SunRail

[JRS1]

Yep, basically the majority of people who work at the major employers in Brevard live in that county. It is a very strange county, it's always been an extension of Orlando. The Beeline was built because of it and it was one of the first areas of the country to have cable TV because there are no major media outlets and you can't get the Orlando TV stations without it. But like I said, it's balancing on a 50/50 thing with the employment, any sub-major change in the space program or the military would add it Greater Orlando because more people from there would be commuting here for decent jobs. I work in UCF Research Park and a large number of people there already commute from Titusville and Port St. John.

(I know what you mean about the Tampa thing....my brother lives there and I have no more arguments left)

Orlando will cruise up a few spots within 5 years b/c W.Volusia is growing, as is Lake-Sumter area. Sumter isn't part of the MSA nor is Volusia. But they are part of the CSA, as is Flagler b/c of Volusia. wow. Flagler and Volusia might as well be one since they are so intertwined business and development wise. Is West Volusia more populated than East Volusia? probably so.

I always figured that if they developed the 528/520/50 area in E. Orange, it would be the development link to Brevard to tie it into the metro. Funny, they widened or are widening 520 from 50 to I-95 in Brevard, and widened SR 44 in Volusia from I-4 to I-95, the last Deland exit before Daytona. Reminds me of the highways to Athens in Atlanta and how they are wide and developed. I think Athens is part of that metro too.

Orlando plus Tampa is like 5.3M. Add in Polk and it's 5.9M, which would be the largest combined CSA (if that would be a category) shy of Dallas' numbers. West Polk begins and you can't tell if there's abreak in development from Hillsborough to Polk. In East Polk, the same goes for the Polk/Osceola/Orange County lines. A little more rural, but it's interesting, b/c in 10 years, it will be way more developed.

Add in Manasota and your at 6.5M and add in Brevard and your at 7M. interesting stuff.

[VistaLakes01]

Orlando will cruise up a few spots within 5 years b/c W.Volusia is growing, as is Lake-Sumter area. Sumter isn't part of the MSA nor is Volusia. But they are part of the CSA, as is Flagler b/c of Volusia. wow. Flagler and Volusia might as well be one since they are so intertwined business and development wise. Is West Volusia more populated than East Volusia? probably so.

I always figured that if they developed the 528/520/50 area in E. Orange, it would be the development link to Brevard to tie it into the metro. Funny, they widened or are widening 520 from 50 to I-95 in Brevard, and widened SR 44 in Volusia from I-4 to I-95, the last Deland exit before Daytona. Reminds me of the highways to Athens in Atlanta and how they are wide and developed. I think Athens is part of that metro too.

Orlando plus Tampa is like 5.3M. Add in Polk and it's 5.9M, which would be the largest combined CSA (if that would be a category) shy of Dallas' numbers. West Polk begins and you can't tell if there's abreak in development from Hillsborough to Polk. In East Polk, the same goes for the Polk/Osceola/Orange County lines. A little more rural, but it's interesting, b/c in 10 years, it will be way more developed.

Add in Manasota and your at 6.5M and add in Brevard and your at 7M. interesting stuff.

The census people take "Orlampa" seriously, if things continue the way they are going this will be one of the top ten population centers in 20 years or less. And Orlando (like Atlanta) is just like a spider with eight legs going out in every direction. If you look at the Expressway Authorities plans or wish list, it's very similar. It's too bad that high speed rail got shot down (even though we voted for it) that would link Orlando, Tampa, and Miami. Being able to get to another one of our Florida cities in an hour or two or less would incredible! You would never run out of options on how to spend the day!

[GRS328]

metrowester, do you have access to the density figures for those top CSA's? I always have a hard time finding density figures on census.gov.

[VistaLakes01]

metrowester, do you have access to the density figures for those top CSA's? I always have a hard time finding density figures on census.gov.

i can probably find them for you...i have density maps..in what form do you want it? Like per square mile per county? per CSA or MSA?

[JRS1]

FYI on AMtrak service:

No, not commuter rail, but did you all know that Orlando has 3 different lines that come through here? That's more than any other city in Florida:

1. Sunset Ltd.-- Orl-Jax-San Anton.-LA

2. Silver Service-- Mia-Tam-Orl-Jax-Sav.-DC-NYC

3. Auto Train-- Orl-DC

call me trivial, but I find that very impressive.

in fact, that's more than Atlanta or Charlotte as well. New Orleans has 3 service routes as well. that rounds out the southeast for most service.

Edited June 12, 2007 by JRS1

[neon9]

FYI on AMtrak service:

No, not commuter rail, but did you all know that Orlando has 3 different lines that come through here? That's more than any other city in Florida:

1. Sunset Ltd.-- Orl-Jax-San Anton.-LA

2. Silver Service-- Mia-Tam-Orl-Jax-Sav.-DC-NYC

3. Auto Train-- Orl-DC

call me trivial, but I find that very impressive.

in fact, that's more than Atlanta or Charlotte as well. New Orleans has 3 service routes as well. that rounds out the southeast for most service.

I believe the Sunset Ltd. is still out of service around New Orleans/Mississippi Gulf Coast area because of Katrina-I don't know how they were working around that, buses?

After riding trains in several european countries, I think I'm spoiled. I don't know if I could ride Amtrak anymore (and I've only ridden it once between Jackson MS and NOLA-took at least an hour longer than a car because they stop at every town inbetween. However it gave you a great view of the bayou and Lake Ponchatrain.....)

[JRS1]

I believe the Sunset Ltd. is still out of service around New Orleans/Mississippi Gulf Coast area because of Katrina-I don't know how they were working around that, buses?

After riding trains in several european countries, I think I'm spoiled. I don't know if I could ride Amtrak anymore (and I've only ridden it once between Jackson MS and NOLA-took at least an hour longer than a car because they stop at every town inbetween. However it gave you a great view of the bayou and Lake Ponchatrain.....)

I took it from Chicago-Mil-Minn-ND-Whitefish, Montana. incredibly scenic.

But I will say this... when CFRAIL starts running, I think it will tie Amtrak into the transportation network a little better. granted, both will travel by the same stops, but CFRAIL will also be a catalyst for improved and new bus feeder routes.

[JRS1]

FYI on AMtrak service:

No, not commuter rail, but did you all know that Orlando has 3 different lines that come through here? That's more than any other city in Florida:

1. Sunset Ltd.-- Orl-Jax-San Anton.-LA

2. Silver Service-- Mia-Tam-Orl-Jax-Sav.-DC-NYC

3. Auto Train-- Orl-DC

call me trivial, but I find that very impressive.

in fact, that's more than Atlanta or Charlotte as well. New Orleans has 3 service routes as well. that rounds out the southeast for most service.

there's a new service from another train co.(Grand Luxe Rail--look in the general florida forum-- posted yesterday) with a route from DC-Jax-ORL-MIA.

this makes it 4 routes coming thru Orlando with stops. That's even more impressive than before.

Edited June 28, 2007 by JRS1

[Lunican]

1. Sunset Ltd.-- This train is canceled east of New Orleans indefinitely

2. Silver Service-- This is two separate trains, two northbound and two southbound daily

3. Auto Train-- Terminates north of Orlando in Sanford

4. Grand Luxe-- This will not be an additional train. It will be several cars on the end of Silver Service Amtrak trains.

[JRS1]

1. Sunset Ltd.-- This train is canceled east of New Orleans indefinitely

2. Silver Service-- This is two separate trains, two northbound and two southbound daily

3. Auto Train-- Terminates north of Orlando in Sanford

4. Grand Luxe-- This will not be an additional train. It will be several cars on the end of Silver Service Amtrak trains.

why would you even go there?

Sanford? what's the difference? it's still Orlando metro. Oh, your's judging distances by Jacksonville standards. sorry, Orlando is a little bigger...

And if you want to be technical about it, the Auto Train terminates in Lorton, VA., and not DC proper, so who really cares.

it still doesn't change the fact that there's more service to Orlando METRO than in any other city in Florida, even CSX's HQ city, the mighty Jacksonville, whether the Sunset Ltd. service is operational or not. b/c if you cancel the Sunset Ltd. service east of NO, it cancels Jax's service as well.

[bic]

JRS1, when I read your post before Lunican's I came away from it thinking that there were 4 different routes coming through Orlando. But as Lunican poined out, this is clearly not the case. There's no need to get defensive about it....he (or she?) just pointed out that the reality is not quite as you made it seem. One route is not servicing Orlando now, another terminates well north of Downtown Orlando (which is significant when there's no light rail, subway, or commuter rail to connect to), and one is just a different class of service tacked on to an existing train. So it's not 4 routes currently rolling through Orlando but just one.

[JRS1]

JRS1, when I read your post before Lunican's I came away from it thinking that there were 4 different routes coming through Orlando. But as Lunican poined out, this is clearly not the case. There's no need to get defensive about it....he (or she?) just pointed out that the reality is not quite as you made it seem. One route is not servicing Orlando now, another terminates well north of Downtown Orlando (which is significant when there's no light rail, subway, or commuter rail to connect to), and one is just a different class of service tacked on to an existing train. So it's not 4 routes currently rolling through Orlando but just one.

bic, compadre, I hear you. But all I said was that Orlando has 3 different lines... etc. I never said downtown Orlando.

Sanford: the Auto train will have a CFRAIL station in Sanford- it's the same CSX line. But that's not the point. He's getting technical with me to discount what I originally wrote, when my original post was actually posted in shock of learning what I did when I did. and that's it.

He was right about the Grand Luxe service piggybacking off of an existing train route. And he was right about the Sunset Ltd. stopping indefinitely east of NO b/c of Katrina damage, etc.

with his logic, then Orlando doesn't really have an international airport b/c it's not in downtown, rather, 16 or so miles away (albeit in the city limits).

and even with the temporary suspension of the Sunset Ltd. service, Orlando will still have the most Amtrak service in FLA, b/c Jax was No. 2 and losing Sunset means Jax loses it too. not that I care. And there is no stop in Jax for the Auto Train.

...alright... I apologize for my tone in my earlier post.

Edited June 29, 2007 by JRS1

[VistaLakes01]

bic, compadre, I hear you. But all I said was that Orlando has 3 different lines... etc. I never said downtown Orlando.

Sanford: the Auto train will have a CFRAIL station in Sanford- it's the same CSX line. But that's not the point. He's getting technical with me to discount what I originally wrote, when my original post was actually posted in shock of learning what I did when I did. and that's it.

He was right about the Grand Luxe service piggybacking off of an existing train route. And he was right about the Sunset Ltd. stopping indefinitely east of NO b/c of Katrina damage, etc.

with his logic, then Orlando doesn't really have an international airport b/c it's not in downtown, rather, 16 or so miles away (albeit in the city limits).

and even with the temporary suspension of the Sunset Ltd. service, Orlando will still have the most Amtrak service in FLA, b/c Jax was No. 2 and losing Sunset means Jax loses it too. not that I care. And there is no stop in Jax for the Auto Train.

...alright... I apologize for my tone in my earlier post.

That's odd, the auto train doesn't stop in Jax? Does it go through Jax? Also, if I'm thinking correctly the auto train is pre-Disney. I wonder what the point of Sanford as the destination? I guess to be centrally located to the old Central Florida attractions as well as the beaches and the Turnpike to Miami.

[JRS1]

That's odd, the auto train doesn't stop in Jax? Does it go through Jax? Also, if I'm thinking correctly the auto train is pre-Disney. I wonder what the point of Sanford as the destination? I guess to be centrally located to the old Central Florida attractions as well as the beaches and the Turnpike to Miami.

I checked-- only the VA station and Sanford, via the CSX track.

I don't know why; maybe as you said it's a central location?

Sanford does have a port (technically). maybe that has something to do with it.

[EngineerNole]

That's odd, the auto train doesn't stop in Jax? Does it go through Jax? Also, if I'm thinking correctly the auto train is pre-Disney. I wonder what the point of Sanford as the destination? I guess to be centrally located to the old Central Florida attractions as well as the beaches and the Turnpike to Miami.

Unless things have changed (which I doubt) then I definately can say that the Auto Train only stops in two places, Sanford,FL and Lorton, VA. I know this because as a kid, I rode on the Auto Train almost every summer. The last time I rode was probably over ten years ago, but I still believe nothing is different. The train does pass through Jacksonville, but does not stop. The train does stop overnight somewhere in the Carolinas to switch crews. Absolutely no passengers get off at this point. Passengers only get on and off at the two previously mentioned towns.

Edited July 2, 2007 by EngineerNole

[spenser1058]

Ah, progress: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/...0,4104594.story

[bic]

^ That article says that recent changes to the commuter rail plans include moving the DeBary station 5 miles to the south and including the Sand Lake Road station in the initial phase. That's pretty significant because that station will be the closest stop to Orlando International Airport...so people should be able to go from the airport to downtown with just one transfer on public transit as early as 2010, as opposed to 2013 when the second phase comes online.

[JRS1]

^ That article says that recent changes to the commuter rail plans include moving the DeBary station 5 miles to the south and including the Sand Lake Road station in the initial phase. That's pretty significant because that station will be the closest stop to Orlando International Airport...so people should be able to go from the airport to downtown with just one transfer on public transit as early as 2010, as opposed to 2013 when the second phase comes online.

but what's even more interesting is that I bet you ORMC rode FDOT hard about having to wait longer than Fla. Hospital to get a stop as well. not to mention the fact that CCS will also have their stop in 2010.

those Vets want a spur to Lake Nona b/c of the VA... that's fine and all--- but i would hope that their main focus would be to use that same spur to offer a connection to MCO ala the intermodal center from the south.

[bulldogger]

So we should have definite answers as to the CR and the venues by the end of the month. Take those parts and add in the BIO cluster and a nearly doubled UCF campus. All this within the next few years. We have a few condo towers coming online in the next year. ONative talks of office towers. There are 3 apartment projects (camden, verde, montage) planned with funding in place.

Orlando and more so downtown is going to come to fruition in a few years, which is going to spur a whole other boom downtown in a few more years. I really think Orlando is the city of the future. Many city cores have come under redevelopment in the past 5 years due to the low interest rates, but most cities are done. Miami for instance will probably not go through another growth spurt as I think we will have within the next decade.

[bic]

but what's even more interesting is that I bet you ORMC rode FDOT hard about having to wait longer than Fla. Hospital to get a stop as well. not to mention the fact that CCS will also have their stop in 2010.

Is it certain that the ORMC station will be built in the initial phase now? Or could it be that the addition of the Sand Lake station means the train will go non-stop from there to downtown and the ORMC station will be a part of the second phase?

[JRS1]

Is it certain that the ORMC station will be built in the initial phase now? Or could it be that the addition of the Sand Lake station means the train will go non-stop from there to downtown and the ORMC station will be a part of the second phase?

that's a good question. maybe GOAA is the entity that pressured FDOT on this. I can't imagine them not setting up that station as well. I mean, the Amtrak station is already there... it would be so easy and I guarantee there would be buku ridership right off the bat.

As for DeBary station, if they go 5 miles south of the original location, wouldn't that end up being in Seminole County? b/c I thought it was at a proposed Saxon Rd. extension.

[JRS1]

TV13 just stated that Orange County unaimously passed Commuter Rail today. I think July 30 is when the rest of the communities are supposed to sign on.

[sunshine]

Orlando on board for rail -- Osceola postpones vote

Jay Hamburg and Mark Pino {sodEmoji.|} Sentinel Staff Writers

July 24, 2007

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/...0,2290468.story

[JRS1]

Orlando on board for rail -- Osceola postpones vote

Jay Hamburg and Mark Pino {sodEmoji.|} Sentinel Staff Writers

July 24, 2007

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/...0,2290468.story

wel, maybe they'll review their options and vote for it anyway. $.05 gas hike? please. W has already screwed us by hiking gas an extra $1.50 since getting into office.

[WeNeed2Progress]

Frickin' Osceola County--- Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.........