New Mathews Bridge

[jacksonvillian]

Full Story on link below.

http://firstcoastnews.com/news/topstories/...x?storyid=37804

[Viper]

Great news. I have many questions but I'm sure they'll be answered at the public hearing.

[RiversideGator]

They need to build it HIGH to allow bigger ships underneath, i.e. cruise ships. Also, a good classic design like the Brooklyn Bridge or something would be much appreciated. Of course, we will probably end up with something more modern. We will see.

[Viper]

175 foot minimum to equal the clearance of the Dames Point. Then put a Marina/Dock/Aquarium between the New Matthews and Hart Bridges.

[bobliocatt]

Imo, this is bittersweet news. The old truss bridges are Jacksonville icons that give the city a unique flavor. Hopefully the new design will come out better than the Acosta and Fuller Warren replacements.

[RiversideGator]

Hopefully the new design will come out better than the Acosta and Fuller Warren replacements.

Agreed

[Metro242]

Thank goodness, I don't know why but I have never felt so unsafe on a bridge in my life. When I'm on top and traffic stops, I get faint and anticipate my looming plunge into the St. John's. I'm sure it's structurally sound, but damn does it make me uneasy.

[bobliocatt]

A rendering of one proposed bridge from the FTU.

[asonj23]

WOW!!!!!!

I would love to see something like that downtown! I love the cable stayed bridges, they demand respect.

[jjoshjl]

I am probably a very large minority, but I actually like the design of the bridge. It may need some work done to it to make drivers feel mroe safe, but all and all, it realy is a nice brifge. As lake said, its a unique quality i dont think many other florida cities have. I know "its just a bridge" but its more than that. The best way I can describe it is like giving Jax the feeling of I am here, Dont like it tough, like it, whatever.

Anyway,

Just My humble opinion...

(BTW, I really HOPE it is not the rendering that lake put up. It all goes back to style. another oportunity for JAX to show her stuff. I personally realy liek the Brooklyn Bridge Idea. Perfect for JAX if you ask me...)

[crazy cuban]

does jacksonville really need some facsimile of the brooklyn bridge? don't we have enough of an identity crisis, i mean we have a library from NYC and almost a DC courthouse. everything in the world has an end and that includes bridges and people, and i think that the matthews has reached its. the thought of building a new bridge high enough to allow the new mega-cruise ships to pass underneath is a waste, what these ships want is a port with no bridges, ie miami and port everglades. from the sounds of it, the most that is going to happen at the moment is the changing of the grating>> the new bridge is pretty far down the road, that we may have flying cars by then???

if by chance we do get a new bridge, it should be something that the city could be proud of, modern or old school>>> let's not put up another "FDOT highway over water special"...

[bobliocatt]

^very true. Btw, I have a feeling that cable bridge rendering was just photoshopped into that aerial. For some reason, it looks like that exact design has already been constructed several times in other places.

......never mind, this baby looks just like the new one going up in Charleston, SC, in this picture taken by monsoon.

[asonj23]

Hmmm, I'm not sure I like the bridge to much anymore. It is a cool bridge, but if it is copied all over the country it should have no place here.

We DEFINITELY need something unique.

[120North]

The diamond tower design has been used several times in the past. It is a kind of trademark of a specific engineering company (JMI I think, or it might be Figg). I has some real advantages to having two separate towers. The Dames Point bridge requires the huge concrete "bow tie" to help with the stability of the two cable stay towers. With the diamond the towers are braced off of each other, eliminating that heavy tie.

The bridge will meet the clearance of the Dames Point. I would think that is almost assured by current USCG permit requirements. With a project of this size, FDOT is required as a condition of Federal Funding to have at least two separate biddable alternatives. You typically see a concrete option and a steel option. Sometimes you see two different concrete options, or two different steel options. You will usually see different foundation options as well (piles vs. drilled shaft. conventional prestressed piles vs. cylinder piles). A project this big will have substantial public involvement and will be very political. With the span requirements, you will not see anything akin to the New Fuller Warren. The span is really even out of the realm of a Cast in place concrete box option like the Acosta. I would expect a cable stayed bridge of some type.

Love it or hate it, the Matthews bridge is a trademark of Jacksonville. It shows up on all of the Jaguars telecasts. As a city, we are being given the opportunity to construct a bridge that will be a landmark of our city. This thing needs to be remarkable and unique. It does not need to mimick anything else, it needs to be groundbreaking. I think that the PTB at FDOT know this. All I can say is, the community needs to be invovled. They need to go to the public meetings. Contrary to what most may think, engineers value public input on projects of this magnitude.

[RiversideGator]

I hate those concrete monstrosities that are inflicted on us by today's engineers. What ever happened to the idea that a bridge, like a building, could be a work of art also?? As to Cuban's love for the modern, I am sure that the fact that the proposed building is already in 4-6 other places will not prevent him from advocating it. The bottom line is the proposal you favor is based on your attitudes towards architecture in general. In advocating a handsome, landmark bridge for Jax, I did not mean to say we should completely copy the Brooklyn Bridge or the Golden Gate or the Sidney bridge or whatever. I meant that we should build a bridge of great quality and beauty which has timeless architecture, not a mere facsimile of another bridge.

[crazy cuban]

it's not a matter of it being modern, its a matter of it being new. yeah, i've seen that diamond tower cable stay bridge over and over>>> charleston and Boston>>> and even the Calatrava bridges all look the same after a while. i just don't see a reason to build some stone and wrought iron bridge in our day and age. hell, if it was possible i'd say build a tunnel! won't have to bother with clearances and crossings. but tunnels in Florida are not really that doable? engineers???

with the amount of time that it takes major infrastructure projects to get underway, i don't see a new bridge even being consider till at least after 2010 and the construction >>> 2020-2030???

hey, maybe the old matthews could become a county courthouse?????

[bobliocatt]

Yeah, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for construction to begin. Nobody has an extra $700 million laying around.

BTW, there's a tunnel (US 1) under the Las Olas River in downtown Fort Lauderdale and Miami's metrorail expansion plans include a tunneled segment in the downtown area.

[afh]

Yeah, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for construction to begin.  Nobody has an extra $700 million laying around.

BTW, there's a tunnel (US 1) under the Las Olas River in downtown Fort Lauderdale and Miami's metrorail expansion plans include a tunneled segment in the downtown area.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't know! Funny seeing as how I used to live down there only 5 years ago. As far as the money for a new bridge, you're right. Don't hold your breath. It'll take years for this project to get approved and then more years for the project to even begin. Then more years for the project to be completed. Hell, they haven't even figure out what to do about I-10.

[jjoshjl]

Though I completely understand the frustration of the time frame. Bridges like this are far more massive a project than any building currently even thougt about for JAX. I don't expect to see a new bridge before 2015, and to be quit honost, I would hope I wouldnt. I doubt the Matthews bridge was pushed through, but look at how many people are complaining about it now. This is one of the few times I would hope it goes through several committee reviews. Take there time, so long as it isnt stall tactics. 700 M is alot of money, and I seriously doubt we will get out of it that cheap once all is said and done. I would put the Final value at close to 1.2B. That is ALOT of money. Let them debate SO LONG AS THERE IS PROGRESS. I know it will be embroiled in polotics, things like this always are... But a public works project liek this should not be rushed. Sometimes beuracracy can be a good thing... this might be one of those times. I would hate to spend close to 1B on a new bridge only to find it needs upgrades 10 years later... As it seems we are always doing with Matthews as it is.

Anyway, Like i said, so long as it isnt too politisized, let them do what they need to do.

[120North]

Tunnels are usually not economically viable in florida due to high water table issues and a lack of more impermeable soils like clays and chalk. The Ft. Lauderdale tunnel is one of the only ones that I know of in Florida. It is a pure anomoly.

I am not sure about the funding sources for the Matthews Bridge but I would suspect that it is an extremely long range project and I wouldn't see it happening any time soon. Numbers that large make my nervous after seeing the disaster that has become the SF Bay bridge. What a nightmare they are having out there.

As for the comment about "concrete monstosities" that us Bridge Engineers (yes, I am one) force down your throats, all I can say is that economics is the deciding factor with regards to 90% of the bridge designs. No one likes to have to build bridges. They are expensive, and require maintenance throughout their entire life. With the budgets that we have for transportation being smaller than is required to keep up with the growth of population, you do not have enough money to make every bridge you design an architechtural work of art.

We do the best we can, with the microscopic budget that we have, to build something that serves the purpose of its existence. Safety of the travelling public is our primary goal. However, bridge aesthetics are a major concern during design. We strive to design structures that are of the right proportion, and scope for each site, all the while balancing the budget that we have. Existing site conditions, environment, relevant construction methods, and the general size of a bridge are things that will ultimately determine what most bridges look like. The phasing required to build the New Fuller Warren and the amount of right of way that could be bought, drove its size and shape. I don't know what anyone else thinks, but the Acosta is a very pretty bridge.

Do we want to design hideous concrete monstrosities? Of course not. We would like everything that we do to be beautiful. Every now and then we will get the chance to break out of the box and design someting special. For the most part, we are creating something that serves the purpose of getting someone from point A to Point B in the quickest and safest way possible. Don't hate us because what we design is not beautiful. There is not enough money to go around to be building landmark bridges everywhere.

[Urban_Legend]

hey, maybe the old matthews could become a county courthouse?????