within the MSA before it starts expanding outside.

I think they're gonna go with the station that gives them the most ridership, regardless of its location...that may be OIA but they gotta pay OUC like $200M + to do that.

Edited August 1, 2019 by jrs2

[jrs2]

10 hours ago, WAJAS98 said:

OBX and the airport should be the next two, considering both already have rail layer down and ROW owned in whole by a single entity.  We’d probably need to get FDOT to buy the ROW for OBX. That is unless the local governments find a permanent local funding source that does more than cover the bare minimum.

I don't see OBX ever happening.  If I recall correctly, when Sunrail was in development, the owners of the OBX line applied for federal $$$ to improve that track (and adjacent industrial properties they owned) while pitching the OBX idea.  I believe that was just a tactic to improve their freight line with OPM (other peoples' money) much like CSX did ala Sunrail.  They own real estate along that track much like FEC does ala Brightline and the stations in Miami, FTL, and WPB. 

 

[Urban Mail Carrier]

3 hours ago, codypet said:

Whats interesting to me about OBX is the spur going to Lynx Central that pops up in a lot of planning docs including the I-4 Ultimate Design plans.  That spur would call for the demoing of ACE Cafe.

That’s why I was disappointed that the plot of land was purchased by ACE cafe. It is ideally situated next to Lynx Central station where you could transfer from one line to another.

[spenser1058]

Short of a sweetheart deal for the Pinsley Railroad (or whoever owns those tracks these days) making it conducive due to the real estate*(and let’s face it, Mount Dora and Eustis are a far cry from Miami and Fort Lauderdale), the politics in Lake County are not there for OBX.

If you thought that the changing nature of the Volusia County Council makes it hard for the DeLand SunRail station to happen, those folks are wild-eyed liberals compared to the Lake County Commission. 

As more and more retirement projects spread south from The Villages, the voters simply are moving in the other direction from transit.

At one point, it seemed as if South Lake County might alter the demographics and voter base but projects like Del Webb (actually over the line in OC) are now making that unlikely as well.

*That’s assuming the Brightline/FEC model eventually works and, as of today, they’re still losing money hand over fist.

[codypet]

2 hours ago, jrs2 said:

I think they're gonna go with the station that gives them the most ridership, regardless of its location...that may be OIA but they gotta pay OUC like $200M + to do that.

Sooo Buddy has to tell OUC to play ball or someone else has to build a parallel rail line to shuttle between OIA and Meadow Woods......hmmm.

[jliv]

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, jrs2 said:

 

I think they're gonna go with the station that gives them the most ridership, regardless of its location...that may be OIA but they gotta pay OUC like $200M + to do that.

Not true.  Nowhere in the Sunrail Phase 3 study was an estimated land acquisition cost in that ballpark.  Anyhow, OUC is a public utility and would probably lease the ROW at a minimal cost.  The largest costs were related to building a bridge over Orange Ave to join up with the Meadow Woods station.

[jliv]

 

 

 

 

18 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Short of a sweetheart deal for the Pinsley Railroad (or whoever owns those tracks these days) making it conducive due to the real estate*(and let’s face it, Mount Dora and Eustis are a far cry from Miami and Fort Lauderdale), the politics in Lake County are not there for OBX.

If you thought that the changing nature of the Volusia County Council makes it hard for the DeLand SunRail station to happen, those folks are wild-eyed liberals compared to the Lake County Commission. 

As more and more retirement projects spread south from The Villages, the voters simply are moving in the other direction from transit.

At one point, it seemed as if South Lake County might alter the demographics and voter base but projects like Del Webb (actually over the line in OC) are now making that unlikely as well.

*That’s assuming the Brightline/FEC model eventually works and, as of today, they’re still losing money hand over fist.

There was already an FDOT study completed a few years back on the OBX corridor, and rail was disqualified due to the cost and lack of potential passengers.  The recommendation from the study was enhanced bus service to serve that corridor.  A future rail line would need significant local investment to happen because the state and the federal government likely wouldn't be providing significant funding. 

Edited August 1, 2019 by jliv

[codypet]

2 minutes ago, jliv said:

There was already an FDOT study completed a few years back on the OBX corridor, and rail was disqualified due to the cost and lack of potential passengers.  The recommendation from the study was enhanced bus service to serve that corridor.  A future rail line would need significant local investment to happen because the state and the federal government likely wouldn't be providing significant funding. 

You're right.  I do recall that.

7 minutes ago, jliv said:

Not true.  Nowhere in the Sunrail Phase 3 study was an estimated land acquisition cost in that ballpark.  Anyhow, OUC is a public utility and would probably lease the ROW at a minimal cost.  The largest costs were related to building a bridge over Orange Ave to join up with the Meadow Woods station.

If OUC is willing to lease the track.     They're not.  At least not without political pressure.

[spenser1058]

6 minutes ago, codypet said:

You're right.  I do recall that.

If OUC is willing to lease the track.     They're not.  At least not without political pressure.

OMG - you mean politics affect these projects? Don’t tell Hank - he’ll be devastated! 

[Urban Mail Carrier]

4 hours ago, jrs2 said:

they would probably have to make it dock at Church St Station/CSP to make it work and avoid an Ace Cafe buyout, which would defeat the purpose of having a large Central Station at Lynx ala functionality and connectivity of different lines.  But...

I think they're gonna go with the station that gives them the most ridership, regardless of its location...that may be OIA but they gotta pay OUC like $200M + to do that.

Another possibility is instead of having a train Dock or arrive from OBX at church st station is to simply modify the tracks Eastbound. Thus they’ll terminate in a parking lot just shy of the main tracks. In other words the station would be on Robinson.

[Urban Mail Carrier]

A. Lynx Central Station

B. Ace Cafe where ideally the OBX transfer would occur. Hence an expansion of Lynx Central Station.

C. The parking lot just shy of State st. The tracks would be deviated to terminate in a vacant parking lot.

D. Church st station.

Blue : actual north-south line.

green: present day OBX tracks

Red: deviated OBX tracks terminating at state st

[HankStrong]

There are going to be a lot of train crashes at C.

[Urban Mail Carrier]

I’m no civil engineer. I guess I’ll keep delivering mail lmao. Well it’s a crude drawing. The deviated line is not suppose to cross over the North to South line. I was eyeballing it last time I drove through there. Then again I didn’t bother to research the dimensions of a Sunrail platform. Someone please cure my ignorance.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Urban Mail Carrier

[Jernigan]

Some UCF/Valencia numbers from the SunRail try the train promotion -

~ 180 faculty/staff have registered a pass for the free trial

~ 550 students have done so 

~ FAMU learned of the promotion and asked to participate so they just received the marketing materials this week for their 250ish population.   

[gibby]

7 hours ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

Another possibility is instead of having a train Dock or arrive from OBX at church st station is to simply modify the tracks Eastbound. Thus they’ll terminate in a parking lot just shy of the main tracks. In other words the station would be on Robinson.

They should be able to just backup into Lynx Station.  The I-4 Ultimate plans show a new line wrapping around Ace but I'm not sure if it would be necessary.  Lynx should skinny up their parking bays and try to accommodate Greyhound, Megabus and Red Coach.

[codypet]

Back in the day the lot immediately to the north of Lynx was planned for the intercity bus terminal.  I don't know whatever happened to that.

[HankStrong]

15 hours ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

I’m no civil engineer. I guess I’ll keep delivering mail lmao. Well it’s a crude drawing. The deviated line is not suppose to cross over the North to South line. I was eyeballing it last time I drove through there. Then again I didn’t bother to research the dimensions of a Sunrail platform. Someone please cure my ignorance.

Just some good-natured ribbing.

[Urban Mail Carrier]

15 hours ago, Jernigan said:

Hank like u I LOVE TRAINS.