Skyscrapers and Nashville

[Paramount747]

My apologies for my impatience with the delay of the Sobro, or proposals like 505CST and Sheet Music. I had a discussion with WW last night, and we agreed many of our peer cities are not having really tall buildings constructed either.

 

I am certainly not going to make comparisons with Portland, OR as it is a different model, nor comparisons to Atlanta, Dallas, and Houston. I think it is fair to compare to Oklahoma City, Austin, Charlotte, and Mobile, AL.

 

Now Mobile, AL made a bold and daring move to build the 750 foot RSA Battlehouse Tower, but in reality 300+ feet is spire. Next, Oklahoma City has the 900+ foot Devon Energy, but frankly the city would have been better served with three 30 story towers instead. The Devon Tower does look way out of place, but at least they have it.

 

That leaves Charlotte and Austin that have towers above 700 feet. In Austin's case, their tallest is actually 683 but we can count it as 700 just like WW counts the 5/3 Bank Tower at 500 although its actually 490. In any case Austin has one 700 foot skyscraper in a city of 842,000 and an MSA of 1.8 Million. Conversely, Charlotte has 2 above 700 feet in a city of 842,000 and an MSA of 2 million. BOA and Duke Energy.

 

If you look at our true peer cities like Memphis, Louisville, Little Rock, Raleigh Durham, Birmigham, St. Louis, Kansas City Nashville is either ahead or not far behind.

 

The demographers on this site can better determine who our real peer cities are, but most cities in the US do not have towers above 700 feet, and many not above 500 feet.

 

Now, I am a skyscraper enthusiast because of a few factors. Not just for the "Wow" factor, but for the appreciation of the architecture and the engineering. (I will say buildings much above 1000 feet can be a bit ridiculous. I want no part of the Burj Kalifa or the 3200 foot tower going up in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.)

 

I would like to see Nashville get some real cutting edge designs in the mid-rise realm.

 

Discuss if you wish.

 

 

[NikOnder]

I would add Baltimore to comparable cities, at least in terms of population. It is also a city that is not breaking any records in height, although they do have a few things right in terms of transportation, infastructure, density, urban communities, etc....things that are still new territory to Nashville. 

That said, not much of significant height has been constructed in Baltimore in a long time (although I do hear that there are some big new developments coming in the Inner Harbor). So, I would agree that this little boom of ours is going pretty well, all things considered.

I am in a position where I may be moving to Baltimore soon for work and I am going to really miss being in the middle of this exciting time of growth in Nashville.

[smeagolsfree]

If it is going to happen, then this is our turn John. I have seen this in two other thread and said it to you myself....BE patient..great things are worth waiting on.

 

I would rather have a dozen towers at 20 stories than one at 60.

[CenterHill]

For me, it's less about the height, and more about good design - both on top and at street level.     I'll take 20-40 stories all day, but I'd like to see some variety added to our skyline to accompany our many flattops.   It's been discussed many times on this board and I understand the economics associated with non-rentable spires and domes, but I'd like to see at least one developer do something bold.   

 

At street level, every facade that addresses a city street should be solid commercial/retail.   Our zoning codes still allow blank walls, which equals dead streets, and that should be unacceptable to us.    Street activation feeds on itself and brings more growth and activation, which feeds density.       Baltimore mentioned above has amazing design at the street level and incredible density to go along.   One feeds the other.     

[fieldmarshaldj]

Now, I am a skyscraper enthusiast because of a few factors. Not just for the "Wow" factor, but for the appreciation of the architecture and the engineering. (I will say buildings much above 1000 feet can be a bit ridiculous. I want no part of the Burj Kalifa or the 3200 foot tower going up in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.)

Curiously, the proposed tower for Saudi Arabia is essentially a shorter version of Frank Lloyd Wright's Mile High Tower. From a technical and aesthetic point of view, I'd like to see it rise.

[UTgrad09]

If it is going to happen, then this is our turn John. I have seen this in two other thread and said it to you myself....BE patient..great things are worth waiting on.

 

I would rather have a dozen towers at 20 stories than one at 60.

 

I would definitely prefer quantity, but I would like to see a range. 

 

There are some areas where I would like to see 5-10 story infill. Others with modest 15-20 story buildings. But I would like to see more in the 30-40 and maybe 50 range. Two 700 ft towers in Nashville would radically change the look of the skyline. Maybe not in the same way that a dozen 20 story towers would, but if we are talking about divvying up 240 stories worth of towers, I would like to see two at 40, two at 30, and 5 at 20. I'd easily take 9 towers in that breakdown over 12 at 20 stories.

[Paramount747]

I thought 2 decades ago that we would have a tower taller than the ATT Tower by now, and it seems if Tony does not do it with 505CST or Signature, no-one will. There is obviously many economic factors involved, but I am afraid it could be Mark Bloom in The Gulch with the Four Seasons which I would take, but in the CBD it just seems it may not happen for a long time.

 

At least The Sobro has some great architectural features and will be 33 stories and 360 feet. I was really hoping Tony would push 400 since The Viridian is 378. At least we are not Memphis by having the tallest tower 7-9 miles out of downtown in East Memphis! I posted a pic a while back about how far out Clark Tower was from downtown. That would be like Wessex Towers in Bellevue being the tallest tower at 9 miles from downtown!

[arkitekte]

^^^There's a photo taken that actually had Clark Tower, White Station Tower, and the Hilton in it with downtown in the distance, but I can't find it. 

 

This one will do though...taken from Clark Tower.

[satalac]

[Dale]

Hey, at least you guys have a lower bar to cross to get a new tallest. We here in Charlotte would have to go damn near 900'.

[MidTenn1]

At least we are not Memphis by having the tallest tower 7-9 miles out of downtown in East Memphis! I posted a pic a while back about how far out Clark Tower was from downtown. That would be like Wessex Towers in Bellevue being the tallest tower at 9 miles from downtown!

 Actually the Clark Tower is tied for the second tallest in Memphis, but point taken.

[MidTenn1]

Hey, at least you guys have a lower bar to cross to get a new tallest. We here in Charlotte would have to go damn near 900'.

 

 A new tallest would be exciting to watch develop and rise, but the mid-rise boom is also exciting in that it spreads the urban fabric far beyond downtown into mid-town and the Gulch.

 

[Paramount747]

I always wondered what the thinking was. Did they intend East Memphis to be a separate city?  The UP tower next to it is around 260-300 feet. It appeared that it was designed to be another city. Also notice in the picture how far the Pyramid is away from the rest of the city.

[Paramount747]

 A new tallest would be exciting to watch develop and rise, but the mid-rise boom is also exciting in that it spreads the urban fabric far beyond downtown into mid-town and the Gulch.

 

It's hard to choose! Charlotte does seem to have  a lot more green space. Love those towers! From that perspective, it is almost as if Nashville does not have a skyline! Even Tulsa OK has two buildings in the 625-675 range!

[fieldmarshaldj]

^That's because the Pyramid is on the north side of I-40 while the CBD is south of it.

[Dale]

I believe you can have both. And yes, Charlotte does have a LOT of greenspace. At least lots and lots of trees.

[arkitekte]

I always wondered what the thinking was. Did they intend East Memphis to be a separate city?  The UP tower next to it is around 260-300 feet. It appeared that it was designed to be another city. Also notice in the picture how far the Pyramid is away from the rest of the city.

 

UP Tower is actually 100 N. Main, you're thinking of IBank. 

 

There's a big disconect between downtown/ medical district and Midtown and East Memphis. There's of probably three times as much office space on Poplar between Perkins and Kirby as there is downtown. Just on Poplar you have International Paper's HQ which they're currently building a third tower (think three SunTrust towers in Nashville), Regions' building which is 15 or so floors, SunTrust's old building which is 10 or 12 floors, White Station Tower, Clark Tower, St. Francis Hospital which is about the same height as Regions, the Hilton hotel, etc. They're not all clumped together, but if they were the skyline would be quite similar to downtown's. 

 

Most of the people with the money moved out east in the 70's so a lot of companies followed. 

 

UP Tower is actually 100 N. Main, you're thinking of IBank. 

[NashRugger]

Energy and big banks, the big tower builders, obviously. 

[captainwjm]

I always wondered what the thinking was. Did they intend East Memphis to be a separate city?  The UP tower next to it is around 260-300 feet. It appeared that it was designed to be another city. Also notice in the picture how far the Pyramid is away from the rest of the city.

It couldn't be about race; because it's never about race.

[MidTenn1]

The development of East Memphis was economically based. Once the interstate was built and easier access to that area was available, developers recognized the need for office stock in a place located closer to the center of the metro area. Downtown Memphis was on the river with little population or opportunity for growth to the west and it was a good 15 to 20 miles from the growing eastern suburbs and was thus being deserted by larger employers mostly because of inaccessibility. The Poplar Avenue/Germantown area is much more convenient to the entire Metro area.

[arkitekte]

It couldn't be about race; because it's never about race.

 

It's nice outside, but don't go fishing. 

[satalac]

Energy and big banks, the big tower builders, obviously. 

Yup. Being that healthcare and music are our big businesses in Nashville, those typically prefer campus style buildings. Just think of the downtown we could have if the business parks in Cool Springs didn't exist.....

[UTgrad09]

Yup. Being that healthcare and music are our big businesses in Nashville, those typically prefer campus style buildings. Just think of the downtown we could have if the business parks in Cool Springs didn't exist.....

 

I think Cool Springs has definitely had an effect on downtown, but I wouldn't assume that all of that office space would be downtown instead. There's a reason why a lot of those companies chose suburban office parks, and (with the companies that relocated here) there's no guarantee that those companies would even be here if office parks like Cool Springs didn't exist.

 

But -- I do think we would have at least a handful of large office towers without it.

[bigeasy]

You also have lots of offices off of Elm Hill/Briley that could of added to downtown density. Bridgestone's bulding would look nice downtown. I am not sure how many floors it is, but it has to be around 20 or so? Then you have Allstate and Kroger both with about 6 story buildings in office parks. Those easily could be 10-15 stories if were slimmer and downtown.

[satalac]

I think Cool Springs has definitely had an effect on downtown, but I wouldn't assume that all of that office space would be downtown instead. There's a reason why a lot of those companies chose suburban office parks, and (with the companies that relocated here) there's no guarantee that those companies would even be here if office parks like Cool Springs didn't exist.

 

But -- I do think we would have at least a handful of large office towers without it.

Oh I agree, those businesses prefer the campus style layout. I think a part of it as well is that the housing and amenities of Cool Springs was more attractive than Downtown when those office parks were starting up. The CBD is still playing catch up to Cool Springs in that aspect.