TAXI,UBER,TRANSPORTATION DEBATE

[producer2]

..yes why allow residents and visitors to purchase the goods and services they want (Lyft, Uber, pedi-cabs, cheap car service for hire...) when the government can collude with the lobbyists of trade groups (taxis, limo, bus charters...) and allow them to overcharge customers while NOT delivering services they desire (like hailing a cab)...

 

also cool crane, I am looking forward to ACME and the redevelopment all along this corridor and the expanded recreational activities the waterfront will bring to downtown visitors and residents.... there back on topic ; )

Really....let's put your kids on one of these "unregulated" conveyances and see how you feel if something terrible happens (and It does) and then you find out no one ever checked to see if the driver had any history that would be cause for concern and then to top it off they have NO insurance so you get the medical costs associated with said tragedy and so on. Would you put your family on a plane or any other public conveyance without some knowledge of any kind about who is operating the machinery and can they protect my kids! I think not. Please quit being so political with all of your thoughts, this is not about that it is about common sense. NO ONE CARES what they charge the end user, they only care that they follow guidelines set up for your safety. Geesh...

[dmillsphoto]

Really....let's put your kids on one of these "unregulated" conveyances and see how you feel if something terrible happens (and It does) and then you find out no one ever checked to see if the driver had any history that would be cause for concern and then to top it off they have NO insurance so you get the medical costs associated with said tragedy and so on. Would you put your family on a plane or any other public conveyance without some knowledge of any kind about who is operating the machinery and can they protect my kids! I think not. Please quit being so political with all of your thoughts, this is not about that it is about common sense. NO ONE CARES what they charge the end user, they only care that they follow guidelines set up for your safety. Geesh...

 

P2 - Urban and Lyft do background checks. They check with your insurance and are beginning to issue their own (Here & Here). So, I hate to break it to you, but you're statements are incorrect.

[producer2]

P2 - Urban and Lyft do background checks. They check with your insurance and are beginning to issue their own (Here & Here). So, I hate to break it to you, but you're statements are incorrect.

I am aware that they do checks and I am also aware that some of their procedures will be adopted here locally but there is still the issue of insurance and how much do they really cover.  Lyft and Uber are not the issue here and we are working with them to get it all in place. the issue and the original post was about the golf cart "rides" that are being provided around downtown and those types of company that have no regulation but can cause just as much damage. I think f you will do some due diligence on this subject, including Uber and Lyft, you will find that there are many issues nationwide that municipalities are trying to rectify. No one is trying to get rid of them, quite the opposite is true. they just need to follow simple established guidelines for  companies that are "for hire" transportation. I use Uber so I certainly am not against them, but this notion that all things regulatory are stifling is nonsense.

[Guest]

Ron feel free to move this to the coffee house... but please move P2's response as well.... Thanks

In response, you are the one who brought up Uber and Lyft.... (see your post below).

 

My kids are doing well...thanks for your concern. They are able to make correct choices for themselves (at 11,14), without any legislator or bureaucrat overlord... you see I teach them to use good judgement and common sense. I have taught them NOT to depend on the government and definitely Not to believe everything they see/hear. They have been taught to think critically and respond accordingly. 

 

I do not need a lecture on what is and what is not politics. This subject involves politics...most things do, including most things related to the built environment... if you are so naive (and I do not believe that you are) to believe that politics plays no role in the taxi commission, the setting of rates, the quantity restriction on # of cabs, the restriction on hailing a cab, then I agree we have nothing to discuss.

 

My motto - Power to the People and not to Corporations and Government (hard to tell the difference today)

__________________________________________________________________________

 

Well this statement of yours (below) is demonstrably false (but the matter got measurable better thanks to the swell of public support for Lyft and Uber... )

http://nashvillecitypaper.com/content/city-news/federal-jury-upholds-metros-minimum-fares-hire-transportation

 

 

 

P2 post_
They along with Uber, Lyft, the pedi-shaws, etc. are going to be in for a surprise in the very near future. You can't circumvent the law while others (register cabs, etc.) have to abide by certain restrictions, and get away with it for very long. If they comply then all will be well....

 

http://archive.tennessean.com/article/20140108/NEWS0202/301080092/Minimum-fee-hire-limo-sedan-Nashville-slashed-9-75
 

 

 

This is the old METRO policy setting a minimum $45 fare ---

"Metro Nashville’s minimum fares for non-taxi “for-hire” transportation companies were upheld by an eight-member jury on Friday after a three-day trial.

Metro Livery, a black-car, for-hire vehicle company, sued the Metro Transportation Licensing Commission in 2011 over the $45 minimum fare. The plaintiffs claimed Metro was practicing economic protectionism for cab companies and high-end limo companies.

But on Friday, a federal jury in Nashville ruled in Metro’s favor after deliberating for nearly three hours. U.S. District Court Judge Kevin Sharp complimented both sides’ legal representation after the decision. The Institute for Justice, a libertarian public interest law firm in Seattle, represented the Nashville limo companies."

 

http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/serials/files/regulation/2013/6/regulation-v36n2-3.pdf
 

 

This is the newly approved minimum fares --- (again thanks to competition)
 

The Metro Council voted Tuesday to cut the minimum fee for hiring a limousine or sedan in Nashville by nearly 80 percent, clearing the way for another app-based car service to enter the market later this week.

The council voted 29-3 for a proposal to reduce the current, $45 minimum fee tohire livery services to $9.75, or three times the minimum cab fare. Council members approved the $45 fee in 2010 as a way to distinguish between taxis and livery vehicles, but some later came to think they had set the minimum too high.

The change also will allow San Francisco-based Uber, an app-based service that's in about 30 cities across the United States and 70 around the world, to come to Tennessee for the first time. Uber customers use a smartphone app that stores their credit card information to order a ride. When they do, the GPS-powered software contacts drivers of private cars in the area and gives them a chance to make the trip.

Uber plans to start operating its top-level Uber Black service in Nashville as soon as Mayor Karl Dean signs the bill into law, spokeswoman Nairi Hourdajian said.

 

 

 

NO ONE CARES what they charge the end user, they only care that they follow guidelines set up for your safety. Geesh...

 

 

 

Really....let's put your kids on one of these "unregulated" conveyances and see how you feel if something terrible happens (and It does) and then you find out no one ever checked to see if the driver had any history that would be cause for concern and then to top it off they have NO insurance so you get the medical costs associated with said tragedy and so on. Would you put your family on a plane or any other public conveyance without some knowledge of any kind about who is operating the machinery and can they protect my kids! I think not. Please quit being so political with all of your thoughts, this is not about that it is about common sense. NO ONE CARES what they charge the end user, they only care that they follow guidelines set up for your safety. Geesh...

 

 

[smeagolsfree]

Moved from CBD thread.

[producer2]

They are not charging. The drivers are letting people decide how much to tip them. Yes Metro is going to look at it, but at this point it is totally legal.

 

What about the guys on bikes that are doing the same thing. I don't have a problem with it at all. As for Uber, Lyft and the others. Maybe some regulations are coming, however, it's not like these guys a peddling all the way to the airport. These services are in Chicago and other cities and doing well. The taxi services need to stop being cry babies and drop their rates. For that matter, they all should have an English test and a knowledge test of the city like they do in London. I have no sympathy for them at all, after hearing stories of their services form airline crews. They could not even get them to the correct hotel.

 

Free Market baby.

I appreciate all the sentiments but they are charging. I have been solicited on several occasions and told what the charge would be to take me from point A to point B. And everyone continues to miss the point. Unless there are some regulations that protect you, the citizen, you are potentially being put into a dangerous position that can only be a lose, lose for you. No one is against the free market but should developers be allowed to put up skyscrapers without someone making sure they won't fall down? How is this any different?

[grilled_cheese]

I am for whatever the ridesharing companies want to do.  Cab companies can get lost.  They haven't changed their business model in Nashville.....ever?  Some of them still get pissed if I want to pay with card. 

 

If anyone ever brings up vehicle inspection I will take my chances 100% of the time with an Uber/Lyft driver and their 2005 and newer vehicles any day over some rattling and vibrating 1996 Chrysler mini van.  About a year ago I was riding in a cab on Ellington Pkwy and the front lights went out!  The cabbie stopped, hopped out and banged on the hood a couple times until they came back on.

 

The drivers?  Uber/Lyft >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cabbies.  This is not even close.

 

The insurance issue, Uber offers a million on top of whatever the driver has.  Let the market sort it out.

NEXT

[Nathan_in_DC]

I take Uber a LOT in DC and Philadelphia. Never once have I had an experience that wasn't great.  Cabbies are more often than not rather rude, often won't pick you up without first asking where you're going (if it's too far or not far enough, they won't pick you up), and you're subjected to the back seat of a 10 year old former police cruiser that is held together with the vomit crusting on the floor. Sorry for the rather vivid imagery, but it's not far off from my experience in most cabs around the country.

 

Uber, however, gets you drivers who have either very nice towncars or SUVs in the case of their black car and SUV service, it offers quick pickup at any location without having to translate directions to some poorly educated cab dispatcher, and, best of all, ends up being a great deal because you and 2-4 of your friends can easily and quickly split fares on multiple accounts.  In the end, I often end up paying less for a towncar service than I do for a flagged taxi, simply because it's easier for everyone to pitch in on fares!  UberX is pretty awesome every time I've used it, too.  Again, new, clean cars with friendly drivers who seem rather anxious to please.  After all, you have to rate the experience after each ride in order to close out.  So, if someone starts getting bad reviews, they'll start losing fares.

 

Anyway, doesn't technically Nashville still ban taxicabs from cruising for fares?

[Guest]

yes... all cabs must be dispatched or called via doorman...although you can walk up and hire a cab parked at a taxi stand.

[BnaBreaker]

Wait...you can't hail a cab on the street in Nashville?!

[Hey_Hey]

Wait...you can't hail a cab on the street in Nashville?!

I don't know whether it is legal or not, but it definitely happens all the time.

[grilled_cheese]

The only thing that cabs have going for them over the ride share apps is the ability to manually hail them.

[Guest]

You guys are correct, I guess I just never hailed one because I walk to the hotel cab stand... good to know.

[nashvillwill]

I honestly had no idea they couldn't cruise for fares. No wonder it's so damn hard to hail one.

[Nathan_in_DC]

Wait...you can't hail a cab on the street in Nashville?!

 

Nope, technically not.  Hopefully the arrival of Uber and other competing services to traditional taxicabs will force the commission to update their laws, otherwise drivers who attempt to follow the law will see a massive hit.

[BnaBreaker]

Wow, that's stupid as hell.  What's the reasoning behind it?  Sometimes, it almost seems as though prior to ten or so years ago, Nashville was going out of it's way to make it absolutely as difficult as humanly possible on people who didn't own cars. 

[Nathan_in_DC]

Wow, that's stupid as hell.  What's the reasoning behind it?  Sometimes, it almost seems as though prior to ten or so years ago, Nashville was going out of it's way to make it absolutely as difficult as humanly possible on people who didn't own cars. 

 

Actually, further research seems to indicate that rather draconian rule was done away with.  Although, in 2012, Metro had a report done on service that stated that the $45 fare for black car service was "appropriate" and properly protected taxis.  This sort of interference in a legitimate marketplace through the fixing of prices is absurd, and Metro should be ashamed.  You can submit safety regulations all day long, but to make it prohibitively expensive for private black car or other non-traditional taxi service to operate is simply incomprehensible, especially when it's done in such a manner that is unabashed in its intention of preventing competition.

 

EDIT: Here's a link to the study: http://www.taxi-library.org/nashville-2012.pdf

 

Here's another from Cato about Nashville's wonderful setup: http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/serials/files/regulation/2013/6/regulation-v36n2-3.pdf

[grilled_cheese]

The $45 dollar was abolished last year thanks to Uber.

 

I was about to say, in regards to cab hailing, that I've never had an issue hailing a cab from the sidewalk on Broadway, 2nd, West End, Elliston, etc.

[Nathan_in_DC]

The $45 dollar was abolished last year thanks to Uber.

 

I was about to say, in regards to cab hailing, that I've never had an issue hailing a cab from the sidewalk on Broadway, 2nd, West End, Elliston, etc.

 

Yeah, I realize it was done away with, though I see now I didn't make that clear. I just find that study extremely revealing of the anti-competitive attitude the Commission (and some of the city leadership in general) take.  It isn't hard to extrapolate from there that similar mindsets and problems are part of the reason the transit system is so crappy.

[producer2]

Random reads, I have tons of them but just picked out a few. I think the take away is that there are issues all over the U.S (and the world) that many are just trying to iron out so everyone is on a level playing field. Either regulate the new ones more or de-regulate the current ones. It's just not fair to allow advantages to one group over another based upon current laws that are obviously trying to be circumvented. I think you will see taxi firms going to a more app based service in the near future.

 

http://pando.com/2014/04/24/uberx-allegedly-hired-a-convicted-felon-with-a-20-year-rap-sheet-so-much-for-those-improved-background-checks/

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2014/04/critics_of_uber_and_lyft_raise_questions_about_insurance_and_safety.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/16/lyft-lobbying_n_5161322.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

http://www.nola.com/business/index.ssf/2014/04/new_orleans_isnt_alone_in_its.html

http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20140418/APA/304189669

http://www.newson6.com/story/25198189/some-oklahomans-concerned-with-safety-of-tech-taxi-companies

http://technical.ly/baltimore/2014/04/09/bill-exempt-uber-lyft-common-carrier-status-fails-pass/

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2014/04/08/City_suing_app-based_livery_service.html

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-03-14/news/chi-city-council-subpoenas-insurance-records-from-rideshare-firms-20140313_1_ride-share-lyft-and-sidecar-taxi-drivers

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/print-edition/2014/01/24/ride-apps-uber-lyft-sidecar-crash.html

[grilled_cheese]

 I think you will see taxi firms going to a more app based service in the near future.

This is the equivalent of ATT saying Nashville might get their GigaBit network, only AFTER Google Fiber expressed interest in us.

 

I am all for the rideshare companies doing whatever they can because the Taxi Companies had a strangle hold on the entire city since forever and chose to do nothing but suck the entire time.

 

I like how all of the articles you linked are anti-rideshare.  Funny how the group with worse product is sueing and using lobbyists to keep their business model afloat.

[producer2]

This is the equivalent of ATT saying Nashville might get their GigaBit network, only AFTER Google Fiber expressed interest in us.

 

I am all for the rideshare companies doing whatever they can because the Taxi Companies had a strangle hold on the entire city since forever and chose to do nothing but suck the entire time.

 

I like how all of the articles you linked are anti-rideshare.  Funny how the group with worse product is sueing and using lobbyists to keep their business model afloat.

Actually they are not all anti and I just linked the ones I had at random. You should really come to a Transportation Licensing Commission meeting and see for yourself what goes on and who is applying to be drivers. Trust me it would scare you. You would be very happy to see that someone is actually saying no to some of these folks. No one on the commission makes a dime for either being on the commission or from any taxi companies and in fact I am pretty confident all of us are hopeful that this new method of transportation for hire can be successful because the real problem is lack of cars not that taxi's suck. The current administration is a huge proponent of Uber so I am not sure why all the backlash on the subject. I think we all have good intentions and just want to make sure that people using these services are kept safe and have the best possible experience. Despite the ramblings of some extremists on this board, in this instance, the government is not your enemy. In fact the government was the one who got the Uber ball rolling...

[grilled_cheese]

Are you talking about all drivers that apply for licenses, regardless of who they drive for?

 

Why was there a lack of cars?

[producer2]

currently only taxi, limo, and wrecker drivers are required to apply with the City for permits. TBI background checks are done and each applicant is interviewed. In 3 years, I have never seen a clean background check. Some are worse than others. Your question about the number of cars is more complicated. In the past couple of years we have doubled the number of permits and created several new companies including driver owned companies. the problem is still going to be leveling the playing field. I am supportive of keeping the public safety issues similar for all but opening up things like fares, etc. to open market pricing. my fear is when surge pricing happens, the first ones to get blamed will be the regulators.

[grilled_cheese]

Uber expanding coverage zone to add Franklin

 

http://blog.uber.com/FranklinTN?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=were-going-south-announcing-full-uber-service-in-franklin-tn