Jump to content

sunshine

SunRail

Recommended Posts


JRS1 if that's the case, then why don't the lower income people stand up for commuter rail access themselves? If the high income individuals were actually in the minority as you seem to be implying the assessment of apples to oranges would be correct. I don't believe that there is any difference between the residential profile of Winter Park, FL vs. any of the cities I mentioned.

my point was that WP had just as good neighborhoods and real estate as those other suburbs mentioned, but the fact that it is a real city with lower income neighborhoods is what has lowered its numbers in that report.

as for the lower income people who live there, well: they either can't read (to know what's going on w/ commuter rail; or, they don't know what "commuter rail" means; or, they can still collect a welfare or unemployment check without using a train which raises their taxes. (I'm generalizing of course).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kind of O/T, but does anyone have information on the expansion of the Lymmo system? I keep hearing they are working on extending that over to the T/P area and further north & south -- There's supposed to be a stop right on "Condo Corridor" (aka S. Eola Dr.). That would be awesome for me living in Eola South! What is taking so long for this? It's not like they have to build anything, right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, I started doing some research on this exact issue a few days ago but never got too far. It is supposed to go down Church Street but I had heard talk of it being on Central. I went to a Downtown Development type luncheon on Thursday and one of their slides showed it on Church, which is great. The Lymmo service has its own dedicated lanes, so there would be considerable construction involved. They should do this soon. There will be a good amount of units coming on-line pretty soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, I started doing some research on this exact issue a few days ago but never got too far. It is supposed to go down Church Street but I had heard talk of it being on Central. I went to a Downtown Development type luncheon on Thursday and one of their slides showed it on Church, which is great. The Lymmo service has its own dedicated lanes, so there would be considerable construction involved. They should do this soon. There will be a good amount of units coming on-line pretty soon.

Last time I checked, this is years from happening. I don't think you will see this until the Citrus Bowl renovation and new arena are completed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

my point was that WP had just as good neighborhoods and real estate as those other suburbs mentioned, but the fact that it is a real city with lower income neighborhoods is what has lowered its numbers in that report.

as for the lower income people who live there, well: they either can't read (to know what's going on w/ commuter rail; or, they don't know what "commuter rail" means; or, they can still collect a welfare or unemployment check without using a train which raises their taxes. (I'm generalizing of course).

JRS1, I reviewed the information regarding median home values and made some astounding discoveries. First of all, the per capita income in Winter Park is only 20% above the median income of Orange County. The majority of the towns I mentioned earlier have per capita incomes that are anywhere from 100% to 300% greater than their metro area incomes. The highest I found in Orlando was in Windermere with 100% greater than the metro average. Anyway, JRS1 what I think you meant is there there is greater socioeconomic diversity in Winter Park than these other cities which brings the averages down. Rather than say, Windermere which has no socioeconomic diveristy. I still think that a public awareness campaign can change the hearts and minds of WP residents!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JRS1, I reviewed the information regarding median home values and made some astounding discoveries. First of all, the per capita income in Winter Park is only 20% above the median income of Orange County. The majority of the towns I mentioned earlier have per capita incomes that are anywhere from 100% to 300% greater than their metro area incomes. The highest I found in Orlando was in Windermere with 100% greater than the metro average. Anyway, JRS1 what I think you meant is there there is greater socioeconomic diversity in Winter Park than these other cities which brings the averages down. Rather than say, Windermere which has no socioeconomic diveristy. I still think that a public awareness campaign can change the hearts and minds of WP residents!

exactly. public awareness campaign-- yes.

as for commuters and the many buses issue, who would commute into DT WP and take a bus? most of the commuters would go straight to DT ORL. And if you liked in Deltona and commuted to WP, it would be to work somewhere in that city center-- maybe near 17/92 and Orange, Fairbanks, and Lee Rd. Yeah, buses would be needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

exactly. public awareness campaign-- yes.

as for commuters and the many buses issue, who would commute into DT WP and take a bus? most of the commuters would go straight to DT ORL. And if you liked in Deltona and commuted to WP, it would be to work somewhere in that city center-- maybe near 17/92 and Orange, Fairbanks, and Lee Rd. Yeah, buses would be needed.

I think that the most likely candidates would be those that lived/worked within a 15 minute walk to the train station. I could be wrong, but that is the radius of most TOD these days. (Transit Oriented Development). Most of those wealthier towns don't have bus service anyway. Also, those visiting the Winter Park Art Festival those coming to Rollins for graduations would use the service. If anything, it would provide a great alternative to driving, which is what commuter rail is supposed to do.

Edited by mrh3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Winter Park initially passes, I am not terribly concerned. With most rail projects that have been planned effectively, what happens is that once people see they have missed out on some convenience, they begin to clamor for it. That certainly was the case with MARTA rail in Atlanta.

What I have not yet seen is what sort of flexibility commuter rail will initially have - that is, will they be able to run it for special events and the like? Also, will folks from outside WP put enough pressure on Park Avenue merchants and the folks who put on the Art Festival that they begin to take as strong a stance pro-rail as the NIMBYs are against?

Will Rollins students find it so useful that the College gets involved? Certainly with light rail, I could see all those things happening. Not so sure yet with commuter rail. Once I4 is all torn up in 2009, however, we may see a lot of folks in WP screaming for access <g>.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Winter Park initially passes, I am not terribly concerned. With most rail projects that have been planned effectively, what happens is that once people see they have missed out on some convenience, they begin to clamor for it. That certainly was the case with MARTA rail in Atlanta.

What I have not yet seen is what sort of flexibility commuter rail will initially have - that is, will they be able to run it for special events and the like? Also, will folks from outside WP put enough pressure on Park Avenue merchants and the folks who put on the Art Festival that they begin to take as strong a stance pro-rail as the NIMBYs are against?

Will Rollins students find it so useful that the College gets involved? Certainly with light rail, I could see all those things happening. Not so sure yet with commuter rail. Once I4 is all torn up in 2009, however, we may see a lot of folks in WP screaming for access <g>.

Students could live downtown and go to rollins. that would be fun. eeehhh i already graduated! Go KNIGHTS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who's down for bum-rushing WP city hall during the January council meeting?

I don't think they allow bums in Winter Park......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just don't see the station happening for Winter Park.

I've seen several letters to the paper already from the Winter Park NIMBY's responding to the papers endorsement of a Winter Park station. There was one today bemoaning the 30 or 40 dollars a year each resident might have to pay at some future point to 'subsidize service to UCF and Deltona' et al. They would rather waste a few more years and a few more million for more studies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've seen several letters to the paper already from the Winter Park NIMBY's responding to the papers endorsement of a Winter Park station. There was one today bemoaning the 30 or 40 dollars a year each resident might have to pay at some future point to 'subsidize service to UCF and Deltona' et al. They would rather waste a few more years and a few more million for more studies.

Sooner or later they will be paying that on other services... or they will be sitting in traffic and complaining why the situation for the roads isnt better. I cant stand these small minded people

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sooner or later they will be paying that on other services... or they will be sitting in traffic and complaining why the situation for the roads isnt better. I cant stand these small minded people

The "here and now" and "me, my, I" people... yeah. Hence many of Central Florida's growing problems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I were a resident of Winter Park or even a current Central Florida resident, I would personally spearhead a fund raising effort to get a public awareness campaign going that would change the opinion of WP residents. Someone should talk to Mica. He is now the top Republican on the House Transportation Committee. Call your congress people folks!

Edited by mrh3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I were a resident of Winter Park or even a current Central Florida resident, I would personally spearhead a fund raising effort to get a public awareness campaign going that would change the opinion of WP residents. Someone should talk to Mica. He is now the top Republican on the House Transportation Committee. Call your congress people folks!

The most amusing thing about pro-development, non-WP residents, is that they have this sanctimonious attitude that theirs is the correct position, not only for themselves and Orange County, but for Winter Park. Its as if these self-appointed experts think they know better and know more than the people that ACTUALLY live in this city 24/7/365 and pay taxes.

This condescending attitude won't play well with the people you're trying to "educate" (brainwash?).

But you're welcome to try and come into town as an outsider and spend loads of $$ on money to try and convince us to vote for something YOU want. Kind of how Hal Kantor and Doug Guetzloe, Orlando's biggest sleazes, thought they could "educate" us with illegal campaign advertisements. We, the ignorant "NIMBY" WP'ers, were just ignorant and couldn't see what a great boon to our town the Carlyle would have been!

Well, you know the upshot of that story by now (or should). Kip Marchman got fired. Onewinterpark came to prominence. And the voting residents of WP got an early Xmas present: the Carllyle is dead!! This is democracy in action, and the will of the residents triumphing over greedy, pushy, unethical developers and pressure from outside sources.

WP's desire to preserve its cherished park space, and not pave over it for a rail station for non-residents, will not 'KILL' the rail project. IF you're upset you won't be able to ride a train to our shopping district, you have the option of driving there, as in the past, or not coming at all. We'll find some way to carry on, so don't worry too much about us or the holy rail project.

Rail will be built, and the residents will decide if the impact on OUR city is acceptable or not.

Of the two upcoming votes, I will vote FOR allowing the city to pay $$ for a rail station, but I will vote AGAINST placing such a station anywhere near Central Park. We didn't fight long and hard to kill the Carlyle so that it can be replaced by a concrete commuter park'n'ride hell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The most amusing thing about pro-development, non-WP residents, is that they have this sanctimonious attitude that theirs is the correct position, not only for themselves and Orange County, but for Winter Park. Its as if these self-appointed experts think they know better and know more than the people that ACTUALLY live in this city 24/7/365 and pay taxes.

This condescending attitude won't play well with the people you're trying to "educate" (brainwash?).

But you're welcome to try and come into town as an outsider and spend loads of $$ on money to try and convince us to vote for something YOU want. Kind of how Hal Kantor and Doug Guetzloe, Orlando's biggest sleazes, thought they could "educate" us with illegal campaign advertisements. We, the ignorant "NIMBY" WP'ers, were just ignorant and couldn't see what a great boon to our town the Carlyle would have been!

Well, you know the upshot of that story by now (or should). Kip Marchman got fired. Onewinterpark came to prominence. And the voting residents of WP got an early Xmas present: the Carllyle is dead!! This is democracy in action, and the will of the residents triumphing over greedy, pushy, unethical developers and pressure from outside sources.

WP's desire to preserve its cherished park space, and not pave over it for a rail station for non-residents, will not 'KILL' the rail project. IF you're upset you won't be able to ride a train to our shopping district, you have the option of driving there, as in the past, or not coming at all. We'll find some way to carry on, so don't worry too much about us or the holy rail project.

Rail will be built, and the residents will decide if the impact on OUR city is acceptable or not.

Of the two upcoming votes, I will vote FOR allowing the city to pay $$ for a rail station, but I will vote AGAINST placing such a station anywhere near Central Park. We didn't fight long and hard to kill the Carlyle so that it can be replaced by a concrete commuter park'n'ride hell.

Eastbank, I appreciate the direct candor and understand your position as a resident of WP and certainly your aversion to a concrete commuter rail park and ride. If that is the overwhelming concerning, this is my first time hearing of it. With regard to being and "outsider" and using an "expert" opinion, I think that what this centers around is transportation alternatives that will benefit those beyond the borders of WP.

If you read the Sentinel article a few weeks ago regarding the population growth of the State of Florida, a region preparing to accomodate 7.2MM people, the only feasible alternative is higher density development. I can understand that people are afraid of change, but this isn't about an individual. This is really about a community adequately anticipating the needs of its citizens and forging some type of partnership that will improve the overall quality of life for everyone involved.

And just as a quick aside, John Mica is your congressman from Winter Park democratically elected and he's been trying to push this for years. So, if he is expressing the will of the poeople, he's done his job by securing the fundins. Maybe WP should do theirs.

Edited by mrh3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't ever remember hearing that ALL cities on the route had to sign on or else it would kill commuter rail.

I remember talk of if Maitland would sign on for a stop, but I never once heard IF they didn't sign on, THEN it would kill commuter rail. Winter Park, for the most part, has upper class and rich people living there. Yes, they are picky about what they accept in their community. Ponte Vedra Beach near Jacksonville is exactly the same way. Do you know what kind of stink they made about a McDonald's being buit off A1A? If Winter Park doesn't want a commuter rail stop, I don't blame them. They have that freedom. So I won't be able to take the rail to go on the boat tours. So what? Park-n-Rides aren't the prettiest things to look at. And the traffic situation would be made worse, and Fairbanks is already really bad, it would just get worse and almost become useless.

I live in Deltona. I am just thrilled about commuter rail. I will use it, (I work in Orange County) it will save me tons of money and car repair, and if I have to ride a bike to get the rest of the way to work, then it will also be a good way to get some exercise on top of all of that. :D

Edited by radiostatic102

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't ever remember hearing that ALL cities on the route had to sign on or else it would kill commuter rail.

If I am wrong, I stand corrected, but my understanding was that the financing that they are currently putting into place is contingent upon rail stops in Winter Park and Maitland.

OC Commuter Rail Deal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, let me go on record as saying that if this whole deal hinged on getting WP to ante up for a station, then the crafters of the proposals were foolish indeed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.