PROPOSED: North Downtown/Baseball Stadium Development

[Theophrastus Bombastus]

See post above in Rock Cats...

 

The RFP calls for creation of "a new neighborhood that connects the vibrancy of our urban core and surrounding neighborhoods" with a mixed-use development of at least 300 housing units and townhomes, more than 100,000 gross square feet of ground-floor retail and commercial space - including a supermarket, public open spaces, parking structures, and a 9,000 fan capacity minor league stadium.

[The Voice of Reason]

Im not sure about that 300 housing unit number as a minimum.

 

Based on the associated map, I would sure like to see way more than 300 units in that large of a footprint.

 

Id say there is certainly room for 500 easily 

[HartfordTycoon]

Anyone going to the public forum at the library tonight? I'm going to attend.

 

It's been frustrating watching the backlash and sensational journalism proclaiming that the stadium proposal has killed the 12-B mixed use proposal with the grocery store. I've spoken with folks connected to that project and it is not true. The operator they had for the ShopRite and some of their funders have indicated that they don't view the stadium as an ideal neighbor, however they are open to ongoing discussions with the city. Apparently, whoever is really backing that was making a play to become the master developer of the whole area. Maybe the stadium announcement was news to them that that was not likely going to happen. Either way, if the stadium gets the ball rolling on developing the area, then I am all for it. Also, having an MLB affiliated franchise in Hartford is valuable and Hartford is the rightful city in the region to play host to such a franchise.

[HartfordTycoon]

The city did not announce this plan as well as they could have. Take the Richmond proposal as a prime example of what Hartford should have done. Now, they have gotten the message and this has to be sold as the overall development plan for DoNo that will bring the housing and retail that everyone can agree would breath new life into a very dead spot in the city.

[The Voice of Reason]

HT, I agree with your sentiments in general, but the Grocery store thing was technically killed by that change

 

I would be happy to talk to you off-line with the info regarding my source who is 100% on this development deal.   The financing company the loan fund was using has a rule about lending in entertainment districts, so the financing dried up when this became an entertainment district.

 

With the sweetheart financing gone, Shoprite pulled back.   Remember it was the grocer that had to be lured to this project with sweetheart financing and grants to solve the food desert thing.

 

Regarding the developer, I bet they are not really done with the idea because they were primarily in it for the housing component and the Hartford apartment market.

just the same, the deal kinda dies without a grocery store leasing up all that retail space.

 

The biggest issue here in this thing was the city not talking to the loan fund leaders.  I suspect this torpedoed the deal just as much.   I hear that Deller is pretty ruthless, but obviously he is pretty effective also.

Thats maybe what Hartford needs, but I think he has ruffled feathers.

 

I am confident that this RFP will reap rewards in terms of these developers coming back to the table...

 

IO mean look at it this way

 

You are a major developer and you win the right to put 600 apartments and 100K SF of potentially lucritive real estate along with say 2000 Parking spaces literally in a citys downtown.... this is a 300 million project if its $1

 

if in order to win the bid, you need a grocery store operator.... well you already know shoprite was interested, so who do you call first...

[The Voice of Reason]

I agree HT   Big time goof up here

 

I think of t this way though.

 

they set the bar low

people got pissed

now they are going to be able to make a bigger announcement and the deal looks better

 

in the end there are people who will always say something about potholes  or about giving millionairs money for sports...

 

but when the bigger project comes out many of the other petty squabbles should go away.

 

 

If 38 million in new city bonding brings a total of $500 million in new development I call that a steal. 

[HartfordTycoon]

HT, I agree with your sentiments in general, but the Grocery store thing was technically killed by that change

 

I would be happy to talk to you off-line with the info regarding my source who is 100% on this development deal.   The financing company the loan fund was using has a rule about lending in entertainment districts, so the financing dried up when this became an entertainment district.

 

With the sweetheart financing gone, Shoprite pulled back.   Remember it was the grocer that had to be lured to this project with sweetheart financing and grants to solve the food desert thing.

 

Regarding the developer, I bet they are not really done with the idea because they were primarily in it for the housing component and the Hartford apartment market.

just the same, the deal kinda dies without a grocery store leasing up all that retail space.

 

The biggest issue here in this thing was the city not talking to the loan fund leaders.  I suspect this torpedoed the deal just as much.   I hear that Deller is pretty ruthless, but obviously he is pretty effective also.

Thats maybe what Hartford needs, but I think he has ruffled feathers.

 

I am confident that this RFP will reap rewards in terms of these developers coming back to the table...

 

IO mean look at it this way

 

You are a major developer and you win the right to put 600 apartments and 100K SF of potentially lucritive real estate along with say 2000 Parking spaces literally in a citys downtown.... this is a 300 million project if its $1

 

if in order to win the bid, you need a grocery store operator.... well you already know shoprite was interested, so who do you call first...

 

I think I have the same info that you do. The stadium definitely killed the ShopRite and the financing for it. I think it's silly that this has to now be designated as an "entertainment district" because a stadium is located on the next block over. The proposed site is already what, 2 blocks from the XL Center? Downtown Hartford is an entertainment district.

[The Voice of Reason]

Its pretty insane I agree.

 

 

What defines an entertainment district?  I am pretty sure every large town to large caity would need to classify "downtown" as an entertainment district

 

Lot 12 B is decidely in Hartfords downtown.   We can call it a new area or whatever but just because its on the otherside of a 150 foot wide divider (I-*84) does not make this a residential area.

 

Hell its smack between XL and the Meadows and then there is Hartford Stage, and I suppose Citysteams Comedy club counts too right?

the skate park is entertainment right?

 

West India social club...

every city is entertaining

[beerbeer]

One look at the fifth grade drawing of the supermarket made me suspicious. If the project was real, I suspect what killed the supermarket is that the land under it became more valuable the second the Rockcat Park was announced. That probably caused the price of the project to go up and that's what killed the deal.  That makes more sense.

[Luca Brasi]

What people don't understand is that no one is building ANYTHING for the Rock Cats owners. The stadium is for the city and will be owned by the city. The baseball team will be paying rent to the city... five times what they are paying in New Britain. Uninformed people- are there are a lot on this subject- are under the impression the city is building and giving the Rock cats a stadium which is not the case at all. I'm pretty sure the city will make money off of concessions, parking, etc. Parking stands to be the biggest money maker year round.

[The Voice of Reason]

The parking component is the most interesting for sure.

 

If the parking charges 7 bucks per game (the same the rock cats do, you are talking about 3000X7 per game

 

21K per game will add up quickly

[Luca Brasi]

You will also get year 'round daytime parking as well

[Theophrastus Bombastus]

http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-hartford-stadium-funding-0712-20140711,0,6704064.story

 

Hartford Withdraws $60 Million Bond Plan For New Stadium; Wants Private Funding

 

Oops, not so fast.....

 

Do any of you UP Hartfordites comment on the Courant website?

[jdrinboston]

http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-hartford-stadium-funding-0712-20140711,0,6704064.story

 

Hartford Withdraws $60 Million Bond Plan For New Stadium; Wants Private Funding

 

Oops, not so fast.....

 

Do any of you UP Hartfordites comment on the Courant website?

 

 

At the risk of being a downer, there is no way they will get $60 million in private financing for a ballpark. In 2014 equivalent dollars, they would need about $14 million to build the equivalent of New Britain Stadium on that site and frankly, I don't think they could find enough private financing to cover that either.  Segarra and Diller seem to be playing coy, implying they have four developers interested in the project. I'm extremely skeptical of this, but perhaps they are thinking "private/public" partnership where developers would build apartments/retail and the city would actually finance the ballpark under the guise of a larger project. 

 

Given that the earliest this could be approved is September and the Rock Cats lease expires at the end of 2015, I'm also skeptical that they could get the ballpark finished in time. It looks like the ball is in the Solomon's court. 

[Theophrastus Bombastus]

I'm sure they don't start until the stadium starts......

 

http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-rock-cats-hooker-0717-20140716,0,5031261.story

[Luca Brasi]

A built in tenant willing to take 50,000 sq ft certainly makes this project much more attractive for a private developer.

[HartfordTycoon]

It was a very shrewd move for Soloman to get Hooker Brewery involved. That project has the potential to add hundreds of permanent, decent paying jobs to the neighborhood that many neighborhood residents would be qualified for. Community leaders will want to make sure that part of this development happens. I wish the city had a more comprehensive approach to begin with, but it's really good to see that they and the team owners are being proactive now. I'm curious as to what the planned use for the old processing center is and also whether the Hartford Community Loan Fund is going to submit any bids. I can't imagine that they have completely lost interest in the 12B site but wouldn't mind if a more well-resourced developer was now interested. I don't think they played this whole situation the way they should have either.  

[The Voice of Reason]

I am all for Hooker to move downtown but have the same concerns I did at the Front Street location.

 

Breweries are semi industrial uses and I wouldnt want the future built environment her to be negatively affected by a commercial brewery.

 

I truely hope that this announcement catches the attention of the potential bidders though.

 

it is perfect to say... Hey, we are interested, please include us!!

 

 

The resulting development should absolutely include something like this where the production facility could be a little outta the way and the customer facing side should be front and center.

 

I dont exactly want industrial style loading docks anywhere near an entertainment facility or pedestrian friendly insersection.

[The Voice of Reason]

http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/courant-250/moments-in-history/explore-44/hc-250-haar-hartford-stadium-20140725,0,3903656.column

 

wow, an actual honest portrait of what the affected residents feel.

 

im impressed Dan Haar

 

 

Its a shame that the media and the politicos tend to ignore what the actual constituants think.

 

I for one wrote a letter to the entire city council expressing my support of the stadium as a Hartford Ciity tax payer.

 

[HartfordTycoon]

I was extremely pleased that Dan Haar wrote that piece. The people who claim to speak for the neighborhood don't have much connection to it.

[HartfordTycoon]

I'm a little confused as to whether the Hooker proposal is considered one of the 4 development proposals of if it's more of a component that will be proposed in conjunction with the larger plan.  I think it's about what you would expect from the stadium and brewery/restaurant portion of this development.  I really want to see the full details for all of the proposals to see what sort of housing developments are in the mix.

[HartfordTycoon]

http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-hartford-stadium-bids-0806-20140805,0,1176053.story

 

So, apparently, the Hooker proposal was one of the four. Another was submitted by Leyland Alliance, the developer of Storrs Center. The Hooker proposal is only for the Hooker project. The Leyland proposal is to develop a large portion of NoDo, including the stadium. Presumably, Hooker will work with whomever is chosen as the master developer. I'm really starting to get excited. Just a few months ago, I was saying this area would need to wait and now we have proposals coming in, at least one from a solid developer with a proven track record of local success. More and more air is coming out of the sails of the anti-stadium crowd. The residents of the neighborhood are going to want the mixed use development once they get to really understand what it is. I think the residents will end up being strongly behind this.

 

I think it makes sense to have all of the NoDo stuff in one thread, so I'm going to merge everything and pin it.

[The Voice of Reason]

Yeah, that hooker proposal is kinda crap, Id actually fight it and I frekin love the idea of there at that location just not in that context.

 

I am psyched Leyland is in on this and hope someone like them are chozen and that Hooker can be worked into it.

 

 

Here is the article from HBJ about the specific stadium developer coming with the Leyland group.

http://www.hartfordbusiness.com/article/20140806/NEWS01/140809950

 

 

 

These guys are great because I think they have actually exceeded the minimum requirements out in Storrs, so its is clear they understand that density and critical mass are important.

 

I essentially would say there are 3 proposals because that Hooker one can be scrapped as kind of a 3rd party single issue candidate.

 

they will likely be included in any of the other 3 proposals.  In fact I am confident that the city will add that as a requirement to the winning bidder.

 

 

 

 

[HeartbeatHead]

http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-hartford-stadium-bids-0807-20140806,0,1896951.story

Looks like some news is coming out. LeylandAlliance is ambitious. A new municipal building and at least 600 units for housing? Awesome!

[The Voice of Reason]

Here is the HBJ Article

 

http://www.hartfordbusiness.com/article/20140806/NEWS01/140809947

 

There is some bad news is these positive developments though.

 

The city has received 4 proposals, and one was thrown out as being not qualified.

Hooker is counted as one qualified bidder, so that meansd there are only 2 that are bigger broader proposals.

 

that sucks

maybe I am reading the articles wrong.

 

I honestly only see one clear acceptable bid.

 

Leyland alliance

 

600 units of housing is perfect   300 was too few for such a large area, so this is refreshing

210K sf of office space for a new city hall -sounds about right.  that a decent sized building but its not oversized at all.

plenty of retail including a grocery store and a brewery...  check check and check  this takes care of the locals and Hooker

only thing not highlighted was parking and thats a good thing but I am sure its included

this is exactly what they have in Mansfield, and what Front street first looked like too!!

 

the others just dont stack up!

 

CV Properties LLC

seems incomplete, but if they identify some good housing partners and have enough scale, I suppose it can count

 

a city hall and a garage with retail in it in addition to the ballpark is kind of a joke though

 

while it may be a catalyst, it is super underwhelming.  It would absolutely NEED to have a housing component signed on

 

Hooker

totally incomplete

no housing, no office, no nothing

this needs to be part of another development.

Unless they are holding back more info this sounds like its does not meet the requirements

Edited August 6, 2014 by The Voice of Reason