SunRail

[Urban Mail Carrier]

Volusia county joined Sunrail half heartedly from the get go. Some News articles hinted at it, their statements during commission meetings alluded to it, and Congressman  John Mica complained about it. Thus  no surprise but definitely disappointing. If their cash cow is Daytona Beach then they could have provided a robust VOTRAN service from Deland to Daytona. But they lacked vision, will and intelligence.

I wonder what this means for the rest of the Sunrail system and what decisions will be made. Seminole county Commissioner stated that it didn’t make  sense to even maintain the bridge over the St. Johns. Will there be more money and resources?

[codypet]

Yea that was interesting the first whiffs of them not crossing the bridge and all those TOD landowners are gonna be screaming.   I'm surprised the landowners west of 15A haven't been screaming already.

[spenser1058]

This was totally predictable, of course. Former Volusia County Council Chair Frank Bruno (back when SunRail got started) was a true statesman in the job and worked with both sides to make it a go.

Current Chair Ed Kelley is the former Ormond Beach mayor who has always been as tight-fisted as the city he led and generally uninterested in the needs of West Volusia.

With the changing demographics of Volusia, there are going to be a lot more Ed Kelleys in its future than Frank Brunos.

I’m with the Seminole commissioner who suggests it’s time to cut our losses and just stop south of the river.

Ironically, with Polk becoming more purple, the idea to run south looks a lot more attractive today.

 

Edited August 31, 2019 by spenser1058

[Jernigan]

West Volusia should become part of Seminole and the east side can merge with Flagler.

[HankStrong]

There is dumb and there is dumb.  This is super dumb.

[codypet]

Well if you listen to Ed, he wants his cake and eating it too.

[jrs2]

On 8/30/2019 at 10:11 AM, AmIReal said:

Volusia taps out...

https://www.news-journalonline.com/news/20190829/volusia-asks-out-of-sunrail-to-deland-deal

The Feds made money available for the Deland extension ($34 million), but Volusia says no. They want to keep Debary and pay for that maintenance, but have requested to be removed from the binding multi-county agreement and relinquish the seat on the board.

From the article...

"Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer attempted to understand Kelley’s proposition.

“You will continue to pay for the maintenance on the DeBary station and you will no longer have a seat on this board?” Dyer asked.

“That would be great. Can we do that right now?” Kelley said."

so what is really going on with Volusia?  Are they hoping Sunrail abandons the Debary station?

[AmIReal]

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

so what is really going on with Volusia?  Are they hoping Sunrail abandons the Debary station?

I believe they would be fine with that outcome. 

[jrs2]

24 minutes ago, AmIReal said:

I believe they would be fine with that outcome. 

are they trying to be another Cobb County?

[Urban Mail Carrier]

With no hope in sight to expand transit in Volusia there is a need that needs to be met. I wonder if that could mean Ferry service on Lake Monroe from Deltona to Sanford as proposed by some circles.

[EngineerNole]

On 8/22/2019 at 4:11 PM, Urban Mail Carrier said:

I believe that for Mass transit to take root, Orlando and Orange County must lead the way. Volusia, Seminole and Osceola will follow at their own pace. Orlando is the regional leader, so it must start with them.

Mass transit is unrealistic for Orlando.  It was built around the automobile and is far too spread out.  In order to implement a successful mass transit system, you would have to build billions of dollars worth of networks east/west and north/south.  It’s an economic loser.  The best bet is automated vehicles, which is a lot more realistic.  In my head, I imagine a rental car system in the future with automated vehicles, similar to the movie Minority Report.  However, this will be a long time from now.  Raising taxes for more rail is a colossal waste imo.

[smileguy]

21 minutes ago, EngineerNole said:

Mass transit is unrealistic for Orlando.  It was built around the automobile and is far too spread out.  In order to implement a successful mass transit system, you would have to build billions of dollars worth of networks east/west and north/south.  It’s an economic loser.  The best bet is automated vehicles, which is a lot more realistic.  In my head, I imagine a rental car system in the future with automated vehicles, similar to the movie Minority Report.  However, this will be a long time from now.  Raising taxes for more rail is a colossal waste imo.

I think we can look to Phoenix, which is continuing to expand their light rail system in a region that is at least as auto-centric as Orlando -- if not more.  I don't think rail is the answer. As discussed here, true BRT can provide much more impact for less money.  It comes down to modernizing the region's transit system, which is a risk and is not free (the roads we drive on now weren't free either -- and continue to be subsidized) which will be an economic gain. By re-developing at higher density to try to curtail some of the sprawl in the region, all government services - power, water, sewage, public safety, etc. - can be provided at greater efficiency. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/28/us/phoenix-light-rail.html

[AmIReal]

Sunrail will add a later train SB on Magic home game nights.

 "If passengers—attending the game or staying downtown late—wish to take the southbound train home those nights, they should make their way to the southbound platform at Church Street Station, where the train will stage and leave for points south at 10:30 p.m."

There is already a NB train leaving around that time.

https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/sunrail-running-later-train-for-orlando-magic-game-nights

[spenser1058]

Mayor Demings thinks adding nodes to different parts of the county may be possible for SunRail if the transit tax passes in 2020:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/orange-county/os-ne-demings-sunrail-mobility-week-20191031-eto76znnhjelpcn6alr6b66yee-story.html

From the Sentinel 

[HankStrong]

27 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Mayor Demings thinks adding nodes to different parts of the county may be possible for SunRail if the transit tax passes in 2020:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/orange-county/os-ne-demings-sunrail-mobility-week-20191031-eto76znnhjelpcn6alr6b66yee-story.html

From the Sentinel 

I will be a fan boy if this happens.

[prahaboheme]

I'd really love to see them dust off those old light rail plans from downtown to I-Drive and make it happen.  Orlando metro has added more than 15 million tourists a year since those plans were rejected (by a single vote)  and it stands to reason that it would pass now.

With the gridlock in the I-Drive only increasing (especially with Universal's expansion), there has never been a better time for a true light rail system (better yet, heavy rail...one can dream!).

By the way, does anyone have a map of the proposed light rail route from the 90s?  Can't seem to locate anything about the plans.

[spenser1058]

Where have you gone, Clarence Hoenstine?

[prahaboheme]

16 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Where have you gone, Clarence Hoenstine?

Remember when the Orlando Sentinel endorsed him?

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-1998-08-21-9808200710-story.html

[spenser1058]

11 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

Remember when the Orlando Sentinel endorsed him?

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-1998-08-21-9808200710-story.html

Sadly, the Sentinel has had some real Head-scratching endorsements over the years.

Meanwhile, if you want to geek out and see the history of transit in OC. this is the report for you. It’s by Dave Grovdahl.

It covers Maglev the first time around (and describes why no one took it seriously when it rose from the dead in the ‘aughts), monorails, bullet trains and all sorts of stuff.

The rise and fall of light rail is covered in Chapter 3:

http://floridacoalitionofrailpassengers.memberlodge.com/resources/Pictures/Metroplan Orlando Chronology of Passenger Rail.pdf

Edited October 31, 2019 by spenser1058

[orlandouprise]

14 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Sadly, the Sentinel has had some real Head-scratching endorsements over the years.

Meanwhile, if you want to geek out and see the history of transit in OC. this is the report for you. It’s by Dave Grovdahl.

It covers Maglev the first time around (and describes why no one took it seriously when it rose from the dead in the ‘aughts), monorails, bullet trains and all sorts of stuff.

The rise and fall of light rail is covered in Chapter 3:

http://floridacoalitionofrailpassengers.memberlodge.com/resources/Pictures/Metroplan Orlando Chronology of Passenger Rail.pdf

This is depressing. We went from LR to Monorail to elevated LR and ended up with a half assed choo-choo train. This got Orlandoed once again...

[Jernigan]

43 minutes ago, orlandouprise said:

This is depressing. We went from LR to Monorail to elevated LR and ended up with a half assed choo-choo train. This got Orlandoed once again...

Is that accurate? I can’t imagine there was ever going to be a light rail from Debary to Poinciana.

[spenser1058]

14 minutes ago, Jernigan said:

Is that accurate? I can’t imagine there was ever going to be a light rail from Debary to Poinciana.

There were a variety of plans floated when it looked like the feds were going to have an open checkbook. That got shot down pretty quickly. At the time, Volusia was much more amenable politically than it is today.

Sometimes things get floated just to grab the money like the proposed people mover between Colonial Plaza and Fashion Square. That one understandably went to downtown Jax.

It would have made sense if it could get funding because both Deltona and Poinciana were exploding like a house on fire population-wise at the time.

Edited November 1, 2019 by spenser1058

[steve_o]

2 hours ago, Jernigan said:

Is that accurate? I can’t imagine there was ever going to be a light rail from Debary to Poinciana.

LR was part of the 2020 plan that got shot down in the late 90s running from Altamonte to I-drive.  Would have been fantastic for the city had 1 member not voted against it.  Federal money was secured but ultimately got taken away and given to Charlotte where their (ironically named LYNX) blue line was built and now is the center of a corporate explosion and billions of dollars of job producing activity. 

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/orl-asecroads21042102apr21-story.html

Edited November 1, 2019 by steve_o

[Dale]

15 minutes ago, steve_o said:

LR was part of the 2020 plan that got shot down in the late 90s running from Altamonte to I-drive.  Would have been fantastic for the city had 1 member not voted against it.  Federal money was secured but ultimately got taken away and given to Charlotte where their (ironically named LYNX) blue line was built and now is the center of a corporate explosion and billions of dollars of job producing activity. 

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/orl-asecroads21042102apr21-story.html

And if it’s any consolation, Charlotte’s light rail continues to underwhelm.

[spenser1058]

1 hour ago, Dale said:

And if it’s any consolation, Charlotte’s light rail continues to underwhelm.

https://www.charlotteagenda.com/162599/with-58-million-riders-and-3-5-billion-in-development-the-blue-line-is-one-of-charlottes-biggest-success-stories/