American Legion Memorial Stadium Renovation

[Spartan]

So you're saying there's a chance.

[Cadi40]

One thing that makes me very angry is our government leaders, This would've been a major development and really would've sparked growth on that side of town. One thing holding us back from being the fastest growing city in America is the government. They almost always approve the projects people hate and screw up the ones people love. 

[JoshuaDrown]

18 hours ago, SouthEndCLT811 said:

Charlotte/San Diego/Indy/St Louis all pretty much eliminated from being awarded a team

A decision on first two expansion teams comes in mid-December.  The remaining two to get the league to 28 is at a yet to be announced later date.

To be clear, Charlotte is by no means eliminated from MLS expansion, just with near certainty eliminated from the first round of expansion being announced in December 2017.

Nobody knows what will happen with the remaining two expansion slots to be announced December 2018 (or later)... it will be a different political environment for a number of the cities and their bids, and possible stadium proposals will look different. 

This is getting way into the soccer nerd weeds, I apologize, but weird things are afloat in U.S. Soccer. The USL, where our Independence play have been trademarking league names: USL Championship, USL League One, USL League Two. This is a copy of the  English Football Association setup, and “may be” the beginning of the framework for promotion/relegation in the U.S. Soccer system. In the not-so-distant future any club, in any city, in any of these leagues, might have the chance to move up to (or move down out of) the top flight level of American soccer based on their performance on the pitch, not based on bids put together by cities and hefty expansion fees.

Johnny Wakefield’s excellent local soccer blog, Soccer ‘n’ Sweet Tea, talks about this in more detail, if you are so inclined:

https://soccernsweettea.com/usl-goes-english-trademarks-championship-league-one-and-more-6527730d41ce

Whatever happens, we need our soccer played near Uptown. We have the perfect site and I’d love for the changes to Memorial to start as soon as possible. 

Edited November 4, 2017 by JoshuaDrown

[kermit]

A relegation / promotion structure would be fantastic and it would make a non-soccer guy like me actually pay attention to what was happening. 

Having said that, I would be awfully angry if I were a MLS owner (or a city that just made big public contributions to a stadium) -- this would add a new layer of risk to those investments which was not on the table prviously.  Does MLS have a significant TV contract? That might be the thing that would enable this switch to occur.

[go_vertical]

I think the big difference to this is that your average UK football fan is immensely more emotionally invested in their local club than probably a vast majority of US football fans are in their local team so I would imagine a drop to a lower tier would result in a minimal (if any) drop in revenue(across the pond at least). Also to note is that even the tier below EPL still draws some decent tv ratings. I don't have numbers on this but I'm fairly sure that is the case. 

I would love to see the same model adopted for US soccer although I think they should wait until soccer is more matured in a majority of cities. Like Kermit said, I think it would be more dramatic to see your team drop down and at least for a couple of years be the top dog in that league instead of being at the bottom of the top league.

Edited November 4, 2017 by go_vertical
Incomplete sentence.

[JoshuaDrown]

Perhaps I should put this in the MLS to Charlotte thread in the Coffeehouse, and happy to move the conversation over there...

On 11/4/2017 at 10:10 AM, kermit said:

A relegation / promotion structure would be fantastic and it would make a non-soccer guy like me actually pay attention to what was happening. 

Having said that, I would be awfully angry if I were a MLS owner (or a city that just made big public contributions to a stadium) -- this would add a new layer of risk to those investments which was not on the table prviously.  Does MLS have a significant TV contract? That might be the thing that would enable this switch to occur.

Correct, can you imagine the conversation between MLS and an owner that had just paid $150M plus stadium costs and all the infrastructure expenses for a new club... “Ahh, sorry. We’re changing the rules you signed up for. If you finish in the bottom three you’ll have to go play in USL.” 

This is pure speculation going on in the soccer community now, but it could look something like this:

1.  MLS Expansion capped at 28, after the 4 new clubs finally announced. This is the top tier of U.S. Soccer with protection for new clubs and no immediate pro/rel.

2.  Promotion/relegation introduced the USL Championship, USL League One, USL League Two. This is tested for a period up to 10 years. 

3.  At the end of the USL testing period, pro/rel is expanded to MLS, with only one or two clubs being promoted and relegated. MLS clubs that are relegated get a payout that is the difference between their USL Championship media revenue and their MLS media revenue. This gives them an advantage in USL and increases the likelihood that they only spend one year in relegation. 

4.  After a 5 to 10 year period of integration with the one or two club pro/rel between MLS and USL Championship, full three club promotion/relegation becomes the standard across the U.S. Soccer system. 

5.  Happily ever after. 

Edited November 5, 2017 by JoshuaDrown

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

We are eliminated. Marcus Smart is a total joke. The Levine of prospective MLS owners. 

[SouthEndCLT811]

A 10 year lease (2 renewal options to get it to 20) to the Independence and Hounds ownership group is on the agenda for tonight's county commissioner meeting.

Edited March 20, 2018 by SouthEndCLT811

[NYtoCLT]

I got an email that there was a community meeting with the Historic Landmarks Commission this morning on the proposed Memorial Stadium rehabilitation.   Did anyone here go?

[tozmervo]

http://www.thecharlottepost.com/news/2019/02/07/local-state/community-gathers-to-celebrate-plan-for-new-memorial-stadium/?fbclid=IwAR0cQTGLH_4bg3XQ3BpARF7pxPqY-kyVh0kM9FN73mTf_kd7MEHorE-JdeY

[Brendv7]

What happens to this stadium and the Independence if Tepper brings MLS to Charlotte and they are to play in BofA Stadium? Does it change anything?

[CLT2014]

6 minutes ago, Brendv7 said:

What happens to this stadium and the Independence if Tepper brings MLS to Charlotte and they are to play in BofA Stadium? Does it change anything?

The Independence could continue to play in the lower soccer leagues. Many cities have an MLS team and a "minor" league team that play in different venues. A renovated Memorial Stadium will also be used for events, graduations, high school football, lacrosse, etc..

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

4 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

The Independence could continue to play in the lower soccer leagues. Many cities have an MLS team and a "minor" league team that play in different venues. A renovated Memorial Stadium will also be used for events, graduations, high school football, lacrosse, etc..

Still think an MLS team there is a home run, but understand why Tepper would have no interest in doing it there.

[DavieNative]

22 hours ago, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

Still think an MLS team there is a home run, but understand why Tepper would have no interest in doing it there.

Agreed, its the perfect location for MLS in Charlotte. Uptown views, area for local businesses, and the extended Gold Line. That being said if Tepper has been to a Atlanta United game I'm sure he wants 75k crazy soccer fans jammed into a renovated BOA because that screams more money. A lot of the time that's what these owners are after. 

[kermit]

^ After watching Atlanta's success I honestly would not be surprised if a Charlotte MLS team regularly drew 70,000 fans a game (with reasonable ticket prices and decent promotion). Adding that many people to uptown 17+ times a year would be huge for retail and entertainment development. 

Memorial Stadium was going to be a nice venue, but playing in (a nearly full) BoA could be a development game changer.

Edited February 20, 2019 by kermit

[InSouthPark]

19 hours ago, kermit said:

^ After watching Atlanta's success I honestly would not be surprised if a Charlotte MLS team regularly drew 70,000 fans a game (with reasonable ticket prices and decent promotion). Adding that many people to uptown 17+ times a year would be huge for retail and entertainment development. 

Memorial Stadium was going to be a nice venue, but playing in (a nearly full) BoA could be a development game changer.

They don't regularly pull 70,000 actual attendance for Panthers games (actual butts in seats).  If they filled the lower bowl regularly (22k + 11k club seats), I would be surprised.   They might open  upper bowl to give the option of "cheap seats" but it can't imagine it being very full very often.  Charlotte is SUCH a fickle sports town. 

[kermit]

4 hours ago, InSouthPark said:

They don't regularly pull 70,000 actual attendance for Panthers games (actual butts in seats).  If they filled the lower bowl regularly (22k + 11k club seats), I would be surprised.   They might open  upper bowl to give the option of "cheap seats" but it can't imagine it being very full very often.  Charlotte is SUCH a fickle sports town. 

I am certainly no expert on MLS (or the NFL)  so I am really just guessing. But my guess was based on my intimate knowledge of Atlanta being an even more fickle sports town than Charlotte.  Atlanta United appears to have found a way to transcend that fickleness (for now) and it doesn't seem impossible that the same thing could happen here.   Other than MSA size our demographics are awfully similar. I also suspect that there are lots of people in Charlotte who would like to be attached to a local team but don't have the money to regularly go to Panthers or Hornets games. I'll bet 20 Bucks for a non nose-bleed seat at an MLS game would have lots of takers here. Given his deep pockets and low fixed costs (for the stadium) Tepper could price tickets aggressively to get that first batch of fans through the door.

Edited February 21, 2019 by kermit

[dylansukkert]

Part of the reason Atlanta has done so well is because they won right out of the gate. Making the playoffs in their first season and then winning a championship in their second season will work wonders for any expansion team.

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

1 hour ago, dylansukkert said:

Part of the reason Atlanta has done so well is because they won right out of the gate. Making the playoffs in their first season and then winning a championship in their second season will work wonders for any expansion team.

Thats part of the reason it has sustained, but going into the first season, without knowing how good the team would be, the team had 35k season ticket holders and have had 45k since. I think there is somthing about a transplant city having a team that everyone can pull for. Its not like transplants from NY who pull for the Giants during the NFL season. Everyone can support the city together for a MLS team.

Soccer is easy for people who aren't super knowledgeable sports fans to bond to the community through sports.

[Bruco72]

23 minutes ago, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

Thats part of the reason it has sustained, but going into the first season, without knowing how good the team would be, the team had 35k season ticket holders and have had 45k since. I think there is somthing about a transplant city having a team that everyone can pull for. Its not like transplants from NY who pull for the Giants during the NFL season. Everyone can support the city together for a MLS team.

Soccer is easy for people who aren't super knowledgeable sports fans to bond to the community through sports.

I think there is certainly some truth to that. I'll never be a Panthers fan, due to having grown up practically in the shadow of Lambeau Field, but I have no soccer allegiances. While I'm not a huge fan of the sport, I'd certainly take in a couple games a year. 

I will say that a packed 25,000- 30,000 seat stadium is a way better atmosphere than a 40% full NFL stadium though. But I certainly could understand Tepper loving the ability to sell out BoA stadium once in a while for big games, if the team is successful. 

[JoshuaDrown]

On 2/19/2019 at 3:50 PM, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

Still think an MLS team there is a home run, but understand why Tepper would have no interest in doing it there.

With all the MLS clubs having Academies now, there is an emerging pathway to the pros for young local players. A renovated Memorial Stadium could easily be used by the Charlotte Independence or a rebranded USL team that was either affiliated with the Tepper owned club or owned by them. All MLS teams can enter affiliation agreements with independently-owned USL teams, can enter larger hybrid affiliate partnerships with USL teams, or own and operate their own USL teams. The Charlotte Independence are currently affiliated with the Colorado Rapids.

In Memorial Stadium, a USL development team could have their own identity and culture, and not have to play in the cavernous BoA Stadium in front of only 5,000 to 10,000 fans. I would go to every MLS match, and if there was an affiliated team playing at Memorial then I would go to many (but not all), especially once the Academy was producing young players with exciting futures. 

Edited February 22, 2019 by JoshuaDrown

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

6 minutes ago, JoshuaDrown said:

g Academies now, there is an emerging pathway to the pros for young local players. A renovated Memorial Stadium could easily be used by the Charlotte Independence or a rebranded USL team that was either affiliated with the Tepper owned club or owned by them. All MLS teams can enter affiliation agreements with independently-owned USL teams, can enter larger hybrid affiliate partnerships with USL teams, or own and operate their own USL teams. The Charlotte Independence are currently affiliated with the Colorado Rapids.

In Memorial Stadium, a USL development team could have their own identity and culture, and not have to play in the cavernous BoA Stadium in front of only 5,000 to 10,000 fans. I would go to every MLS match, and if there was an affiliated team playing at Memorial then I would go to many (but not all)

True, I don't think Charlotte would be able to handle both teams tbh. I think Greenville or Charleston having the Charlotte USL affiliate would be pretty solid.

[JoshuaDrown]

38 minutes ago, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

True, I don't think Charlotte would be able to handle both teams tbh. I think Greenville or Charleston having the Charlotte USL affiliate would be pretty solid.

In that scenario, it wouldn't be about sustaining the USL team from an attendance perspective, it would be about developing players. The MLS clubs that are taking their Academies most seriously have "B" teams, 8 of which keep them in the same city (as of 2018, perhaps a couple more in 2019) to maximize coaching and strategy, and to give the young players opportunity to see how the pros train. They usually go the rather conventional Atlanta United 2, LA Galaxy II, Portland Timbers 2 naming convention. Sporting KC play in Kansas City, Kansas, while their USL team, the Swope Park Rangers, played in Kansas City , MO (until last year, but I digress), but they train at the same facilities.

If Tepper was going to be serious about competing in MLS, and from what we know of the man he will be, then there will most likely be a USL team in Charlotte in addition to an MLS team... the question would be where the USL team plays, and whether or not the Charlotte Independence stay in existence with an affiliation or purchase by Tepper.

Edited February 22, 2019 by JoshuaDrown

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

27 minutes ago, JoshuaDrown said:

In that scenario, it wouldn't be about sustaining the USL team from an attendance perspective, it would be about developing players. The MLS clubs that are taking their Academies most seriously have "B" teams, 8 of which keep them in the same city (as of 2018, perhaps a couple more in 2019) to maximize coaching and strategy, and to give the young players opportunity to see how the pros train. They usually go the rather conventional Atlanta United 2, LA Galaxy II, Portland Timbers 2 naming convention. Sporting KC play in Kansas City, Kansas, while their USL team, the Swope Park Rangers, played in Kansas City , MO (until last year, but I digress), but they train at the same facilities.

If Tepper was going to be serious about competing in MLS, and from what we know of the man he will be, then there will most likely be a USL team in Charlotte in addition to an MLS team... the question would be where the USL team plays, and whether or not the Charlotte Independence stay in existence with an affiliation or purchase by Tepper.

I don't think being in Greenville would impact the team much, or Columbia if the teams facilities are on I-77. ATLUTD 2 have moved from Gwinnett to Kennesaw to have a soccer specific stadium, the distance to drive from Gwinnett, isn't too dissimilar to GSP/CLT. I think its important to expand the interest of the CLT team in SC too, and that has been a big focus Tepper has had.

At the end of the day NBA G league is right up the road in Greensboro, and I think that having GSP or Columbia make more sense if we get a MLS team. I really think the city and county dropped the ball on this one and i hope they aren't rewarded for their incompetence.

[NYtoCLT]

2 hours ago, JoshuaDrown said:

In that scenario, it wouldn't be about sustaining the USL team from an attendance perspective, it would be about developing players. The MLS clubs that are taking their Academies most seriously have "B" teams, 8 of which keep them in the same city (as of 2018, perhaps a couple more in 2019) to maximize coaching and strategy, and to give the young players opportunity to see how the pros train. They usually go the rather conventional Atlanta United 2, LA Galaxy II, Portland Timbers 2 naming convention. Sporting KC play in Kansas City, Kansas, while their USL team, the Swope Park Rangers, played in Kansas City , MO (until last year, but I digress), but they train at the same facilities.

If Tepper was going to be serious about competing in MLS, and from what we know of the man he will be, then there will most likely be a USL team in Charlotte in addition to an MLS team... the question would be where the USL team plays, and whether or not the Charlotte Independence stay in existence with an affiliation or purchase by Tepper.

This is spot on.  Having a B team competing in the USL gives your young development players the ability to play competitive games proving their ability to get the call up to the MLS team.  If Tepper does get an MLS team he will almost certainly have them play at BOA, but if he does work out an affiliation with the Independence (or outright purchases them) they could be incredibly valuable for the MLS team as a development vehicle.  It is the model most of Europe uses (they actually have sub teams by age ranges) and the top MLS teams have all started to mimic.  

Given Tom Glick's soccer experience I would be surprised if Tepper doesn't use this strategy as well.  Having a revised independence stadium for the B team could actually work perfectly since it would probably get better attendance that the Independence currently do (Matthews is part of that) but obviously not enough for BOA.