mr. chips

Game Changer!

68 posts in this topic

Columbia is going through some difficult times with regard to several issues: the functioning of several local governments, the contested Baseball stadium, and a vision for the future. We need to do better if we are going to compete statewide with Greenville and Charleston, and regionally with Charlotte, the Triangle, and Atlanta.  We need better leadership, and we need a Game Changer (not Baseball!)

 

My question to you, if you agree with the above statement, is what can we do as a community to change the status quo. We need to think big.

 

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The biggest challenge- and I'm not sure how exactly to solve it- is branding Columbia. When people think of Charleston, they think of the Battery, Rainbow Row, gaslamps, horse drawn carriages, the Ravenel Bridge, plantations, the harbor, etc. It's a very defined image that has been cultivated through advertisements, news articles, TV shows, and other forms of publicity. Greenville more recently has used Reedy Creek Park and Fluor Field to form an identity. While Greenville-Spartanburg is still relatively unknown nationwide, Greenville is becoming more of a brand a la Asheville.

 

Columbia has been pushing it's "Famously Hot" tagline for years, with what appears to be limited success. Perhaps the problem is that Columbia has not found a clear visual that would appeal to tourists, but more importantly draw locals downtown more often. Main Street seems to have the most potential. I think turning much of North Main into a pedestrian-only zone at night would encourage people to visit the shops and restaurants there. Third Street Promenade in Santa Monica has had huge success as a car free street. Implementing this is as simple as installing those street barricades that pop up at cross streets. The facades are already beautiful and I think this would be an amazing way to draw families to town.

Edited by carolinagarnet

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They already shut down main street every other ***dam day, so I think that's already been covered. I don't think little gimmicks like that are going to be what helps Columbia, if anything. These are deep-rooted structural problems that will need to be fixed. What makes Columbia different than Greenville, Charleston, or Charlotte, is that all the centers of activity are strewn hither and thither. The Vista is only kind of near the river, and only close to main street if you're in the right part, which is too far from Bull Street (if that ever happens) and depending on what part a nice walk from the University, which in turn is only kind of walkable to 5 Points. You have both nightlife districts on opposite ends of the City proper, and if you take a walk down Main Street 26/30 nights in a month you'd think you were in the middle of a zombie movie (after everyone dies but before everything goes to hell). Greenville hasn't had that much more development over the past few years, but they're doing it SMARTER: almost everything is on Main Street or next to it, and some things are further but they're solidly in the path of development. It's like icicles forming on a ledge; one builds on another. Charleston has always been a pedestrian city, and now all the development is happening in that same area or resorting to infill (which Columbia needs to do before anything else because it's currently 40% surface parking). Don't get me wrong, other cities have these problems too, and you only have to look as far as Atlanta to see the epitome of a decentralized traffic nightmare. But moving Columbia to equal footing with Charleston will need to solve or mitigate those problems.

 

One guy on these stupid boards is going to come in here and say that nothing in Columbia is terrible, it's all getting better and everything here is sunshine and puppies and rainbows. Either that, or leave some collaterally related newspaper article. That guy's an idiot. Don't listen to that guy. If you want to know what to fix, you have to know what's broken.

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I agree with a large part of what you say - Columbia is too spread out for the kind of city-center development which it needs. The problem is they keep building communities further and further from the center, and then we have to pay for roads, sewers, and services far out instead of building the riverfront park, and doing other projects to beautify the center city. People who come to visit a city see the downtown, not places like Sandhills. Is there no way to stop the construction of more and more developments away from town. Some cities have drawn a line around the city and say, no more road construction or schools, or services outside that line. 

 

But, how do we get more people to buy into that concept of in-town development to improve the city, reduce traffic, beautify the downtown, get rid of power lines, build more parks, be able to bike places, get rid of freight trains through the downtown, etc. ?

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Spes, I wrote a similar diatribe in the Columbia Commons thread. Personally I think the Bull Street development is a distraction that will drain funding from more worth projects. Unfortunately, the Department of Mental Health wants to sell and the campus sitting empty does more harm than good. Mayor Benjamin has discussed the difficulty of helping build the city due to the council-style government, the inability to annex West Columbia and Cayce, and the the amount of non-taxable land in downtown. Any investments the city makes should be designed to increase density (and thus tax collections), which will in turn enable it to tackle additional projects. I think USC will continue to develop Innovista with almost all student-centered projects. Main Street will continue to build upon itself, albeit slowly, with new residents in the Hub at USC and the Palms making it feel more livable. The Vista is pretty built out, but it may diversify its selection of stores and restaurants. Connecting these disparate growth areas is key.

 

As in the case of Charlotte ten years ago, downtowns without residents feel like ghost towns at night. People will never move in unless they feel like there is a cool factor. In my opinion, the best way to do this is to make Main Street an after work hotspot a la Alive After 5 at Epicentre in Charlotte. The people most inclined to buy in a downtown are twenty somethings and the way to draw them is making sure there are shops, restaurants, and activities to keep them engaged. There are still developable spaces on and around Main Street. If Columbia can find a way to draw young people (not just students) onto Main Street, I think there will be a spillover effect in the Vista and eventually Columbia Commons.

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It's not an either-or situation.  Both areas will pop, along with others.  We have a big layout and it's time to forget about letting any part of the larger downtown footprint sit idle.  There's so much room to expand in this era of people returning to the city.  We've got a big frame, and we're going to fill it out.

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It's not an either-or situation.  Both areas will pop, along with others.  We have a big layout and it's time to forget about letting any part of the larger downtown footprint sit idle.  There's so much room to expand in this era of people returning to the city.  We've got a big frame, and we're going to fill it 

There he is. We get it man, you like Columbia. Calm down.

 

I'll go ahead and preface this by saying that I am 100% aware that none of this ranting will change anything and this operates more as a cathartic shout than anything. 

People will never move in unless they feel like there is a cool factor. In my opinion, the best way to do this is to make Main Street an after work hotspot a la Alive After 5 at Epicentre in Charlotte. The people most inclined to buy in a downtown are twenty somethings and the way to draw them is making sure there are shops, restaurants, and activities to keep them engaged. There are still developable spaces on and around Main Street. If Columbia can find a way to draw young people (not just students) onto Main Street, I think there will be a spillover effect in the Vista and eventually Columbia Commons.

 

I agree with what you're saying in principle, because yes, place matters when it comes to drawing businesses, people, and action, and downtown has a lot of shiny potential with wide-open spaces ripe for change. Main Street right now is your best chance of that, and you're absolutely right, if things pick up there they have the potential to hit a tipping point. Maybe that happens once the Hub gets off and running, because doubling the residents on Main is not a small deal. But that's really an "engaged-to-be-engaged" type situation, and while I'm sure it will have an affect, the result is still a moving target.

 

The pleasantries being dispensed with, I kind of take issue with the title of this board because it implies that there's one silver bullet the city could drop that would make Columbia day and night; maybe there's something big and great to be done, yes, but that big-great thing won't solve all your problems. Even if you forget the general fact that the city government is currently a circling gyre of ineptitude, and people in this state look at any public spending like a dumpster fire filled with their money, big projects need other, complimentary factors to have their desired impact. In Greenville (which I beat to death as an example but whatever it works) the City spent a handsome sum on Falls Park, which has had no small part in contributing to their downtown's resurgence. However, if that doesn't happen at the same time that private investment is building up all the new construction upstream, and new companies don't come calling on Greenville, and Bob Hughes doesn't decide to build Project One on Main street, and the Greenville Drive don't set up shop on the West End... you get the picture. My shifty, rambling point is that projects like big public parks or public/private ballparks or massive streetscaping can all be vital parts to developing a downtown, but they need to happen with other things to have their full impact. Not to mention the cultural differences between Columbia and other cities; there is a palpable sense of "too many chiefs not enough Indians" in the state's capitol. Go figure.

 

That being said, yes, I do think making the CBD more pedestrian friendly a-lá Main Street would go towards having a great impact by making the city more walkable, potentially attracting tourism and businesses on those streets, and complementing the historic character of the existing structures. Main Street right now is basically an urban canyon, and pushing streetscaping like that onto the lateral streets (Lady, Washington, Hampton, Taylor) and other thoroughfares (Assembly and Sumter) could be a great way to mesh Main Street with the Vista to the west and the "Historic Buildings District" to the east. But once you do all that, you need something to fill it in, or else you've embarked on a very expensive exercise in putting lipstick on a pig. Main Street has already gone to all that trouble, and there are still big vacant spots in very noticeable locations between Richland and Gervais that are, frankly, embarrassing for a city that tries to puff its chest out as much as Columbia does. This belies the whole point that unlike ghost baseball players, if you build it they might not necessarily come. 

Edited by Spes

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"There he is. We get it man, you like Columbia. Calm down."  

 

No need to cop an attitude.  It's not a matter of whether I like Columbia, or whether you don't.  It's simply realistic to believe that the original area that was the city of Columbia can and will be filled out in modern times, and that there's no need to think in terms of focusing on any one area while ignoring another.  As far as linking Main Street and the Vista, the plan for doing that is front and center at every downtown meeting I attend.  It can be frustrating when everything doesn't happen as quickly as I'd like to see it happen, but I don't see anything being discussed in this thread that's not already on the minds of city leaders.    

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I've always thought Lady Street would be the best connection between the Vista and Main Street. Gervais is too busy to feel pedestrian friendly and with the redevelopment of Moe Levy's and the Palms on Main, the north side of the street feels more inviting. North Main cannot exist as an island- the development needs to feel organic. So much of the Main Street redevelopment is between Hampton and Lauren Streets, several blocks north of the Vista. With enough population density, the owners of the skyscrapers between Lady and Hampton will carve out retail space in their lobbies (as has happened in downtown Charlotte). This is a long way off, however, and not realistic given the amount of developable land in downtown. While I understand your point about concentrating development the way Greenville did, we can't change the fact that Columbia is not a linear city. As much as City Center Partners would probably love to concentrate growth to one area, it's just not practical.

 

I went to USC, lived on the Horseshoe for four years, and consider myself very urban, yet I only walked around downtown a handful of times. The problem was not safety or a lack of things to see- on the contrary, there were plenty of gorgeous buildings, historical landmarks, shops, and restaurants at the time (a few years ago). I didn't venture in that direction as much because there were very few people on the streets. When I lived in Uptown Charlotte, I noticed that I would gravitate toward streets where a lot of people were concentrated. Humans are social beings by nature and we like to be in areas of high activity. The game changer, if there is one, is getting people to live downtown. The more residents there are on and around Main Street, the more the area will generate buzz and the more shops and restaurants will move to breach the gap between the Vista and North Main Street by filling in the spaces on all of the side streets.

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Even though the 850 new residents aren't living at The Hub yet, and even though the Keenan building's conversion to apartments is just getting started, there is already a "night and day" effect on Main Street in the evening.  Even on Wednesday night (two nights ago), it was active with groups of people and couples walking up and down the street.  We ate at a packed Cantina 76, and less than a block away Bourbon was just as packed.  On the 1600 block on Main, people sit outside for sidewalk dining now at the Good Life Cafe and Michael's Cafe.  Savalis is drawing in patrons and also has sidewalk dining, and Al Amir is sure to make it with their ambiance and great-tasting food.  Wine Down on Main, Cowboy Brazilian Steakhouse, the Hampton Vineyard, Drip, Villa Tronco's, the bars and restaurants in the Marriott and the Sheraton, the Columbia Museum of Art with its nighttime activities for young professionals, and the Nickelodeon are all making a big difference. People are coming down there just to be a part of the new energy before and after eating at the restaurants.  While Main Street has a way to go, reading this thread makes me think of the Legend of Sleepy Hollow, like the comments are based on how the central business district was a couple of years ago, or even a year ago, or even a couple of months ago.  It's changing and changing fast. 

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I think Columbia needs something more on the line where Charlotte did with Epicentre. we need a Centre City mall something that draws in all people and stays busy year round just like their Baseball stadium something year round yes but the area is still in development.

 

The whole Saying Build it and they will come in true. I've been to Charlotte over the past decade and I've notice that when The Blue line was built then Epicentre it's really started to get more busy in downtown Charlotte. A Mall in downtown with bars clubs entertainment for family that runs through the night.Specially on Friday and Saturday nights.

 

Just imagine Main St being just busy as the Vista  or 5 Points on weekends or during game days.

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To be fair, I haven't been to Columbia since October. I'm glad to hear that activity has picked up and that new places are opening. I just researched it and downtown Columbia (bordered by Elmwood, Harden, Huger, and Gervais) is the exact same size as downtown Charlotte (bordered by McDowell, Stonewall, Cedar, and 11th Street). It's obviously not a great comparison because Charlotte is a much bigger city and the downtown is completely different in character. That said, Uptown has over 10,000 residents, yet it still struggles with developing certain areas and attracting retail. Columbia benefits from having USC two blocks south, which the developers of the Hub have already capitalized on. I think there's enough pent up demand to built student-oriented apartments in both downtown and Innovista. My hope is that the activity downtown will encourage recent graduates to move there rather than to other areas of town.

Edited by carolinagarnet

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I hear the AgFirst building has been sold to a developer who plans high-end apartments with an agreement not to market to students.  The Keenan building as far as I know hasn't had "students" attached to any announcements regarding its conversion to apartments, and now the Free Times this week says the CEO of Capitol Places plans to convert the old Seibels building (the one at Lady and Marion) into 134 apartments, and he has never marketed specifically to students.  Students can live wherever they want to, but if a development doesn't advertise to them it makes it more likely that there will be a mix of residents that reflects the city's population, including young professionals and empty-nesters.  

Edited by CorgiMatt
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I hadn't heard about the AgFirst conversion. That building is beautiful and already looks residential to be honest. The other buildings you mentioned should bring some great foot traffic to the area. I think higher quality and thus a higher price point naturally rules out a lot of students. There's a great business case for developing some of the beautiful older buildings downtown. Lawyers alone could probably fill anything that comes on the market. The empty-nester phenomenon is interesting as well. I remember that Adesso marketed heavily to this group, with limited success. It may be that Adessi was too early to market, priced too high, or that older couples are more interested in renting than buying. I'd be interested to know the percentage of buyers they constitute.

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reading this thread makes me think of the Legend of Sleepy Hollow, like the comments are based on how the central business district was a couple of years ago, or even a year ago, or even a couple of months ago.  It's changing and changing fast. 

 

I'm fully aware of what is happening downtown, in part because I read this stupid board for a reason I've yet to determine, but mostly because I live downtown and see what's happening every day. My hostility is geared entirely towards the contingent on this group that just wants to take a stroll through what has already happened, content that "everything's getting better! Believe it!" This is the same contingent that gets into tawdry little spats with other people that talk about another city and tries to knock that one down, mostly because it's not Columbia. If somebody wants to speak like a late-90's promotional spot, then fine, whatever, but don't make it out like that sunshine-pumping is the god's honest truth and everything else is doom-saying or fuddy-duddy-ism. 

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I'm fully aware of what is happening downtown, in part because I read this stupid board for a reason I've yet to determine, but mostly because I live downtown and see what's happening every day. My hostility is geared entirely towards the contingent on this group that just wants to take a stroll through what has already happened, content that "everything's getting better! Believe it!" This is the same contingent that gets into tawdry little spats with other people that talk about another city and tries to knock that one down, mostly because it's not Columbia. If somebody wants to speak like a late-90's promotional spot, then fine, whatever, but don't make it out like that sunshine-pumping is the god's honest truth and everything else is doom-saying or fuddy-duddy-ism. 

There are people on these boards who seem to find it impossible to show appreciation for any accomplishments, choosing instead to only point out things that haven't been accomplished yet.  Even when it's announced that something's going to be developed, those people usually choose to point out something that they wish would be developed but hasn't made it to the drawing board or announcement stage yet.  That approach can be taken for any city.      

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To be fair, I visit downtown Columbia 1-2 times a year and always anticipate much more change than has actually occurred based on the activity on this board. The area has unquestionably improved and there seems to be a lot in the pipeline, but it's going to take a long time for all of the developments to feel connected given the geographic footprint of Columbia and the length of Main Street. Even the Vista, as beautiful and continuous as it is, still has room to develop (i.e. new Hyatt, Adluh renovation). Living downtown probably gives you a better appreciation for small changes that are made, but for people who don't see the area as frequently, it will take some time for all of the individual updates to coalesce into a unified district. At the end of the day, everyone on here wants to see Columbia improve. We just have different opinion on how that should happen.

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I'm going to ask that everyone respect the opinions of others on this board, regardless of what you might think of them. We can disagree respectfully without being provocative. Now with that said...

 

Columbia is going through some difficult times with regard to several issues: the functioning of several local governments, the contested Baseball stadium, and a vision for the future. We need to do better if we are going to compete statewide with Greenville and Charleston, and regionally with Charlotte, the Triangle, and Atlanta.  We need better leadership, and we need a Game Changer (not Baseball!)

 

My question to you, if you agree with the above statement, is what can we do as a community to change the status quo. We need to think big.

 

Your question is rather vague and when you threw Atlanta and the Triangle into the mix, I automatically thought along economic lines as opposed to issues of urban development. Columbia's making strides in harnessing its strengths for greater job creation, but of course more can always be done. Even with the recession, I think that if USC was more prudent in establishing and developing Innovista, it might have borne more fruit at this point. 

 

With respect to urban development, let's tackle the low-hanging fruit first which is fostering the connections between the riverfront, the Vista, and Main Street. First you have the obvious gap which is the northwest and southwest parcels at the Assembly/Gervais intersection, which is the most high-profile intersection in the city. I've heard that the land on at least one of those parcels is owned by a former city councilmember and I'm more than certain that he's been approached about selling it. Until there's some movement there on the part of private entities, nothing much is going to happen. However, it's good to at least see some recent improvements to the Gervais streetscape in terms of walkability. I also agree with connecting the Vista to Main via Lady Street; the downtown retail study that the city commissioned several years ago suggested encouraging infill closer to Main Street for this very purpose. As far as Assembly Street itself, the second phase of the streetscaping that will extend to Hampton or so should also help in fostering this connection. At some point in the future, I'd also like to see Finlay Park integrated more into the fabric of downtown; having the post office move and extending the park up to Assembly to give it a presence along that corridor would do wonders, as well as putting Hampton Street in a road diet. I see the development of the Kline and SCE&G property as working to help tie the riverfront to the Vista. Although a pipe dream, I think it would be cool if an attraction was developed there, like an aquarium with a parking garage, facing inward towards the parking lot shared by the State Museum and EdVenture. Develop that parking lot into a park/plaza, essentially acting as an extension of Canal Front/Coble Plaza as an interactive, educational green space and have all three venues utilize the garage. The penny sales tax should help with further development of the greenway on Columbia's side and I hope we hear something about the proposed new waterfront park getting off the ground within the next few years.

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Since you brought up SCE&G, does anyone know their timeline for selling off some of their land downtown (if there is one at all)? They seem to own parcels all over the city. I guess there's no rush if they do not have developers knocking on their door, but I think signaling that their land may be sold for redevelopment would be a good start.

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Since you brought up SCE&G, does anyone know their timeline for selling off some of their land downtown (if there is one at all)? They seem to own parcels all over the city. I guess there's no rush if they do not have developers knocking on their door, but I think signaling that their land may be sold for redevelopment would be a good start.

That is a great point. Why is there so much land being used as surface parking lots right near the Capitol building? That should be the most walk-able part of the city, with upscale apartments and nice restaurants. Right across Assembly from the Statehouse is so ugly with the empty parking lots, and the same in the block south of the Statehouse on Main. Who owns those lots, and why have they not been developed into something appealing? It's a No-Brainer for improving the look of the City.

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spes, could you tell us roughly what is the area of downtown Columbia where you live, how long you've lived there, and where you lived before moving there?

 

Also, what would you consider are some of the most glaring deficiencies in the area immediately surrounding where you live (within two or three blocks)? 

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That is a great point. Why is there so much land being used as surface parking lots right near the Capitol building? That should be the most walk-able part of the city, with upscale apartments and nice restaurants. Right across Assembly from the Statehouse is so ugly with the empty parking lots, and the same in the block south of the Statehouse on Main. Who owns those lots, and why have they not been developed into something appealing? It's a No-Brainer for improving the look of the City.

 

I touched on this issue in my post. I know it's a little long but I think it contains some good info.  :good:

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spes, could you tell us roughly what is the area of downtown Columbia where you live, how long you've lived there, and where you lived before moving there?

 

Also, what would you consider are some of the most glaring deficiencies in the area immediately surrounding where you live (within two or three blocks)? 

 

I'll decline to disclose any personal details, but suffice it to say that I live off Main Street, and lived several places across the state before landing here. In my estimation the biggest blight for downtown is vacancy. Without doing any real tallying, I can think of several noticeably vacant store fronts on Main and Gervais streets, in what is supposed to be the most thriving area of the city: the blue building next to Drake's, the corner at taylor and main, the corner on main and blanding, the former White Mule, the Barringer Building's first floor, etc.... The side streets have the same problem. Further, even if there isn't vacancy there's a serious lack of pedestrian oriented-use, to which I'll point to the office buildings at the corner of washington and main, and others. Then there's the surface parking lots, like the one adjoining the wells fargo building, the ones by the Cornell Arms and the State house, the ones that cover the entire back of the block between main, sumter, blanding and laurel, behind Mellow on lady street, either side of pendleton at assembly, not to mention the two biggest eyesores in the city at the intersection of gervais and assembly. the funny thing is that these are all private lots, and the same cast of characters that complain about the lack of parking (as though living in a scooby-doo ghost-town is much better) can't cogently say that using those lots will make parking worse. So from a pedestrian oriented view, all this adds up to a space where there's wide swaths of nothing happening, which does nothing to tie together the parts of the city that need tying together. 

 

Before I lived here I would always hear people from Columbia poo-poo more rural parts of the state, disapproving of the small-town vacuums in the counties. "It's not like being in Columbia, where you're near everything" I always heard. Imagine my surprise when I moved here—to the heart of downtown no less— only to find out that the big city I heard so much about was actually empty. 

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I'm one to focus more on assets while hoping for fill-in.  To say downtown Columbia is empty is definitely a misnomer.  Being aware of what needs fixing and dwelling on those points don't have to be the same thing.  I enjoy each and every development and announcement in the form renovations and new development.  There are power brokers holding on to their lots, no doubt, some probably just because they can and just because they like being power brokers.  But I'm not going to allow the spots I wish were filled in to diminish my enjoyment of what downtown has to offer, which is a lot.  It has been pointed out many times that Columbia's present development is spread across several districts that are not yet connected.  But as time goes on those nodes will be connected by both new development and public transit.  It can be frustrating that not everything is as I would have it be now, but no matter the city, there are things people hope for in the future that are going to take a while to happen.

 

In the meantime when I'm in the central business district I'll enjoy the restaurants, stores, galleries, the museum of art, the Nickelodeon and so forth, and when I'm the Vista I'll enjoy the same, as in Five Points, Devine Street, etc.  When I have reason to walk from the CBD to the Vista I'll dream of what might be at Gervais and Assembly some day to replace the asphalt, but I'm glad that downtown Columbia is not only not empty but filling up with new things all the while.  As for empty store fronts, the empty ones are far fewer than the full ones, and It's good to have some space for potential new retailers to see.

Edited by CorgiMatt
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I'm gonna have to agree with specs. I live in Greenville and have to go to Columbia from time to time to take care of business. I have friends and acqaintances from down that way that do kind of put other places down in the state. Must be a inferiority complex. Don't get me wrong. Columbia's a nice place and all, It's just not that impressive to me. And downtown Columbia is a classic downtown.

 

CorigiMatt your right to. Like here in Greenville. There are many surface lots that have owners who just want to stay in conversation. But that is slowly but surely changing. Developement is connecting parts of downtown Greenville that hadn't been connected before. We have developers like Mr. Hughes and others who making those changes happen. And you all are lucky to folk like him even eyeing your city. Things will happen. It'll just take time.   

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