SunRail

[JRS1]

I totally agree. The "Tram" in Vegas is actually a Monorail. In fact before it was expanded, there were two Mark IV Trains from Walt Disney World's previous fleet running between Bally and MGM. Disney sold them to Bally's once the upgraded their monorail fleet to the current Mark VI Trains.

Really? I thought that Vegas Monorail when I was last on it (2002) was nothing more than a cheaper version and smaller version of the WDW monorail cars. THe doors were more flimsy (very odd) and the trains seemed smaller. I don't ever remember WDW's trains to have ever been that small or cheaply built. Not to be hard on Vegas, but that's the one thing I distinctly remember from those trains (unless WDW just sold them their old trains within the last 3 years or so).

[JRS1]

Old or new? WDW sold the old Mk IV monorail to Bally's, and they ran that for a while. But recently, about 2004, they opened up a new monorail, but from scratch by Bombardier. It is a private system, although not right now very profitable. The cars are quite a bit compromised in design - they tended to borrow a little too much from previous designs. However, this is probably more of an exception than a rule. I wouldn't use Las Vegas as particularly good example of planning, design, OR execution.

what I do remember is that the monorail cars behind Bally's... the doors would have a worker assist in closing them; they weren't totally automatic doors, and they were thinner. this is circa 2002-2003. those are the cars I know for sure were never Disney cars in the Nineties at least, b/c I would frequent WDW in the Nineties to draw comparison. Disney cars were bulkier...

I guess my point is that the cars I rode at Bally's were new at the time, but seemed like smaller cheaper versions of WDW cars.

[montu2u]

what I do remember is that the monorail cars behind Bally's... the doors would have a worker assist in closing them; they weren't totally automatic doors, and they were thinner. this is circa 2002-2003. those are the cars I know for sure were never Disney cars in the Nineties at least, b/c I would frequent WDW in the Nineties to draw comparison. Disney cars were bulkier...

I guess my point is that the cars I rode at Bally's were new at the time, but seemed like smaller cheaper versions of WDW cars.

The WDW 10 original Mark IV Trains ran at WDW from 1971 to 1989 and were built by Martin Marietta here in Orlando. It may have been that Mark IV's were gone before you started to do your comparison. Two were refurbished and went to Vegas to run between Bally and MGM. They ran in Vegas until the line was extended and the new Bombardier Trains were put into service. The actually used the old beams from the original line. You can see the old vs. new from under the Bally/Paris Station, just as you go outside by the pool, before you go up escalator.

http://www.bigfloridacountry.com/monorail.htm

Here is a link to a very informational site about the WDW Monorail system and its history. About 3/4 down the page are pictures of the Mark IV's in service at WDW and then some pics of the two in Vegas. Some great pics because they actually have a picture of the Original Monorail Black, which was the only 5 car train that ran here. The rest including today's Mark VI's are all 6 car trains. I rode one of the Mark IV's in Vegas back in 1997 and it brought back a lot of memories when they were here.

[JRS1]

that is one of the coolest websites I've seen in some time. very informative.

[neon9]

Yes, JR (Japan Rail) is one of the private companies that operates many of Japan's public transportation systems. Are there any private public transit companies in the States?

Not really...CSX and other railroads did not want to provide passenger rail service because it was not as profitable. So Amtrak took it over. Pax rail in other countries is generally not profitable but that probably explains why it is usually run by a government corporation (SNCF et al). Roads are not profitable either but you rarely hear about how those are subsidized.

[JRS1]

If they had to have someone close the doors, those were the old Disney monorails. The new one are automatic. From what I heard, they were in fact flimsy.

that's it... those were the ones I was talkin about.

[sunshine]

Winter Park commuter rail stop to go in Central Park

Christopher Sherman {sodEmoji.|} Sentinel Staff Writer

Posted April 23, 2007, 7:27 PM EDT

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/...-home-headlines

[shardoon]

Money for commuter rail may be on the line

Christopher Sherman and Jay Hamburg {sodEmoji.|} Sentinel Staff Writers

Posted April 24, 2007

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/...-home-headlines

[sunshine]

The selfishness and the undecicive government in OC has been very frustrating. This truly showns the weakness of our local governemnt as a whole to work together towards a common goal. When are we going to work like a big city? Take a chance.

[JRS1]

The selfishness and the undecicive government in OC has been very frustrating. This truly showns the weakness of our local governemnt as a whole to work together towards a common goal. When are we going to work like a big city? Take a chance.

we can't b/c it's a bunch of small towns clustered together. they can't blow this... it will be devastating.

I am surprised though that WP and Maitland both approved a station. that is encouraging. the opt out deal is less encouraging.

[sunshine]

But, we all know that rail line, PAC, stadium & arena are good investments for the furute for this region and yet it takes them forever to build them. But when it comes to highway and toll road, we didnt hear anything about a vote, tax money, public inputs....... the money just automatically show up and it gets built. I dont want any more roads to middle of nowhere land.

[GregoryMCSE]

exactly.

[Dale]

Gratuitous Crotty-bashing again. He can't win for losing on this subforum. Scott Maxwell wrote the other day that his leadership on the package is better-appreciated by Orlandoans than is Dyer's because, between the two of them, Crotty appears to be the only one asking hard questions.

And on commuter rail, surely it's not Crotty's fault that a few of the many municipalities, whose agreement is necessary to make the delicate and complicated deal work, are getting cold feet at the eleventh hour. What ? Do you want him to pay for the whole thing ? And if so, with who's money ?

In any case, my suspicions were sound. Apparently, *every* municipality has to be on board or the train leaves the station, so to speak.

[GRS328]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[prahaboheme]

Mica has spearheaded all efforts to bring commuter rail to Central Florida. Dyer has spearheaded all efforts (since his inception) to bring modern cultural facilities to the City of Orlando.

It is not suprising in the least that Crotty is the one asking the "hard" questions.

[Dale]

Mica has spearheaded all efforts to bring commuter rail to Central Florida. Dyer has spearheaded all efforts (since his inception) to bring modern cultural facilities to the City of Orlando.

It is not suprising in the least that Crotty is the one asking the "hard" questions.

Seems like just about anything can escape scrutiny these days as long as it falls under the rubric 'spearheaded'.

[prahaboheme]

Seems like just about anything can escape scrutiny these days as long as it falls under the rubric 'spearheaded'.

[JRS1]

well, I was talking with a client earlier and her husband is a real estate consultant working with Longwood on the new developments they are planning at the site of the new station that's going off of Ronnie Blvd. So, I am assuming that with that kind of $$$ being spent, most or all parties involved are acting as though this thing is getting done/ or at least are going through the motions.

[lala67]

it's really a pretty damned good deal to the cities. WP and Maitland have been narrow thinkers for decades when it comes to mass transit. I'm surprised we've gotten this far or that Crotty has actually supported commuter rail, albeit I think he's been rather reluctant about it.

I've felt for sometime that the powers that be were looking for any excuse to back out of the deal. They've got funding, the state had agreed to pay all O&M for the first 7 yrs, CSX has agreed to the sale of their tracks (no small feet) and yet these folks still question if they can find the money or not. It'll be interesting to see how the property tax reform will impact many of the projects being proposed in the area.

[Dale]

it's really a pretty damned good deal to the cities. WP and Maitland have been narrow thinkers for decades when it comes to mass transit. I'm surprised we've gotten this far or that Crotty has actually supported commuter rail, albeit I think he's been rather reluctant about it.

I've felt for sometime that the powers that be were looking for any excuse to back out of the deal. They've got funding, the state had agreed to pay all O&M for the first 7 yrs, CSX has agreed to the sale of their tracks (no small feet) and yet these folks still question if they can find the money or not. It'll be interesting to see how the property tax reform will impact many of the projects being proposed in the area.

Which 'powers that be' are we talking about ?

[WeNeed2Progress]

I was in Nashville the other week and was surprised to see that they have a commuter rail. It was the weekend so it wasn't running, but how efficient is it? What I did notice is that there wasn't much developement in the immediate area around the end of the line/ downtown Nashville station. I do hope that they promote commercial growth around out stations. I know we're no Tokyo, but we may as well try!

[Dale]

I was in Nashville the other week and was surprised to see that they have a commuter rail. It was the weekend so it wasn't running, but how efficient is it? What I did notice is that there wasn't much developement in the immediate area around the end of the line/ downtown Nashville station. I do hope that they promote commercial growth around out stations. I know we're no Tokyo, but we may as well try!

Nashville did theirs on the cheap. I think their starter line cost something on the order of $60 million.

[lala67]

Which 'powers that be' are we talking about ?

elected officials from Orange Co, Winter Park, Maitland (not that maitland was ever really on board anyway)

Edited May 2, 2007 by lala67

[lala67]

Dallas/Fort Worth has light rail...when then county chairman Martinez and the other county commissioners (Sindler) killed light rail in 2000? (not sure the exact year), DFW got the money that had been ear-marked for Central Florida. I'm still bitter about that. We also lost some visionaries at the City and Lynx after the deal was killed, ironically, I think those folks are now working in Nashville.

Edited May 2, 2007 by lala67

[JRS1]

Dallas/Fort Worth has light rail...when then county chairman Martinez and the other county commissioners (Sindler) killed light rail in 2000? (not sure the exact year), DFW got the money that had been ear-marked for Central Florida. I'm still bitter about that. We also lost some visionaries at the City and Lynx after the deal was killed, ironically, I think those folks are now working in Nashville.

not that it matters, but I thought Charlotte got that $$$.