SunRail

[mrh3]

This is by far the most self righteous, indulgent city in Florida:

"Commissioners also included language to give Winter Park the right to move the location of its commuter-rail stop if the city experiences any "adverse impacts," such as increased congestion or crime downtown or a drop in local business.

Commissioner Carolyn Cooper, one of the amendment proponents, argued that the city should be as prepared as possible for any changes commuter rail could bring to Winter Park.

'We have an incredible city here, and we have the stop on the line that right now is going to be the most attractive,' Cooper said."

What a ridiculous statement -- there is not correlation between crime and commuter rail, whereas, there is a correlation between increased business (not decreased) and commuter rail.

Winter Park is indeed a beautiful city, but I know of plenty that are as beautiful, or more so, and are serviced by commuter trains, traveling right through their respective centers. For starters: Newton, Wellesley, Hingham, Winchester, Beverly, MA; Bronxville, Westchester, NY; Villanova, PA.

I'm so irritated by this small mindedness. It's a comprehensive plan, it's the best, most direct route of any commuter train in the state of Florida (or will be) and needs the full cooperation of all involved. Of course, once it gets started, Winter Park will never look back and will likely be taking all the credit for the success of the line. And while Winter Park may have the most beautiful stop on the line right now, many of the other station plans are promising.

I really think you hit the nail on the head with that one Praha. One of the most critical things I've always noticed about Orlando and Florida in general is the incongruity of its power structure and its population. Given that most of the people in political power that grew up in Orlando view the area as a regional citrus town. In the meantime upwards of 3-4 million people have moved into the area and the current power players lack the insight or foresight to cope with this urbanization.

When you think about the railroad suburbs of Philadelphia's Main Line, San Francisco's San Mateo County, New York's Westchester and Lower Hudson Valley or Chicago or Boston's North Shore (Respectively the highest concentration of wealth in this hemisphere.) These towns were all built on rail lines during the gilded age so that wealthier citizens could escape the harshness of congested urban life. What Winter Park's problem is is that it appears that few of their council members have a historical perspective on this trend. Perhaps a delegation can take them on a tour of Marblehead, Lake Forest, Greenwich, or Hillsboro, CA. I'm sure that it would be a very eye opening experience for them.

[palmtree73]

I really think you hit the nail on the head with that one Praha. One of the most critical things I've always noticed about Orlando and Florida in general is the incongruity of its power structure and its population. Given that most of the people in political power that grew up in Orlando view the area as a regional citrus town. In the meantime upwards of 3-4 million people have moved into the area and the current power players lack the insight or foresight to cope with this urbanization.

When you think about the railroad suburbs of Philadelphia's Main Line, San Francisco's San Mateo County, New York's Westchester and Lower Hudson Valley or Chicago or Boston's North Shore (Respectively the highest concentration of wealth in this hemisphere.) These towns were all built on rail lines during the gilded age so that wealthier citizens could escape the harshness of congested urban life. What Winter Park's problem is is that it appears that few of their council members have a historical perspective on this trend. Perhaps a delegation can take them on a tour of Marblehead, Lake Forest, Greenwich, or Hillsboro, CA. I'm sure that it would be a very eye opening experience for them.

One thing I've never understood since moving here four years ago is what makes Winter Park so special. To me it's just another neighborhood -- albeit a wealthy one but just another part of Orlando. Even in Atlanta, "exclusive" Buckhead has three MARTA stations, and that area is booming. Maybe that's what opponents are afraid of. Afterall, this is a town where there construction of a simple five-story condo nearly divided the community.

[prahaboheme]

palmtree77, I think it's all about perception. Winter Park considers itself a "boutique" city and by it's very essence that means it regards itself as special and exclusive along the lines of say, Carmel-by-the-Sea or Palm Beach. This can be a bit misleading as perception is often times not reality, and Winter Park is still part of the greater Orlando metro area (like Coral Gables, Brookline, MA, Buckhead, GA) and has undeniably benefited by it's proximity to Orlando business and commerce but not necessarily vice versa (though surely Winter Park residents think otherwise).

There are other neighborhoods that I personally consider Winter Park's equal: College Park, Delaney Park, Belle Isle, Windermere, Celebration, Thornton Park, Maitland, Heathrow, etc.

[mrh3]

palmtree77, I think it's all about perception. Winter Park considers itself a "boutique" city and by it's very essence that means it regards itself as special and exclusive along the lines of say, Carmel-by-the-Sea or Palm Beach. This can be a bit misleading as perception is often times not reality, and Winter Park is still part of the greater Orlando metro area (like Coral Gables, Brookline, MA, Buckhead, GA) and has undeniably benefited by it's proximity to Orlando business and commerce but not necessarily vice versa (though surely Winter Park residents think otherwise).

There are other neighborhoods that I personally consider Winter Park's equal: College Park, Delaney Park, Belle Isle, Windermere, Celebration, Thornton Park, Maitland, Heathrow, etc.

I'd love to see a ZIP Code Median Home Price chart for Orlando. If I'm correct, Isleworth still takes the cake.

[bulldogger]

Why aren't any of the train stations enclosed to provide some air conditioning, protection from rain and space for vendors?

[prahaboheme]

$$$

[Jernigan]

I believe that the state is providing the basic station platform with minimal amenities and from there the local municipalities are able to upgrade as they see fit.

[prahaboheme]

Most of the commuter stations up here (in Mass) do not have indoor protection. That would certainly be a nice benefit in the winter, though. One benefit to having minimal shelter is that local businesses often get the run-off from those waiting at train stations (coffee shops, convenience stores, etc.) and it therefore encourages development.

I believe the only stations along SunRail that will have some indoor amenities will be the Amtrak station stop in downtown Orlando, the Lynx Central terminal, and the Kissimmee station.

[bulldogger]

I'm just thinking about how hot it gets in the summer and more importantly the angle of the rain during the afternoon thunderstorms that plague Central Florida at this time of year.

[bic]

From The Orlando Sentinel:

The Florida Department of Transportation is considering three designs that would run along the sides of the planned $1.2 billion SunRail commuter train slated for Metro Orlando. The artist who came up with the options, Jim Bockstall of Orlando, said the idea is to incorporate the colors of the early morning and evening -- the projected peak commute times of the train. The train is supposed to be up and running in Volusia, Seminole and Orange Counties, including four stops in Orlando, by mid-2013. What's your favorite?

[prahaboheme]

I think I prefer the first one.

[tc01]

I like the first one too.

[go_vertical]

The third one kind of falls into that "typical" look. It's nice, but I almost feel like I have seen it in many other cities. The first design is quite impressive. Especially if the sun's rays sweep down the side of the entire train.

[prahaboheme]

I agree, the first design is playfully fun "Florida" without being tacky like Lymmo.

[bulldogger]

The third one kind of falls into that "typical" look. It's nice, but I almost feel like I have seen it in many other cities. The first design is quite impressive. Especially if the sun's rays sweep down the side of the entire train.

They have to make sure the beginning of each "ray" starts and ends at the same point at the beginning and ending of each car so that the flow isn't interrupted if they decide to move cars around or add more.

[Ocityst]

SunRail makes plans for folks after they get off the train

[mrh3]

As far as the designs go, I vote for none of the above. I'd rather see a Bright Yellow train with blue/red/green lettering. It would be ideal for visibility from a distance and represent SunRail better than any applied logo could. Also, there will be huge ad revenue potential for the cars so I would imagine that the original design won't remain on every train.

Edited September 7, 2010 by mrh3

[DeepEyez]

I noticed on the map that the plans call for service from DeLand down to Poinciana.....I wonder why they didn't go all the way up to Daytona Beach? I just think it would of made much more sense if I lived in Kissimmee and be able to take the train to the beach. I wonder if in 6-7 years if Daytona will ask for their own stop along SunRail.

[spenser1058]

I noticed on the map that the plans call for service from DeLand down to Poinciana.....I wonder why they didn't go all the way up to Daytona Beach? I just think it would of made much more sense if I lived in Kissimmee and be able to take the train to the beach. I wonder if in 6-7 years if Daytona will ask for their own stop along SunRail.

Unless something has changed, the tracks they use don't go to Daytona. They parallel US17 up to Jacksonville.

[prahaboheme]

What I am really hoping for (wide eyed) is a spur from the Sand Lake stop that runs out to Four Corners. It could follow the same route as HSR with a stop at the convention center, I-Drive South, and Celebration, and then head on out to Four Corners. This would solve the issue of connect-ability for commuters to Disney (many of who live out there).

While Daytona Beach would be nice, I do think that it would be a little bit far for commuter traffic to warrant it.

Edited September 7, 2010 by prahaboheme

[DeepEyez]

Unless something has changed, the tracks they use don't go to Daytona. They parallel US17 up to Jacksonville.

Oh okay, I get it.....it would be nice though, I wonder if Volusia County is going t find a way to connect Daytona Beach to the DeLand stop.

[bic]

SunRail Makes Plans for Folks After They Get Off The Train

[spenser1058]

Oh okay, I get it.....it would be nice though, I wonder if Volusia County is going t find a way to connect Daytona Beach to the DeLand stop.

A beach run would be nice although I'd be partial to New Smyrna myself.

[spenser1058]

What I am really hoping for (wide eyed) is a spur from the Sand Lake stop that runs out to Four Corners. It could follow the same route as HSR with a stop at the convention center, I-Drive South, and Celebration, and then head on out to Four Corners. This would solve the issue of connect-ability for commuters to Disney (many of who live out there).

While Daytona Beach would be nice, I do think that it would be a little bit far for commuter traffic to warrant it.

The Light Rail we almost got, until it was shot down by Clarence Hoenstine (may his name live in infamy), would have departed from the CSX tracks south of downtown, heading to International Drive and Disney. Light rail, of course, would also have been much more flexible and would have run more often. That's why Sun Rail is better than nothing but I've never been as excited about it as some. But we take what we can get and kudos to John Mica and all the others for coming up with SOMETHING after we snatched a light rail defeat from the jaws of victory.

Edited September 7, 2010 by spenser1058

[bic]

The Light Rail we almost got, until it was shot down by Clarence Hoenstine (may his name live in infamy), would have departed from the CSX tracks south of downtown, heading to International Drive and Disney. Light rail, of course, would also have been much more flexible and would have run more often. That's why Sun Rail is better than nothing but I've never been as excited about it as some. But we take what we can get and kudos to John Mica and all the others for coming up with SOMETHING after we snatched a light rail defeat from the jaws of victory.

While I'm happy to see SunRail and HSR coming together, the truth is the two systems don't complement each other all that well since they were developed independently. What Orlando will need is a light rail line that bridges the gap between the two systems and comprehensively connects the tourist corridor to downtown.

Ideally, once SunRail and High Speed Rail are in place, I'd like to see a light rail that sort of connects the dots between the attractions area and downtown. The first phase would begin at the OCCC HSR station, travel up I-Drive (or Universal Blvd.) and include key stations at Pointe Orlando, Wet n Wild, Prime Outlets I-Drive, Universal Orlando, Mall at Millenia, with a couple of stops inbetween, and then through whatever route it can take to get to Church Street Station/LYNX Central Station. One such route could possibly be up John Young Parkway until Church Street, and then east towards downtown, passing the Citrus Bowl and Amway Center. This could later be expanded eastward towards UCF.

With such a route in place, a tourist staying at Disney, Universal, or Downtown could get to most of Orlando's major points of interest just by using public transportation. Furthermore, it would encourage the habitation of downtown, since one would be able to easily get to a couple of the region's major malls and nightlife venues by light rail. This would help to alleviate traffic on I-4 by getting tourists and locals alike off the road and into trains when they attend events at the Citrus Bowl, Amway Center, Universal, etc. It could also cut down on the number of drunk drivers since people would have a reasonable transit alternative when going out at night.