SunRail

[Alleri459]

If Mobility 20/20 came up again, it would certainly pass this time around. The region is still going through with some of those proposals listed in the bill even without the dedicated source of funding. I really hope something along the lines comes back, that funding will make such a huge difference.

[jliv]

If Mobility 20/20 came up again, it would certainly pass this time around. The region is still going through with some of those proposals listed in the bill even without the dedicated source of funding. I really hope something along the lines comes back, that funding will make such a huge difference.

 

We should remember the history lessons:

 

1999 - Orange County refuses to contribute to a southern light-rail line after lack of support from the northern cities like Winter Park causes the northern section to be removed from the first phase.  Commissioner Homer Hartage casts the deciding vote, fearing more Orange County dollars helping Osceola County tourism interests.  Difficult negotiations with CSX over right-of-way usage also creates fatigue with the political leadership.  After a failed last-ditch attempt by Glenda Hood to revive the line within Orlando city limits, the federal contribution is sent to Charlotte, where Mecklenburg County voters were actually given the chance to vote on an extensive mass-transit system and gladly did.

 

2004 - A vague $400 million plan for some sort of mass-transit system is included in Mobility 2020, with a much larger plan to accelerate the I-4 reconstruction project.  Voters gasp at the variable toll road planned by the FDOT down the center of I-4, leading to a resounding defeat.

 

What are the lessons?  A clear vision for the metro Orlando's transportation future needs to be articulated to the public, geared towards workers and students commuting between Orlando's sprawling activity centers.  Another infrastructure project benefiting Disney and Universal will not fly.  The Denver FasTracks plan is the model here. SunRail fits into the overall plan, but would only be the backbone to a much broader, integrated system.  

[Jernigan]

SB - why would people need to take 2-3 buses to their suburban train station? I think you made a good argument against living car-free outside of downtown, but there's a reason each station outside of town has 300 parking spaces and free parking!

Lake Mary into downtown on I4 in rush hour isn't exactly a joy ride either.

[Casselberry_Knight]

SB - why would people need to take 2-3 buses to their suburban train station? I think you made a good argument against living car-free outside of downtown, but there's a reason each station outside of town has 300 parking spaces and free parking!

Lake Mary into downtown on I4 in rush hour isn't exactly a joy ride either.

Good points. And I agree, once you get outside the Urban downtown core Sunrail should really start working great.

Lake Mary, Sanford, Debary are the three stops that are far enough for sunrail to be practical.

I wonder how many people who live downtown will use it daily? I'd imagine if you're paying the premium of living downtown you likely already work there?

But as others said...its a backbone. If we can expand with Phase 2 & Light rail service one day this can be a hit.

I just hope the media doesn't hurt the image this year when the trains sit half empty (although I guess with a limited schedule that should help with the image?)

Also... Wouldn't a Disney/OIA/OCCCOCCC line be a easy sell for tax payer money? If the Maglev investors believe it will return a profit why not just have FDOT do it? Giving away the "sexiest" light rail line to a for profit company may be the biggest mistake Orlando will make!! Do it ourselves and keep prices to a fair price. I believe Maglev was thinking $15 a person..

Just my random thoughts...

[tm68]

Part of me agrees with your Maglec comment Suburb Mike.

 

It needs to integrete seamlessly with Sunrail or risk being less effective.

 

For example, the Air Train at JFK airport in New York.  I dislike having to get off the subway, then board a 3rd party transit system with a seperate fare to get to the airport.

 

A good example is the L in chicago, which travels directly from the city into the airport on the same rail line.

[Casselberry_Knight]

Part of me agrees with your Maglec comment Suburb Mike.

 

It needs to integrete seamlessly with Sunrail or risk being less effective.

 

For example, the Air Train at JFK airport in New York.  I dislike having to get off the subway, then board a 3rd party transit system with a seperate fare to get to the airport.

 

A good example is the L in chicago, which travels directly from the city into the airport on the same rail line.

 

Yeah I'm not sure if I have final design reports, but from what I've seen it would only have 3-4 stops and a low speed (30mph), while charging around $10-20 a ticket. If their goal is to max profit, and not max ridership (which I'm sure it is), how useful is this to the community?

 

The Light Rail "OIA-Connector" study (you can find it on Metroplan Orlando's website btw) would have about 10-15 stops, and depending on the route would include big local businesses like Lockheed Martin. If following something similar to Sunrail would come in around $3 a ticket. Of course getting support for what seems like a slam dunk (getting tourist off local roads for little to none tax payer money) isn't always easy. OIA, OOCEA and the rental car business are all anti-light-rail because it would hurt their income (Car rental fees, Toll Money, etc). 

Edited March 12, 2014 by Suburb Mike

[jrs2]

The Maglev or whatever train proposal gets approval for that corridor will do wonders for the connectivity of OIA to I-Drive/OCCC.  It's not every day a private company has the resources or confidence in a corridor in a notoriously non-transit oriented city to pump its $$$ into such a project. 

 

Because of this, I say give them whatever they need to get it done and it will save taxpayers $$$.  Also, I don't think it would get done otherwise period.  If its a little bit more expensive so be it; when traveling, that's expected. 

 

I was hoping the SLR station would be designed to handle two systems, but, b/c of timing etc, it wasn't.  I think the best case scenario is to have Sunrail go to OIA Intermodal for the optimum advanced connectivity.

[Casselberry_Knight]

See this worries me.

 

For the OOCEA/Turnpike the goal (and yeah, I know there have been issues here) is to provide the best highway system system using tolls. Since the money is NOT tax-funded they need to do serious studies, work with the banks, get loans and pay them off. But besides profits banks make, nobody is expecting a 20% profit margin.

 

With the Maglev (and the express I-4 lanes btw) they need to break even....AND turn a profit...and then make more profit after it's all paid off. 

 

Now you could say that's just America at its best....BUT...to give a company like the Maglev a semi-monopoly (528 can only be widen so far after all) on a route (OIA to I-Drive) is a dangerous game. And yeah, you could say that government stinks and never does anything right ( which may be true ). But if a company is jumping up and down to build something on YOUR land (state/city owned ROWs), I think it would be smart to double & triple check that it is the right move.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Suburb Mike

[gibby]

The Maglev or whatever train proposal gets approval for that corridor will do wonders for the connectivity of OIA to I-Drive/OCCC.  It's not every day a private company has the resources or confidence in a corridor in a notoriously non-transit oriented city to pump its $$$ into such a project. 

 

Because of this, I say give them whatever they need to get it done and it will save taxpayers $$$.  Also, I don't think it would get done otherwise period.  If its a little bit more expensive so be it; when traveling, that's expected. 

 

I was hoping the SLR station would be designed to handle two systems, but, b/c of timing etc, it wasn't.  I think the best case scenario is to have Sunrail go to OIA Intermodal for the optimum advanced connectivity.

What would this do to trips between Kissimmee and Orlando after Phase 2 is complete?  Connecting All Aboard to LCS would be best in my opinion.

[prahaboheme]

More SunRail updates -- about 1.5 months to Phase I opening date:

Sand Lake Road Station:

Sand Lake Road SunRail Station by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Ticket Vending Machines at Sand Lake Road by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Sand Lake Road Handicapped Accessible Parking by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Amtrak / Orlando Regional Hospital Station:

Orlando Health/Orlando Amtrak Station Platform by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Orlando Health/Amtrak Brick Work by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Orlando Amtrak/Orlando Health SunRail Station by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Church Street Station:

SunRail Train at Church Street Station by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Church Street SunRail Station by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Church Street Station Canopy Construction by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Lynx Central Station:

Ticket Vending Machine at LYNX Central Station by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Ticket Vending Machine at LYNX Central Station by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

LYNX Central SunRail Station by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Florida Hospital Station:

Florida Hospital Station Platform by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Florida Hospital SunRail Station by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Winter Park Station:

Winter Park Station Canopies by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Winter Park Station from Central Park by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Welcome to Winter Park by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Maitland Station:

Maitland Platform Finishes by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Altamonte Springs Station:

Ticket Vending Machines at the Altamonte Springs Station by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Altamonte Springs Station Platform by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Altamonte Springs Station Landscaping by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Longwood Station:

Longwood Station Platform and Canopy by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Longwood SunRail Station by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Longwood SunRail Station by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Longwood SunRail Station Landscaping by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Lake Mary Station:

Lake Mary SunRail Station by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Ticket Vending Machines in Lake Mary by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Lake Mary SunRail Station by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Sanford Station:

Ticket Vending Machines on the Sanford Platform by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

DeBary Station:

DeBary SunRail Station Platform by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Ticket Vending Machines in DeBary by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Welcome to the DeBary Station by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

[Casselberry_Knight]

Looks pretty awesome. Thanks for sharing!

[gibby]

Yeah, these look much better than the Tri Rail stations.  I rode Tri Rail last weekend and their stations don't really compare to our's.

[prahaboheme]

SunRail stations tend to lean more to traditional rail design mainly because it is built in a much narrower corridor than Tr-Rail (which has huge park n' ride stations).  SunRail stations have a lot in common with the types of stations you will see in the Northeast or West.  Hopefully this will also translate into increased ridership.

[jrs2]

wow.  Longwood station is impressive.

[Jernigan]

Some observations from the photos -

The small canopies that are at the end of each platform are actually raised. I believe this is for wheelchairs to be able to board flush with the train. Should be fast boardings.

The small pedestals next to the vending machines in the last photos are where you can tap on and tap off of the train to determine your fare. Again- fast boardings.

Interesting that they are wrapping the technology there on site. The Debary ones are already wrapped - necessary for print and video media.

No clue what they are doing at Orlando Health. I assume they are trying to tie it into the train station but I'm not seeing it?

Church St canopy design seems like the most underwhelming though

Longwood is indeed amazing. The Harry Potter experience will be complete if those apartments get built.

Speaking of which - nice stuff Lake Mary! Station House looks like its on top of the platforms in that photo and we know its actually across the street with more development coming in even closer (Station Pointe). Getting it done!

[prahaboheme]

^Orlando Health / Amtrak design seems to be pulling from the Mission Revival architecture of the original station (arched canopies).

[tm68]

am i missing something or does the amtrak station badly need a paint job?  what's up with that?

[jrs2]

^^

yeah, I noticed that too. 

[RedStar25]

Is this thing running this weekend for the Winter Park Art Festival?

[Jernigan]

No - it will be there but not giving rides. You can climb in and look around though

[codypet]

No - it will be there but not giving rides. You can climb in and look around though

Oh that's a bummer.  They said they were about 60% go for running it for the festival when I went to the Winter Park Station Opening.  Did anyone notice Church St. Station was painted white now?  Nothing differentiates from Altamonte or Florida Hospital now.  Sad. 

[jrs2]

What would this do to trips between Kissimmee and Orlando after Phase 2 is complete?  Connecting All Aboard to LCS would be best in my opinion.

Nothing.  This system is ancillary.  It's primary function is to connect OIA to I-Drive/OCCC.  It's secondary function would be to link OIA to Sunrail ala SLR station.  AAF to LCS- I can see that.  But the Maglev proposal (or any proposal for that corridor) is simply, IMO, an example of confidence in the ridership possibilities between OIA and I-Drive and a way to capitalize off of that.  By capitalizing off of that, the region benefits by having yet another system as part of the transit network in CFLA.  This is only supposed to be Phase I.

 

However, I say wait until another month and a half.  Then we'll find out more about the competing proposal and what technology is involved.  Then, we'll have a better idea of the future of proposed plans of Sunrail direct linking to OIA or just a link at SLR station via the "maglev" or competing proposal.

 

Again, for the Intermodal Center at OIA to really have teeth, this "maglev" proposal really needs to get built.  It will in essence take over part of the proposed route the ORL-TAMPA HSR proposal would have taken.

 

Also, think about it...if the maglev proposal does go through, who's to say that Universal doesn't come up with something to link it's resort with the maglev station at I-Drive?  I mean, maglev would have never had a leg to stand on if Sunrail didn't exist.  It's like a reverse domino effect.  One thing begets the other.

 

It all started with I-4 and the TNPK...then Disney came.  think about it.  It's pretty amazing stuff.

[gibby]

I was asking about your last sentence on connecting Sunrail to MCO not about the maglev system.

[jrs2]

I was asking about your last sentence on connecting Sunrail to MCO not about the maglev system.

Ohhhhh.

 

Valid question.  I thought about that myself.  I'm assuming there will be a dedicated train just to go from SLR to OIA and back again.  SLR in essence would become a hub for two separate lines; the main line and the OIA line. 

 

In the same way, if OBX was built on the CFLA RR track along US 441, and if I understand correctly that CFLA RR is not interested in operating a CRT on their track (Like AAF and FEC) versus Sunrail doing it, Lynx Central would be a hub for two lines as well- the main line and the OBX line.

 

You know, I'm not so sure about that because having to get off at SLR and move your luggage to another train would be a drag.  Wait times for a return train from OIA would vary depending on the number of trains on that spur.  Still, I think they would make passengers do that, otherwise they would have to offer express OIA trains throughout the route mixed in with the regular Sunrail trains.  The most efficient thing would be to make you get off at SLR and switch trains.  I think they would have to make a larger covered station for that-- they'd have to do that I would imagine even if Maglev went there as well.

[Boomer136]

^^ Or like some other systems I've ridden have an every-other train that goes through the downtown core but at some point veers onto another destination. It has the benefit of having more trains to take people out or into the core between peak stations while allowing uninterrupted, though less frequent, service at more points without running a mostly empty unit between two or three stations. You just have to pick your train carefully, as I haven't from time to time. Colors do help.