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sunshine

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You're exactly right. The Republicans entire philosophy on spending can be summed up in your last sentence, with no room for debate since it is "pretty much accepted" (by whom? how many people were sampled? where are these numbers coming from?)

There are far more than 2 or 3 D's who did/will/may vote against it.

Well, I'm not about to get into a partisan political pissing match here in this forum, because it would be inappropriate & off topic.

I think a look at past history & a little common sense would suffice as the answer to your questions.

Some things don't need statistics because they fall under the heading of common knowledge.

Try to relax, now.

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Well, I'm not about to get into a partisan political pissing match here in this forum, because it would be inappropriate & off topic.

I think a look at past history & a little common sense would suffice as the answer to your questions.

Some things don't need statistics because they fall under the heading of common knowledge.

Try to relax, now.

You're right, why bother with history when you have "common knowledge?"

I was never worked up, were you?

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imagine Woogie (Chris Elliott) blabbing to Mary in "There's Something About Mary" in that final scene in the movie when he reveals himself to her with all those hives on his face, when I say:

-Worked up, shmirked up... reps, dems, roads, rail, I just want this darn thing to get built...

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Since all the bickering is about money, I wonder if there would be a way to get some stimulus money for the Sun-Rail since Obama appears to be big on high-speed rail. Honestly, high-speed rail to/from Orlando to anywhere doesn't make sense without the Sun-Rail. Once you get off the high-speed rail, you'd have to spend a lot of money on a cab to go anywhere and it would make more sense to drive. With Sun-Rail in place, it makes total sense for high-speed rail and vice-versa.

Also, Charlie Crist, you lost any potential chance for my vote going forward and I am a registered republican. You said you supported Sun-Rail but you seemed to be pretty quiet about it and this is a big failure on your part to not help push this through. 15 of the 23 votes against this were by fellow republicans. Good luck on your bid for President. You have nothing to stand on with accomplishments in the state of Florida.

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Since all the bickering is about money, I wonder if there would be a way to get some stimulus money for the Sun-Rail since Obama appears to be big on high-speed rail. Honestly, high-speed rail to/from Orlando to anywhere doesn't make sense without the Sun-Rail. Once you get off the high-speed rail, you'd have to spend a lot of money on a cab to go anywhere and it would make more sense to drive. With Sun-Rail in place, it makes total sense for high-speed rail and vice-versa.

Also, Charlie Crist, you lost any potential chance for my vote going forward and I am a registered republican. You said you supported Sun-Rail but you seemed to be pretty quiet about it and this is a big failure on your part to not help push this through. 15 of the 23 votes against this were by fellow republicans. Good luck on your bid for President. You have nothing to stand on with accomplishments in the state of Florida.

The Fed was already going to pony up 600M of the 1.2B for SunRail. Plus, with SunRail we would have been more likely to get 1-2B for a HSR link. So in essence, what the Senate did was to turn down anywhere from 1.6 - 2.6 billion in Fed money that will now probably go to another state because they thought our 600M should have been better negotiated with CSX.

Using basic stimulus math our .6B plus the Fed's 1.6B = about 65K jobs. If you assume that otherwise they'd be collecting unimployment at $10K/year that's $600M/year saved. In otherwords saving 600M cost us 600M (break-even) not to mention saved hardship on the families, sales tax on what they'd be spending, other safty net costs ... and that's justs the benefit from the construction without counting the benefit from actually having these two trains.

While you may want to fall back on the Fed debt and "tax to our children" bit ... that train has already left the station. That money is going somewhere ... either to Florida or somewhere else. So if we're paying for it anyway, we might as well be riding it here in Florida.

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What always gets me is that when the pols figure the cost of "doing things" they never factor in the cost of "not doing things." More times than not the cost of not doing something is greater than the cost of doing it.

It's like that FRAM air filter guy. "You can pay me now: $59.95, or you can pay me later $899.00."

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The Fed was already going to pony up 600M of the 1.2B for SunRail. Plus, with SunRail we would have been more likely to get 1-2B for a HSR link. So in essence, what the Senate did was to turn down anywhere from 1.6 - 2.6 billion in Fed money that will now probably go to another state because they thought our 600M should have been better negotiated with CSX.

Using basic stimulus math our .6B plus the Fed's 1.6B = about 65K jobs. If you assume that otherwise they'd be collecting unimployment at $10K/year that's $600M/year saved. In otherwords saving 600M cost us 600M (break-even) not to mention saved hardship on the families, sales tax on what they'd be spending, other safty net costs ... and that's justs the benefit from the construction without counting the benefit from actually having these two trains.

While you may want to fall back on the Fed debt and "tax to our children" bit ... that train has already left the station. That money is going somewhere ... either to Florida or somewhere else. So if we're paying for it anyway, we might as well be riding it here in Florida.

Not to mention the nearly $30M+ they have spent on buying land for train stations.

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What is wrong with these people

1. Paula Dockery's husband is a big supporter of high-speed rail but Jeb kills it.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/...0,1886846.story

2. Jeb rides into Orlando for the Sun-Rail and Paula Dockery kills it.

3. Charlie Crist supposedly supports Sun-Rail but Paula Dockery's husband quits the high-speed rail board because Charlie isn't taking the steps to get it going:

http://www.theledger.com/article/20090406/NEWS/904065037

There seems to be a big conflict-of-interest hear with Paula Dockery and her husband when it comes to trains. Orlando's tab for Sun-Rail was going to be 2.6 billion over the next 30 years. Tampa is looking to build a system for 25 billion over 25 years. There has to be more going on here:

http://county.theledger.com/default.asp?item=2368760

Edited by scottb411
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Florida is a joke. I watched the senate debate on flsenate.gove on Friday afternoon, and when they called for a yay or nay before the votes were placed on the video board, the nays were shouting out with anger like a bunch of highschoolers. what a bunch of freakin' jokes. well, the joke's on us... for now... and this thing is not 100% dead... not yet.

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Speaking as someone who's lived in this state for over 40 years..... Florida is a friggin joke.

it's really depressing isn't it? I was born and raised here and all I see is the state moving backward. They're still prattling on and on about property tax reform. I lived in Palm Beach County when Tri-Rail started up and they didn't have near the hurdles Central Florida has had when it comes to getting approval. I got a press release from Dyer's office and Metroplan sent out a press release too. Dyer says he's going to try to figure out a way to keep moving forward. Metroplan is in a bit of a bind because they're in the middle of their Long Range Plan Update and SunRail was the centerpiece. There's no more money for roads really and now that SunRail isn't going forward we're kinda screwed when it comes to I-4 construction. This region is really at a point where building roads is not a solution.

I think part of the problem was that FDOT purposely used the most conservative ridership estimates possible so that when they exceeded their estimates they could claim success...I think it may have backfired somewhat.

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Guys,

I am all for the Sun Rail, but as someone who works for the government, I just took a 2% paycut because the state is running out of money. Sun Rail should and will happen, there just isn't enough money...even with the Federal help, to justify it now.

Edited by Magicfan95
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Parts of an interesting read I had recently:

"Generally speaking, commercial enterprises are able to satisfy consumer demands unencumbered by government interference."

"Only when it comes to public goods or to private goods with strong spillover effects--roads, monetary stability, a legal system, primary education, a cross-border financial system--does the state seem to be sorely missed."

Perhaps this is the sort of future our State leaders envision.

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its funny. the way they put the rental surcharge on 1212 for Trirail, CSX said: "we'll sell you the A-line tracks for whatever if you fund our ILC and improve the S-Line".

if CSX isn't willing to renegotiate so that we can use the A-line for CRT, then they can go f*ck themselves. if the way it is is that the tracks have to be owned by the State to use them for CRT, then so be it. otherwise, if the State can pay a usage fee and if they could, I'm sure the State would have to assume full liability for any accidents, then that could work as well, b/c CSX is going to lessen freight traffic there anyway.

I think CSX didn't want to give the State the option of leasing the tracks, if that was a viable option. pr*cks.

sorry for the tone of my post.

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  • sunshine changed the title to SunRail

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