SunRail

[Urban Mail Carrier]

The first few lines that I can only read mentions a proposed plan to come into the county. What’s that all about?

[AmIReal]

11 minutes ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

The first few lines that I can only read mentions a proposed plan to come into the county. What’s that all about?

That is the extension that was in the original agreement that would extend past Debary to Deland- this section is the point of contention. It did  not get built when it was supposed to, the land has not been acquired, the route is not funded and the State matching funds are coming to an end so the County want to abandon that leg. However, it is in the formal agreement and they are required to go forward with it. The County is trying to negotiate removal of that leg, or (maybe) changing the matching fund agreement to last longer.

[spenser1058]

As the politics have changed in the counties, their commitments have changed. Osceola and Orange have moved ever further to a pro-transit stance, Seminole is still more in the middle but the suburbanites who make up the county like the idea of not being Auto-dependent.

Volusia, when transit was conceived both for light rail and later for commuter rail, was run by a fairly progressive group. Their congressman, John Mica, while a conservative, was a committee chairman in Congress (transportation) and his power came from doing deals. His Republican crowd was enhanced by lining up with Jeb!and CSX for the mother of all sweetheart deals. Life was good.

Today, the growing part of Volusia is no longer Deltona, which made the county Democratic; instead, the growth areas are Port Orange and LPGA which are Republican and have flipped the county.

Neither of those areas benefit from SunRail, John Mica is history and the political default is anti-transit. The current county council chairman is the former mayor of Ormond Beach (long the county’s conservative stronghold).

As a result, there is almost no appetite now in Volusia to spend further money on SunRail. DeLand, as county seat and college town, is a blue island  in a sea of what will become an ever redder and redder ocean.

That being the case, is it wiser to force those who really don’t want SunRail anymore to stay in the fold, working against anything you plan in the future, or achieve an amicable divorce so both sides can go their own way with minimal bloodshed.

We’ll see if wisdom prevails.

 

[Urban Mail Carrier]

The blue islands of Deland, Deltona, Orange City and Debary are close enough to moderate Seminole county, maybe they should secede. LOL

[Jernigan]

26 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

As the politics have changed in the counties, their commitments have changed. Osceola and Orange have moved ever further to a pro-transit stance, Seminole is still more in the middle but the suburbanites who make up the county like the idea of not being Auto-dependent.

Volusia, when transit was conceived both for light rail and later for commuter rail, was run by a fairly progressive group. Their congressman, John Mica, while a conservative, was a committee chairman in Congress (transportation) and his power came from doing deals. His Republican crowd was enhanced by lining up with Jeb!and CSX for the mother of all sweetheart deals. Life was good.

Today, the growing part of Volusia is no longer Deltona, which made the county Democratic; instead, the growth areas are Port Orange and LPGA which are Republican and have flipped the county.

Neither of those areas benefit from SunRail, John Mica is history and the political default is anti-transit. The current county council chairman is the former mayor of Ormond Beach (long the county’s conservative stronghold).

As a result, there is almost no appetite now in Volusia to spend further money on SunRail. DeLand, as county seat and college town, is a blue island  in a sea of what will become an ever redder and redder ocean.

That being the case, is it wiser to force those who really don’t want SunRail anymore to stay in the fold, working against anything you plan in the future, or achieve an amicable divorce so both sides can go their own way with minimal bloodshed.

We’ll see if wisdom prevails.

 

Politics aside, does commuter rail to the coast make sense?  Man, that’s a peaceful stretch of I4 even during rush hour.  
 

[spenser1058]

8 minutes ago, Jernigan said:

Politics aside, does commuter rail to the coast make sense?  Man, that’s a peaceful stretch of I4 even during rush hour.  
 

You’re probably right, but the thing is, regardless of the logic, it’s something  the county is spending money on that the bulk of the population sees no benefit from.

Given few ties to the community and an inherent dislike for taxes among the demographic of the newest residents, they’re likely to oppose it and their leaders are happy to accommodate their views.

East and West Volusia have little in common and if you were starting over, you wouldn’t lump them together. That, however, is the situation we have.

Edited January 9, 2020 by spenser1058

[Urban Mail Carrier]

I believe the Daytona Beach area has much to contribute. Embry Riddle University, Daytona Beach International Airport and the Daytona Speedway and Halifax are all in the same area. Placing a station in that area alone will boost ridership. Also the area has the Daytona 500 and Bikefest events that draw thousands and thousands of participants. 

[spenser1058]

24 minutes ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

I believe the Daytona Beach area has much to contribute. Embry Riddle University, Daytona Beach International Airport and the Daytona Speedway and Halifax are all in the same area. Placing a station in that area alone will boost ridership. Also the area has the Daytona 500 and Bikefest events that draw thousands and thousands of participants. 

The current plans (which has all sorts of questions as to how to pay for it) terminate in DeLand. I totally agree going to East Volusia makes sense but how do you pay for it? If there are tracks between DeLand and Daytona, who owns them?

This map does not indicate there are and I haven’t encountered any. If there aren’t, building a new line makes the price jump a good bit.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Florida/Railroads

Edited January 9, 2020 by spenser1058

[Urban Mail Carrier]

I simply don’t know.. As u probably can recall, Volusia commissioned a Study on extending to Daytona Beach vía I 4 and the conclusion was that it would cost up to a $1 Billion. U can imagine that Volusia quickly shelved the idea. This backwards county can’t even palate the idea of spending $19 million to pay for their share of the system, much less $1 billion. Perhaps a transit friendly State of Florida administration will be elected in the future that may spearhead Sunrail forward. Seems like Metro Orlando stops at Debary or Sanford .

Edited January 10, 2020 by Urban Mail Carrier

[spenser1058]

19 minutes ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

I simply don’t know.. As u probably can recall, Volusia commissioned a Study on extending to Daytona Beach vía I 4 and the conclusion was that it would cost up to a $1 Billion. U can imagine that Volusia quickly shelved the idea. This backwards county can’t even palate the idea of spending $19 million to pay for their share of the system, much less $1 billion. Perhaps a transit friendly State of Florida administration will be elected in the future that may spearhead Sunrail forward. Seems like Metro Orlando stops at Debary or Sanford .

The MSA stops at Sanford (although rural Lake County extends north and west of DeLand). The CSA does include Volusia, though.

I know we like to pretend that politics don’t exist in here, but the simple truth is one of the two parties dislike transit unless it can be part of a profit-making scheme for corporations they’re aligned with. Their aversion is even in their national platform and conservative columnist George Will has even written that reliance on transit makes people  too subservient to government (he also thinks jeans are a Communist plot, so take it with a grain of salt).

Until things change in Tallahassee, don’t expect much in the way of transit. Then, the next time the feds offer us several hundred million dollars for a light rail system, make sure no Clarence Hoenstines come along to derail it. Thankfully, since that debacle, the Orange County Commission is Under New Management. Hope springs eternal.

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by spenser1058

[stevenycer1]

17 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

As the politics have changed in the counties, their commitments have changed. Osceola and Orange have moved ever further to a pro-transit stance, Seminole is still more in the middle but the suburbanites who make up the county like the idea of not being Auto-dependent.

Volusia, when transit was conceived both for light rail and later for commuter rail, was run by a fairly progressive group. Their congressman, John Mica, while a conservative, was a committee chairman in Congress (transportation) and his power came from doing deals. His Republican crowd was enhanced by lining up with Jeb!and CSX for the mother of all sweetheart deals. Life was good.

Today, the growing part of Volusia is no longer Deltona, which made the county Democratic; instead, the growth areas are Port Orange and LPGA which are Republican and have flipped the county.

Neither of those areas benefit from SunRail, John Mica is history and the political default is anti-transit. The current county council chairman is the former mayor of Ormond Beach (long the county’s conservative stronghold).

As a result, there is almost no appetite now in Volusia to spend further money on SunRail. DeLand, as county seat and college town, is a blue island  in a sea of what will become an ever redder and redder ocean.

That being the case, is it wiser to force those who really don’t want SunRail anymore to stay in the fold, working against anything you plan in the future, or achieve an amicable divorce so both sides can go their own way with minimal bloodshed.

We’ll see if wisdom prevails.

 

I'd be more concerned about saving Debary's only connection run by Votran, funded by FLDOT I'm assuming also into 2021?  Buses connects with SOME of Sunrail service, with an hour ride (12 miles!) into Deltona.  

[Urban Mail Carrier]

Like I said a bonafide backwards county. Can’t even provide a reliable bus service to connect to the Debary station. Even so Debary is one of the more busier stops, imagine with planned VOTRAN connectivity and a stop in Deland how much busier it would be.  
I realize that the county was upset about the Deland Station lagging behind but in the end the money was found. The money is there! Osceola county was also screwed and all the counties made concessions for Volusia sake. They should just build the station, everything is in place.

[jliv]

Like I said a bonafide backwards county. Can’t even provide a reliable bus service to connect to the Debary station. Even so Debary is one of the more busier stops, imagine with planned VOTRAN connectivity and a stop in Deland how much busier it would be.  
I realize that the county was upset about the Deland Station lagging behind but in the end the money was found. The money is there! Osceola county was also screwed and all the counties made concessions for Volusia sake. They should just build the station, everything is in place.

Never once, in my years of growing up in Central Florida, did I ever get excited about the possibility of heading to Daytona Beach. Oh yay. Loads of retirees, mullets, and air-brushed T-shirts. Morrissey once wrote a song about the Essex seaside town Southend called “Everyday is Like Sunday”. There’s a choice phrase in it: “ In the seaside town
That they forgot to bomb
Come, come, come, nuclear bomb…”. When I finally visited Southend last year, I exclaimed, “This is BLOODY Daytona Beach!” I won’t joke about bombings in our current climate, but it needed a “touch up” in the 80’s and 90’s.

Is it still like that?


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[stevenycer1]

Central Florida Commuter Rail Commission Customer Advisory Committee, January 9th, 2020

https://corporate.sunrail.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/CAC-Meeting-Material-Update-5.pdf 

 

 

[Urban Mail Carrier]

I was there recently on my way back from Charlotte and we stopped at the PF Chang’s across the speedway and I almost didn’t recognize it. Lots of Development !! Definitely improved..

[AmIReal]

1 hour ago, jliv said:

Is it still like that?

Most of everything that is east of Nova Rd, yes. The space between I-95 and Nova is exploding with growth, so much so it is spilling west toward Deland.

Lot's of stuff beginning to happen in the bowels of the City- between Nova and the beach, but  Daytona is likely to find the way to screw it up.

[spenser1058]

https://www.floridamemory.com/items/show/139632

Who needs SunRail?

From Florida Memory 

[jrs2]

On 1/9/2020 at 8:49 PM, Urban Mail Carrier said:

I simply don’t know.. As u probably can recall, Volusia commissioned a Study on extending to Daytona Beach vía I 4 and the conclusion was that it would cost up to a $1 Billion. U can imagine that Volusia quickly shelved the idea. This backwards county can’t even palate the idea of spending $19 million to pay for their share of the system, much less $1 billion. Perhaps a transit friendly State of Florida administration will be elected in the future that may spearhead Sunrail forward. Seems like Metro Orlando stops at Debary or Sanford .

is there a study to show how many people commute to Seminole from Daytona Beach proper?  How about to DeLand from Daytona Beach?  I think that would dictate the feasibility or need for CRT to connect Daytona to those two areas.

If anything, most or a lot of the residents of West Volusia commute into Orange and Seminole for work.

I am very familiar with Daytona and even I couldn't see the justification to spend all that money to not only connect the DeLand station to DeLand's CBD, but then carve out an easement to get it to US 92 and end the line somewhere near the Speedway- because extending it east of Midway/DAB/Houligan's would be very cost restrictive.

 

[jrs2]

On 1/10/2020 at 12:03 PM, jliv said:

 

Never once, in my years of growing up in Central Florida, did I ever get excited about the possibility of heading to Daytona Beach. Oh yay. Loads of retirees, mullets, and air-brushed T-shirts. Morrissey once wrote a song about the Essex seaside town Southend called “Everyday is Like Sunday”. There’s a choice phrase in it: “ In the seaside town
That they forgot to bomb
Come, come, come, nuclear bomb…”. When I finally visited Southend last year, I exclaimed, “This is BLOODY Daytona Beach!” I won’t joke about bombings in our current climate, but it needed a “touch up” in the 80’s and 90’s.

Is it still like that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Depends (no pun on old people) on what you're looking for.  A1A has it's moments, so does Beach Street.  You just gotta know where to go. If you like the water, there are places to eat at on the Intracoastal and on the beach.  Retirees?  Welcome to Florida.  Clubs?  there are a few on Seabreeze.  

As for new developments- One Daytona, Tomoka Town Center, for retail, entertainment, food, the new Landshark/Crabby's on A1A, the bar at Streamline Hotel, the Hard Rock Hotel and it's offerings, a few new restaurants and renovations at Volusia Mall (Houligan's, Olive Garden, Bahama Breeze, Cheddar's, Fish Bones, Metro Diner), renovated Volusia Point Plaza between Volusia Mall and One Daytona with a new Mexican Restaurant, etc., Granada Plaza on SR 40 & A1A with new Jimmy Hula's I believe and other redo's.  New stuff is sprinkled around east VoCo.

Again, depends on what you're looking for.  East of the Speedway (no, not the gas station chain) you've seen improvements at Embry Riddle, Daytona State, and BCU.  From the US 92 bridge to A1A, it is a dead zone sans  the breakfast place at Peninsula.  It's an embarrassment to the County.  The rest of the US 92 corridor is commercial- newer Toyota dealership but several closed businesses.  Age old yet popular Krispy Kreme is alive and kicking at Nova.

[spenser1058]

15 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

Depends (no pun on old people) on what you're looking for.  A1A has it's moments, so does Beach Street.  You just gotta know where to go. If you like the water, there are places to eat at on the Intracoastal and on the beach.  Retirees?  Welcome to Florida.  Clubs?  there are a few on Seabreeze.  

As for new developments- One Daytona, Tomoka Town Center, for retail, entertainment, food, the new Landshark/Crabby's on A1A, the bar at Streamline Hotel, the Hard Rock Hotel and it's offerings, a few new restaurants and renovations at Volusia Mall (Houligan's, Olive Garden, Bahama Breeze, Cheddar's, Fish Bones, Metro Diner), renovated Volusia Point Plaza between Volusia Mall and One Daytona with a new Mexican Restaurant, etc., Granada Plaza on SR 40 & A1A with new Jimmy Hula's I believe and other redo's.  New stuff is sprinkled around east VoCo.

Again, depends on what you're looking for.  East of the Speedway (no, not the gas station chain) you've seen improvements at Embry Riddle, Daytona State, and BCU.  From the US 92 bridge to A1A, it is a dead zone sans  the breakfast place at Peninsula.  It's an embarrassment to the County.  The rest of the US 92 corridor is commercial- newer Toyota dealership but several closed businesses.  Age old yet popular Krispy Kreme is alive and kicking at Nova.

Don’t forget the beach although the yahoos in government keep trying to ruin “The World’s Most Famous Beach” and “The Birthplace of Speed” by privatizing it and chopping up a true wondrous expanse of sand and freedom into something as generic as every other beach town in the country. 

And they wonder why occupancy has been on the downswing. 

There’s more that they’ve lost on the beachside and fewer people are coming to the races but I won’ go into those here. Bottom line: why did they do away with what made Daytona Daytona?

Edited January 20, 2020 by spenser1058

[leondecollao]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

Don’t forget the beach although the yahoos in government keep trying to ruin “The World’s Most Famous Beach” and “The Birthplace of Speed” by privatizing it and chopping up a true wondrous expanse of sand and freedom into something as generic as every other beach town in the country. 

And they wonder why occupancy has been on the downswing. 

There’s more that they’ve lost on the beachside and fewer people are coming to the races but I won’ go into those here. Bottom line: why did they do away with what made Daytona Daytona?

You are going to have a really hard time finding anyone willing to save whatever it is that made Daytona Daytona. And I grew up there. 

[spenser1058]

28 minutes ago, leondecollao said:

You are going to have a really hard time finding anyone willing to save whatever it is that made Daytona Daytona. And I grew up there. 

I agree with you. If I had to guess, I’d say no one in the city’s power structure lives on the peninsula these days and it shows.

As a result, I think they pretend if they ignore it, it will just run itself.

Fortunately, NSB’s not like that, so I just stay south of Ponce Inlet these days. It’s still a shame, though.

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Don’t forget the beach although the yahoos in government keep trying to ruin “The World’s Most Famous Beach” and “The Birthplace of Speed” by privatizing it and chopping up a true wondrous expanse of sand and freedom into something as generic as every other beach town in the country. 

And they wonder why occupancy has been on the downswing. 

There’s more that they’ve lost on the beachside and fewer people are coming to the races but I won’ go into those here. Bottom line: why did they do away with what made Daytona Daytona?

Another "positive" development I forgot about.  The former Mayan Inn on Ocean Ave...Comfort Inn took it over, discarded it's theme, and renovated it.  The bad:  it lost it's theme which was very cool.  The good:  It's a chain now which can help market the immediate area.  The next closest chain is Hilton then Wyndham then Hard Rock then Holiday Inn to the north.  To the south, I am not sure where the next closest hotel chain is.  It may be the 701 South hotel which I think is a timeshare if I am remembering it right.

[spenser1058]

@jrs2, were you just a spring break party animal back in the day? *grins*

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

@jrs2, were you just a spring break party animal back in the day? *grins*

I went to all of the events that I could go to as an adolescent.  But as a teen, I just hung out with my crew doing underaged drinking and cruising A1A and doing Greg Alman or his lookalike sightings.