SunRail

[codypet]

2 hours ago, gibby said:

So, would this be the line Brightline uses to get to Tampa or would there be two routes leaving from the airport toward the west/southwest?

Nah Brightline's MO is to lease tracks if they can.  Keep the costs down.

[HankStrong]

17 hours ago, gibby said:

So, would this be the line Brightline uses to get to Tampa or would there be two routes leaving from the airport toward the west/southwest?

If it happens, this would be a shared line.

[gibby]

Is the proposal to use the 417 still active or would this new route near the OCCC replace it?

[jrs2]

On 12/14/2022 at 9:13 AM, dcluley98 said:

TriRail has a Boca Station. Not sure on Aventura area. I know some of the new BrightLine stations (including the Aventura station) they are building also were designed for "dual access" of systems with multiple separate areas for BrightLine intercity as well as local/commuter service. There is discussion about that on the Roaming Railfan YouTube video updates.

 

I know its asking a lot from BL, but, how are you supposed to get to Aventura Mall from that station?  You would have to get an Uber just to go across the tracks but via the next closest intersection to the north or south.  If they could've done a very long skywalk into the closest Mall garage that would have been nice (directly to the east).

48 minutes ago, gibby said:

Is the proposal to use the 417 still active or would this new route near the OCCC replace it?

I think it is designed to replace it.

[dcluley98]

Phase 3 of the project in original plan was a pedestrian bridge to the East over Biscayne Blvd and to the Aventura Mall. I worked on original RFP submission a couple years ago. 

Zyscovich was the architect:

https://www.zyscovich.com/projects-item/brightline-aventura-station/

Edited January 12, 2023 by dcluley98

[jgardnerucf]

5 hours ago, jrs2 said:

6 hours ago, gibby said:

Is the proposal to use the 417 still active or would this new route near the OCCC replace it?

I think it is designed to replace it.

Using the OBT/landstreet spur to get to the Beeline easement.

[jrs2]

On 1/12/2023 at 5:57 PM, jgardnerucf said:

Using the OBT/landstreet spur to get to the Beeline easement.

how do you think this alignment will work?  It seems to be meandering through an industrial part of town vs being more or less isolated adjacent to 417 on the original alignment...doesn't seem the train would go that fast through there.

[WAJAS]

2 hours ago, jrs2 said:

how do you think this alignment will work?  It seems to be meandering through an industrial part of town vs being more or less isolated adjacent to 417 on the original alignment...doesn't seem the train would go that fast through there.

I'm not making any assumptions until I see actual alternatives analysis and the like. This could very well be fully elevated, and should be for high speed rail.

[jgardnerucf]

2 hours ago, WAJAS said:

This could very well be fully elevated,

Like Fresno.  Agreed. 

[codypet]

19 hours ago, WAJAS said:

I'm not making any assumptions until I see actual alternatives analysis and the like. This could very well be fully elevated, and should be for high speed rail.

 

22 hours ago, jrs2 said:

how do you think this alignment will work?  It seems to be meandering through an industrial part of town vs being more or less isolated adjacent to 417 on the original alignment...doesn't seem the train would go that fast through there.

It was envisioned to be elevated during the old Rick Scott canceled rail.  A straight shot down Taft Vineland due west to SR 528.  If you look at google maps its literally a straight shot.  I suspect that if this ends up being a diesel rail like BL/Sunrail currently are and not a catenary system like the old rail was, then it'll be cost prohibitive to go elevated and it will end up at grade except where it crosses Turnpike and SR 528 (Maybe OBT?, but I can also see them having an at grade crossing at OBT too).

[jrs2]

4 hours ago, codypet said:

 

It was envisioned to be elevated during the old Rick Scott canceled rail.  A straight shot down Taft Vineland due west to SR 528.  If you look at google maps its literally a straight shot.  I suspect that if this ends up being a diesel rail like BL/Sunrail currently are and not a catenary system like the old rail was, then it'll be cost prohibitive to go elevated and it will end up at grade except where it crosses Turnpike and SR 528 (Maybe OBT?, but I can also see them having an at grade crossing at OBT too).

you're right.  Taft-Vineland is a straight shot due west from the CSX rail line to the portion of 528 before it makes that turn at JYP.  Those cross streets, though. It is a real headache b/c some of those driveways can be reconfigured and cross streets consolidated.  Tons of warehouses.   To minimize the number of bridges, they may have to delete intersections and it could create a trucking nightmare.   It's a mess and if they don't have a master plan on what they want Taft-Vineland to look like, well, they'll have to figure it our quick.

[jliv]

you're right.  Taft-Vineland is a straight shot due west from the CSX rail line to the portion of 528 before it makes that turn at JYP.  Those cross streets, though. It is a real headache b/c some of those driveways can be reconfigured and cross streets consolidated.  Tons of warehouses.   To minimize the number of bridges, they may have to delete intersections and it could create a trucking nightmare.   It's a mess and if they don't have a master plan on what they want Taft-Vineland to look like, well, they'll have to figure it our quick.

The question which irks me: would a tourist or conventioneer who has just flown for 5+ hours and survived MCO baggage claim be delighted by the “Orlando Experience” as they are greeted by beautiful, resplendent Taft outside their train window? Plenty of airport trains across the world pass through dodgy bits of town to move passengers into the city, but Taft would hardly be a great gateway! One would hope any dedicated train ROWs would include tall walls blocking the view into Taft’s industrial “charms” for folks heading for a holiday in the sun…


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[codypet]

1 hour ago, jliv said:

The question which irks me: would a tourist or conventioneer who has just flown for 5+ hours and survived MCO baggage claim be delighted by the “Orlando Experience” as they are greeted by beautiful, resplendent Taft outside their train window? Plenty of airport trains across the world pass through dodgy bits of town to move passengers into the city, but Taft would hardly be a great gateway! One would hope any dedicated train ROWs would include tall walls blocking the view into Taft’s industrial “charms” for folks heading for a holiday in the sun…


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IMO that's no different than the train taking you from the airport to downtown and passing all the SODO warehouses.

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, jliv said:

The question which irks me: would a tourist or conventioneer who has just flown for 5+ hours and survived MCO baggage claim be delighted by the “Orlando Experience” as they are greeted by beautiful, resplendent Taft outside their train window? Plenty of airport trains across the world pass through dodgy bits of town to move passengers into the city, but Taft would hardly be a great gateway! One would hope any dedicated train ROWs would include tall walls blocking the view into Taft’s industrial “charms” for folks heading for a holiday in the sun…


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maybe they'll cover the windows like the Hogwarts Express.

I thought maybe they could backtrack from the Intermodal back up to the 528 since it's double tracked and use the northern and/or southern easement of 528.  There is easement there.  The problem is whether, if they were able to do that, the train would be going backwards (unless they're reversible).

52 minutes ago, codypet said:

IMO that's no different than the train taking you from the airport to downtown and passing all the SODO warehouses.

would they have to add another track alongside the one(s) already there do you think, from the Maintenance Facility zone to Taft-Vineland?

[codypet]

36 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

would they have to add another track alongside the one(s) already there do you think, from the Maintenance Facility zone to Taft-Vineland?

Probably not, but I could see them realigning track within the R/W to achieve higher speeds.  Its such a short run, I doubt the headway timing requires them double tracking through there.  Maybe I'm wrong and they'll want to run every 5 mins though.  

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, codypet said:

Probably not, but I could see them realigning track within the R/W to achieve higher speeds.  Its such a short run, I doubt the headway timing requires them double tracking through there.  Maybe I'm wrong and they'll want to run every 5 mins though.  

wait a minute.  I keep forgetting about Sunrail.  The Sunshine Corridor is for Sunrail to use and BL to lease from DOT (or Sunrail).  So it would have to be double tracked all the way to WDW/Marriott World Center zone, right, because of the two systems using the track?

[codypet]

They can operate on the same tracks.  In the future if BL wanted to go to Jax and not use FEC's tracks, they could lease from Sunrail if they wanted.    The platforms for the Sunshine Corridor would just need to be designed for both Brightline and Sunrail.  They just need double tracking where it makes sense based on the train timing and headways.  That said I envision single track from the Sunrail mainline to the airport, but double track to World Dr.   I'm curious where in the ITF Sunrail goes.  If its the same place as originally planned or somewhere else.

[jrs2]

On 1/18/2023 at 1:21 PM, jliv said:

The question which irks me: would a tourist or conventioneer who has just flown for 5+ hours and survived MCO baggage claim be delighted by the “Orlando Experience” as they are greeted by beautiful, resplendent Taft outside their train window? Plenty of airport trains across the world pass through dodgy bits of town to move passengers into the city, but Taft would hardly be a great gateway! One would hope any dedicated train ROWs would include tall walls blocking the view into Taft’s industrial “charms” for folks heading for a holiday in the sun…


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I totally forgot about this, but several years back, I took a commuter rail from Charles De Gaulle to the Paris city center and the train was very "hood"y, and passed through industrial parts of town en route.  On that route I first saw an Ikea distribution center.  I just "rolled" with it because it got me to where I needed to be.  On other trips we would take a cab.

[jrs2]

This article came out Christmas week, but it lays out lots of info:

https://www.tampabay.org/sunrail-brightline-prepare-next-steps-for-shared-corridor/#:~:text=Federal Railroad Administration Federal-State,% non-federal share programs.

 

[jrs2]

This is from January:

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2023/01/05/orange-county-convention-center-could-get-sunrail-station-in-new-deal/

[Uncommon]

13 hours ago, jrs2 said:

This is from January:

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2023/01/05/orange-county-convention-center-could-get-sunrail-station-in-new-deal/

All well and good but idk where the funding will come from with the Transportation tax being shot down.

[FLClarkKent]

Don’t understand this plan. Is it just one stop at OCCC with a connection to MCO? Or are there multiple stops on a line along/near Idrive and or Universal?

As a local, I feel like leadership should have prioritized a route to MCO from the current SunRail line. And, seven day a week service is a must. Yet, they never say anything about that.

No wonder the transportation tax failed.

[codypet]

2 hours ago, Uncommon said:

All well and good but idk where the funding will come from with the Transportation tax being shot down.

Universal had said previously they'd pay for the station.  As for the line itself.....

16 hours ago, jrs2 said:

This is from January:

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2023/01/05/orange-county-convention-center-could-get-sunrail-station-in-new-deal/

Of course Brightline will be more than happy to lease some trackage rights if that happens.

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, FLClarkKent said:

Don’t understand this plan. Is it just one stop at OCCC with a connection to MCO? Or are there multiple stops on a line along/near Idrive and or Universal?

As a local, I feel like leadership should have prioritized a route to MCO from the current SunRail line. And, seven day a week service is a must. Yet, they never say anything about that.

No wonder the transportation tax failed.

yeah, not sure. but the line that Sunrail will be on is supposed to have a stop at MCO, of course, then Taft/Meadowoods (right?), then OCCC, and then WDW.  Between Meadowoods/Taft and OCCC I'm not sure about the distance; Maybe they could squeeze another station there near JYP?

[dcluley98]

They changed the route with the latest update and Universal/CC involved: 

https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/4020c1c20b9b4ab98a6acc6cc4a072cd

Edited March 22, 2023 by dcluley98