Back in Utopia after a weekend visit to GR

[GR_Urbanist]

This conversation is getting to the point where it's in the wrong forum.. we've lost track.  Perhaps you need to get it back on track.  What was the point again?  We've gone so many different directions, I think it had something to do with Grand Rapids decay due to lack of funds.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats what I thought as well. And I agreed with his ORIGINAL point. At some point it bacame a "Grand Rapids is a racist city" bash on Freddy C's part and then he tried to accuse Joe of wanting to silence him because, as Joe had rightfully pointed out, the topic had gone way off the original point.

[twoshort]

Thats what I thought as well. And I agreed with his ORIGINAL point. At some point it bacame a "Grand Rapids is a racist city" bash on Freddy C's part and then he tried to accuse Joe of wanting to silence him because, as Joe had rightfully pointed out, the topic had gone way off the original point.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I couldn't have put it better, thank you for saynig that. I couldn't get the correct words on the page. Also, see the post titled Time Out for why you won't get a response to your comment.

[Freddy C]

Thats what I thought as well. And I agreed with his ORIGINAL point. At some point it bacame a "Grand Rapids is a racist city" bash on Freddy C's part and then he tried to accuse Joe of wanting to silence him because, as Joe had rightfully pointed out, the topic had gone way off the original point.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The topic has never really strayed, to be truthful. All that has happened is that analogies or parallels have been employed to buttress a point. For example I note the extreme case of what happened to the Detroit area, only as an example of what could transpire in the GR area, if the people are not careful. That is not straying off topic for anyone whose cognitions is not clouded by emotional bias or discomfort that subdued logical reasoning.

Race is simply the naked emperor that many of you want to avoid. The topic has always been inclusive of race, as I am an African American who juxtaposed livings in one area vs living in another. As, I noted before, politics have a lot to do with many of the difference of Minneapolis and GR, one area being traditionally liberal while the other area being traditionally conservative. Political ideology can often be ones Trojan horse for manifesting racism via the politics of denial. Many people are against big government because they do not want to see their tax dollars as transfer payments to lazy, irresponsible, morally lacking and intellectually inferior people. As consequences of such assumption, the needed government revenues to make a place more livable for are not there, which leads to decay in infrastructure, schools and services?

In Minneapolis, I see young white couples living in homes in the

[Rizzo]

^Freddy C. if what you say about Minni is correct I think GR better take a page from their book then.

[metrogrkid]

Here's the deal. This forum is not meant to be one city vs. another. This is what this topic has become. If someone wants to start a discussion on the social ills of GRAND RAPIDS, that is fine. We'll discuss it, get heated about it, argue about it, etc. But people swooping in and saying "I moved away from that crappy city and now live in Utopia" does nothing but stir the pot. I am sick of the rhetoric.

I don't care about how much better Minneapolis or Charlotte is than Grand Rapids. I care about making Grand Rapids a better place and am sticking by my position that this topic has degraded into a semi-intelligent mudslinging contest.

Enough said.

Joe

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you, Joe.

Well put clarification (and I knew that the Emperor would find no purchase in you ).

And Fred: Take that to heart. PLEASE continue to comment WITH solutions for GR's improvement. To do as Joe just pointed out negates the true wisdom of everything you say after "Utopia-esque" comments conclude. Now you know the formula to become a true weapon of truth and an instrument for social change in GR. GO TO IT!!!

[6th Gen local]

Well, I appreciate the input of all. However, voting with ones feet is the free markets way of forcing competitors to do better. It is akin to the

[6th Gen local]

You know it

[metrogrkid]

there certainly is passion on this thread. i agree that gr is not perfect and has its deficienies.

"How can one strive to make Grand Rapids a better place, if there are people under the impression that there is nothing wrong with it the way it is? There are many people who are satisfied with Grand Rapids as it is. How can one convince them that GR can stand some improvement, without comparing and contrasting it with other places and revealing the consequences of it not being competitive with these other places?"

i think this is a severe issue for people that are passionate about GR. the passionate view the city as a C-student with A-potential while many citizens are merely happy with the way things are and dont want to put any effort towards change. i truly think that GR can become a better and more well rounded city, and i also think that GR is on the right track.

is it moving fast? no, not at all, but truly one can really mark the turn around in GR to the arena being built. going from that time frame the city has seen new developments which include in my opinion will be some of the most important foundations for the city's cultural and economic future. with WMU, Ferris, GVSU and the proposed MSU med-school downtown is bringing young students from around the region to dt's core. hopefully this mix of students will only help to foster different ideas, dreams, and beliefs and it takes time for ideas, dreams, and beliefs to change for the better and i think that gr is on that track.

not that gr is doing the best job possible, but there are people like freddy c that live in gr that are passionate about the city's ills and working to correct them and through those people GR will change, but it wont be overnight.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

DOES EVERYONE GET IT NOW?! Where have you been, jdkacz?

[snoogit]

Always negative about Grand Rapids, always blaming the  white Christian reformed population of Grand rapids as the root of all his problems.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well... that is a large chunk of the problem. Its the Voorhees-esque politicians of the area that keep the city from growing to its full potential, instead dragging the city into the cesspool of troglodytic ideas of management. There are people who want to change how things operate. There are politicians who push for change in the area.

Its going to take more than the city to help, its going to take monumental shifts in all levels of government for the area. State representatives, and congressional representatives all need to either change for the better, or be voted out of office.

[monsoon]

The topic has never really strayed, to be truthful. All that has happened is that analogies or parallels have been employed to buttress a point. For example I note the extreme case of what happened to the Detroit area, only as an example of what could transpire in the GR area, if the people are not careful. That is not straying off topic for anyone whose cognitions is not clouded by emotional bias or discomfort that subdued logical reasoning.

Race is simply the naked emperor that many of you want to avoid.  The topic has always been inclusive of race, as I am an African American who juxtaposed livings in one area vs living in another. As, I noted before, politics have a lot to do with many of the difference of Minneapolis and GR, one area being traditionally liberal while the other area being traditionally conservative. Political ideology can often be ones Trojan horse for manifesting racism via the politics of denial. Many people are against big government because they do not want to see their tax dollars as transfer payments to lazy, irresponsible, morally lacking and intellectually inferior people. As consequences of such assumption, the needed government revenues to make a place more livable for are not there, which leads to decay in infrastructure, schools and services?

In Minneapolis, I see young white couples living in homes in the