SunRail

[bic]

2 hrs? I was thinking something like 40 min. intervals initially (actually, that's 40 min. (X) 3). They'll probably get it going initially and feel the route out and then plan for more trains as ridership demand increases.

We're both right. Trains will run every half hour during peak period and every 2 hours off-peak. To quote CFRail.com:

"As the system matures, FDOT already has done an environmental analysis that would allow local officials to increase the frequency of trains to every 15 minutes during peak hours and every hour during off-peak times. However, that's not expected to happen for at least 20 years or more, and then only in response to community demand for more frequent service."

[spenser1058]

the boobirds in Polk are making a stink, as predicted a while back:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/...0,3448207.story

More on this from the Lakeland Ledger:

http://www.theledger.com/article/20071214/.../712140428/1039

Edited December 15, 2007 by spenser1058

[JRS1]

that pisses me off. to think some Tampa pr!cks can influence whether the State pays the earmarked $$$ or not burns me-- them voicing concern for Polk is like Jesse Jackson and Sharpton always getting involved in issues that have nothing to do with them.

[neon9]

here's a question for y'all: what will determine when these commuter trains honk their horns? will they have to?

i live right along the orange ave-area rails (literally, about . . . 30 yards away), and i've noticed that the freight and amtrak trains usually honk their horns at about the same place--if they honk. (it seems to be hit or miss.) i've always been curious as to what signals the engineers to honk their horns. are there signs along the rails (perhaps before certain, high-trafficked intersections) that require it? and why don't some trains honk?

although my cat comes in off the balcony long before i even notice the slight rumble, i barely notice the trains or horns anymore (thank goodness for double-paned glass). yet i'm curious what kind of increased honking this will bring to the areas along the rails, or if commuter rails have a different protocol.

p.s. i bought this place watching the trains go by, and i am not complaining. i've loved trains since i took my first train ride as a kid from sanford to deland to visit the grandparents!

Good questions. I would think there are some signs for them to honk their horns and whatnot. I woke up last night to the (freight) trains honking since my window was open.

I have read that the light rail cars will use some kind of directional horn that directs the sound towards the front, and isn't near as loud for the people that live nearby.

[monsoon]

here's a question for y'all: what will determine when these commuter trains honk their horns? will they have to?.

The answer to this question is the FRA. Basically if a train crosses a highway crossing and it is not signalized with crossing arms that meet certain federal requirements, then the train, and it does not matter what type, must blow it's horn to let traffic know that it is coming.

In order for the commuter trains to be exempt from the requirement to have to blow their horns, all of the grade crossings would have to be upgraded to meet the requirements for low noise. It costs more money.

[slapdash09]

The answer to this question is the FRA. Basically if a train crosses a highway crossing and it is not signalized with crossing arms that meet certain federal requirements, then the train, and it does not matter what type, must blow it's horn to let traffic know that it is coming.

In order for the commuter trains to be exempt from the requirement to have to blow their horns, all of the grade crossings would have to be upgraded to meet the requirements for low noise. It costs more money.

interesting, monsoon. thank you for the information.

so that means i must hear southbound trains honking their horns in my area at marks st. (but not at orange ave. because of grade crossings). i probably never notice the northbound trains because the horns aren't in my direction. i wonder if this plan below includes a grade crossing upgrade at marks street . . .

. . .probably not. but i did watch cxs switch out wooden railroad ties last night for a few hours. to me, track safety is the most important investment. that crazy machine assembly line to remove and replace spike and plates went on and on . . . it was fascinating maintenance work!

[neon9]

interesting, monsoon. thank you for the information.

so that means i must hear southbound trains honking their horns in my area at marks st. (but not at orange ave. because of grade crossings). i probably never notice the northbound trains because the horns aren't in my direction. i wonder if this plan below includes a grade crossing upgrade at marks street . . .

. . .probably not. but i did watch cxs switch out wooden railroad ties last night for a few hours. to me, track safety is the most important investment. that crazy machine assembly line to remove and replace spike and plates went on and on . . . it was fascinating maintenance work!

Yeah I got stuck in that the other day.

This is from the commuter rail website....

FDOT has committed to mitigate potential noise impacts along the proposed route for commuter rail. That includes the installation of horn shrouds to better direct warning signals on commuter trains and new track signalization. In addition, most areas also will see a dramatic reduction in freight trains, which do not currently use horn shrouds. As such, environmental analyses prepared by the state do not anticipate adverse noise effects with the commuter rail project.

So I guess they are promising it won't be any worse that it is now

[Altimike]

We're both right. Trains will run every half hour during peak period and every 2 hours off-peak. To quote CFRail.com:

"As the system matures, FDOT already has done an environmental analysis that would allow local officials to increase the frequency of trains to every 15 minutes during peak hours and every hour during off-peak times. However, that's not expected to happen for at least 20 years or more, and then only in response to community demand for more frequent service."

Arrgh, you've got to be kidding me! We have to wait 20 years to get a train that comes every 15 minutes to an hour? Denver's

light rail

has only been around 7 years and they have stops every 4 minutes in some areas. Now they have plans to add 119 miles of track to their existing 35 miles around the same time Orlando gets 60 miles of track that has trains come by ever 30 minutes to 2 hours! Later guys, I think I'll take the cold over this city's lackwit planning. =

[bic]

Arrgh, you've got to be kidding me! We have to wait 20 years to get a train that comes every 15 minutes to an hour? Denver's

light rail

has only been around 7 years and they have stops every 4 minutes in some areas. Now they have plans to add 119 miles of track to their existing 35 miles around the same time Orlando gets 60 miles of track that has trains come by ever 30 minutes to 2 hours! Later guys, I think I'll take the cold over this city's lackwit planning. =

Don't confuse lightrail with commuter rail. Orlando's commuter rail is going to run on a strict--albeit infrequent--schedule. Lightrail operates more like a subway line where the trains are MUCH shorter, there are a lot more of them, stations are closer together, and there is no set schedule...just a high frequency of train stopping briefly at their stops (like a bus). Commuter rail operates more like Grehound whereas lightrail is akin to Downtown Orlando's Lymmo system.

Let's look at Boston's MBTA commuter rail schedule...specifically the Framingham/Worcester line inbound to Boston's South Station [source]. During the week, frequency during peak times varies from 9-30 minutes, for an average of about 20 minutes or so. Off-peak frequency gets as high as 1 hour and 45-50 minutes, for an average of about an hour and a half. That's for a metro over twice our size with a huge commuter rail/subway network and its frequencies really aren't that different from what ours will be.

[prahaboheme]

But let's hope that Orlando's commuter rail is nothing like Boston's Framingham/Worcester line. That line is fraught with track delays, rarely is on time, and is so bad at providing adequate service that many people forgo using it.

I commuted the Worcester line having lived in Wellesley Hills for 7 months and cannot remember one delay--even during snow emergencies.

[Altimike]

Don't confuse lightrail with commuter rail. Orlando's commuter rail is going to run on a strict--albeit infrequent--schedule. Lightrail operates more like a subway line where the trains are MUCH shorter, there are a lot more of them, stations are closer together, and there is no set schedule...just a high frequency of train stopping briefly at their stops (like a bus). Commuter rail operates more like Grehound whereas lightrail is akin to Downtown Orlando's Lymmo system.

Let's look at Boston's MBTA commuter rail schedule...specifically the Framingham/Worcester line inbound to Boston's South Station [source]. During the week, frequency during peak times varies from 9-30 minutes, for an average of about 20 minutes or so. Off-peak frequency gets as high as 1 hour and 45-50 minutes, for an average of about an hour and a half. That's for a metro over twice our size with a huge commuter rail/subway network and its frequencies really aren't that different from what ours will be.

Alright, thanks bic. That's a relief. I just took a look at the CFRail website and it says the frequency should be every 5-10 min. Once the Lynx trip planner is up and running along side the rail lines, our public transit should improve by a lot. It's nice to not have to hunt down your transfers and coordinate it with the schedule by yourself.

[mgsports]

A system that runs from like lets North Florida to Key West by I-10/I-95/I-4 and so on would be good with lots of stops in between.

In Orlando,Tampa Bay it could go East to West Routes to.

[Migman]

A system that runs from like lets North Florida to Key West by I-10/I-95/I-4 and so on would be good with lots of stops in between.

In Orlando,Tampa Bay it could go East to West Routes to.

Hooray Maglev!!!

[Altimike]

A system that runs from like lets North Florida to Key West by I-10/I-95/I-4 and so on would be good with lots of stops in between.

In Orlando,Tampa Bay it could go East to West Routes to.

Well stated...

[prahaboheme]

I wasn't sure this warranted its own thread, so I'll stick it here. If a mod chooses, move this into a new topic. I've been thinking a lot about the idea of street cars in downtown Orlando. It seems this form of transit is catching on nationwide; I'd like to hear your thoughts on proposed routes and if you think this is something that could work in Orlando.

My first notion is that an East-West line along Church Street would service all already thriving as well as up-and-coming downtown neighborhoods (Parramore, CBD, South Eola, Thornton Park). This line will compliment the bold vision for Church Street and connect the new venues together (the Citrus bowl, Arena, and PAC). It will also cross the commuter rail stop, making for an easy connection.

The route:

On the west side, the line starts somewhere near the Citrus Bowl, perhaps near the OBT interchange. Stops include the Citrus Bowl, various in between stops along Church Street (Heritage Park), Church/Division (the Events Center), I-4 (a galleria of shops and eateries underneath the central artery), Church Street Station (Commuter train), the Plaza (PAC), Church/Rosalind, Church/Eola, Church/Summerlin--at this point it heads North into Thornton Park making stops until it ends due West of Harrison Elementary.

High density redevelopment should be encouraged along Church Street (including South Eola); this ensures that Church Street becomes a high traffic route and pedestrians literally dump into the streetcars. Further, the streetcars should modern and sleek--I would steer clear of historic-looking cars.

Good:

Miami

Charlotte

Bad:

What are your thoughts?

[bulldogger]

The example of what Miami wants to do matches what they already have for their Metro Mover system. The Charlotte trolley looks like Tampa's, except Tampa's are actually that old.

I just don't see us getting rail like that downtown yet. $$$$

[codypet]

The example of what Miami wants to do matches what they already have for their Metro Mover system. The Charlotte trolley looks like Tampa's, except Tampa's are actually that old.

I just don't see us getting rail like that downtown yet. $$$$

How would you cross the CFRail tracks with these tracks?

[bulldogger]

How would you cross the CFRail tracks with these tracks?

This trolley will go inside a tube underground like the Shark Encounter at SeaWorld as it goes through the aquifer.

[FLheat]

On the west side, the line starts somewhere near the Citrus Bowl, perhaps near the OBT interchange. Stops include the Citrus Bowl, various in between stops along Church Street (Heritage Park), Church/Division (the Events Center), I-4 (a galleria of shops and eateries underneath the central artery), Church Street Station (Commuter train), the Plaza (PAC), Church/Rosalind, Church/Eola, Church/Summerlin--at this point it heads North into Thornton Park making stops until it ends due West of Harrison Elementary.

High density redevelopment should be encouraged along Church Street (including South Eola); this ensures that Church Street becomes a high traffic route and pedestrians literally dump into the streetcars. Further, the streetcars should modern and sleek--I would steer clear of historic-looking cars.

What are your thoughts?

We already have the downtown LYMO which is free and it will be expanded. I don't see the need to go through the additional expense for a cool "trend" unless it is supporting a go-green initiative.

[Fargin]

I wasn't sure this warranted its own thread, so I'll stick it here. If a mod chooses, move this into a new topic. I've been thinking a lot about the idea of street cars in downtown Orlando. It seems this form of transit is catching on nationwide; I'd like to hear your thoughts on proposed routes and if you think this is something that could work in Orlando.

If you are really interested in this topic, you should take a look at the following link: (**Warning: Do not attempt to access link with a slow internet connection. Link downloads a 54mb PDF document**)

Downtown Orlando Transportation Plan

Once downloaded, take a look at Section 5 since it covers much of what you refer to in your post.

[OCF]

I agree that the Lymmo is already a good system for downtown CURRENTLY. It provides the same type of service and convenience for less initial costs. If I remember right, I've heard that the plan was to expand the service on Central into Thornton park once the new Publix and other condos are done. I've also heard speculation that the line could be expanded as far north as Ivanhoe and a new line would be added on Church street to serve the venues. I've ridden it many times and find it very convenient and the buses come pretty frequently. The other great thing about it is that it operates in it's own designated lane so it's not affected by traffic congestion. There's been speculation that designing the Lymmo system initially as a bus operated transport is just laying down the foundation to eventually turn it into a street car type system. Makes sense since there will be roadway designated for it and it would be alot easier to convert the existing Lymmo lanes to trolley tracks.

[bulldogger]

They plan on having an EW circulator like Lymmo and expanding the current system to both hospitals. I wonder if they still plan on doing the NS expansions with the commuter rail basically doing the same thing. As codypet mentioned, how would they cross the commuter rail tracks near the Lynx station? I use the Lymmo and sure a trolley car would be nice, but considering that the buses don't fill up now unless there is a Magic game, the buses are fine. The only complaint I have is that diesel fumes suck. An alternative fuel source would be nice, but isn't that everyone's concern right now throughout our country and the world for that matter.

[pip]

I wasn't sure this warranted its own thread, so I'll stick it here. If a mod chooses, move this into a new topic. I've been thinking a lot about the idea of street cars in downtown Orlando. It seems this form of transit is catching on nationwide; I'd like to hear your thoughts on proposed routes and if you think this is something that could work in Orlando.

If you are really interested in this topic, you should take a look at the following link: (**Warning: Do not attempt to access link with a slow internet connection. Link downloads a 54mb PDF document**)

Downtown Orlando Transportation Plan

Once downloaded, take a look at Section 5 since it covers much of what you refer to in your post.

Hey bic, the image on page 5-20 (sect 5, page 20) looks a bit familiar, no?

[codypet]

Hey bic, the image on page 5-20 (sect 5, page 20) looks a bit familiar, no?

First Dynetech's website and now this? I'd start to demand royalties.

[monsoon]

The example of what Miami wants to do matches what they already have for their Metro Mover system. The Charlotte trolley looks like Tampa's, except Tampa's are actually that old.

I just don't see us getting rail like that downtown yet. $$$$

That is an old proposal for Charlotte that was not built. Charlotte did open a light rail line last month. There is an extensive topic on it in the Charlotte section.