Norfolk a possible finalist for Stone Brewery

[VBIllini13]

I've never been to Columbus so I can't guess the makeup of their city any better than they can do ours, but even though that's a college town, I do wonder if they have a craft beer fanbase the way Norfolk does, esp. in Ghent. Another option in addition to Smartmouth and O'Connor is always welcome, although I'm all about supporting the local economy. As I said earlier, a national brand could not only help boost Norfolk's profile as a popular craft beer city, but I feel the breweries could compliment each other in a way.

 

The only thing I can guess that would wake Stone go to Columbus over Norfolk is the fact that Ohio State is there so they'd have very easy access to an enormous beer-drinking market, especially during the football season (very few places bring in 100k+ per game) and basketball season.  That said, I'm pretty confident Norfolk has the competitive advantage in this case.

[Bishop Dan]

Hello guys, I live in Columbus. Not here to talk smack, what would you like to know about the place? From what I can see, obviously, transportation is a big consideration. You have a port we, ahem, would be hard pressed to come by. Our big thing is rail, with a rather large intermodal yard or two.

I see a lot of talk about it being a college town and I suppose that's true, we do love Ohio State, but that's 60,000 students in a county of over a million people. There is a significant craft beer industry - actually alcohol in general - enough so the Seattle PI called us one of the top ten up and coming craft beer cities. As a former Virginia resident I'm embarrassed to say I don't know much about that scene in the Hampton Roads area. Judging by this thread and the fact Stone is looking this hard, it's pretty established, no?

So, let's shoot the bull. What is lacking in your knowledge of Columbus that you need to know while we all fill the time leading up to Stone's announcement?

[HRVT]

It definitely makes me nervous that apparently Richmond is still very much in the running (Richmond is where I thought they would land from the beginning). They have the rail access that Columbus has. They have some port access (obviously not as much as Norfolk, but a workable ability to have access). Like Columbus, they have a good craft brew scene. Richmond is also not at the end of a cul-de-sac, if you will, of interstate access.

 

Ultimately, if they choose Norfolk, it's going to come down to water and of course, location location location. The site next to Harbor Park has potential to be absolutely excellent. And as had been said elsewhere, if we don't land Stone, it won't be from lack of effort. 

[Bishop Dan]

Hi Dan,

I am really excited about the prospect of Norfolk landing Stone Brewing Company's east coast operation. It would appear that things have come down to us Richmond and Columbus. I believe that these cities all being finalists from out of well ove 200 others speaks volumes as to the impression each of our them and their leaders made. We should all be proud of that.

Yes, I agree. I did spend some time in your area...I actually got to see some ships leave port after 9/11. I was in Chesapeake for business at the time and got stuck since planes were grounded. The area struck me as Norfolk vs everyone else as far as being a city was concerned. Your infrastructure is fantastic, except for the tunnels, but I'm sure you've heard that before

Craft beer is growing very quickly in Virginia I think there are about 85 craft breweries statewide. In Norfolk there are just two so far, Smartmouth, and O'Connor's. They are both good and both have recently expanded operations. Next door in Virginia Beach there is Back Bay, Beach Brewing Co., Home Republic, and Young Veterans. In 2016 San Diego's Green Flash will open their east coast site in Virginia Beach as well. Additionally there are many craft beer taphouses in the area. I am admittedly very new to the craft beer experience, but I am seriously afflicted with that bug's symptoms.

I feel like an idiot for not having numbers at my fingertips so I will go off the Ohio Craft Brewers Association page. In Columbus we have Actual Brewing, Barley's, Buckeye Lake, Columbus Brewing, Elevator, Four String, Land Grant, North High, Rockmill, Seventh Son, Sideswipe, Staas, Wolf's Ridge, Zaftig, and Zauber.

I really can't keep up with the new stuff going on here, so I feel your pain. I love living in a time where you always have something new to drink.

It's really hard to predict which of our cities will get the nod as I can think of possible pros and cons of each.

There are two things that, while they shouldn't affect a decision, just might. Anheuser-Busch has a long standing brewery here, and one of the founders of Stone is a native of this area. A lot of people here are using the latter point on social media.

Norfolk has really great water and a 100 million gallon a day capacity, so we have planty of resources to accomodate others on the industry. The physical site which has been proposed is really nice IMO. It is is the parking area of AAA baseball stadium Harbor Park between the left field wall and an Amtrack Station on the Northeast line. It is also served by light rail which will be extended the remaining 25 miles to the VB oceanfront resort area

I looked up the 2013 water usage report for Columbus, on an average day 137.6 million gallons are used, I don't know what the capacity is. Unfortunately I do not know what site they are proposing. The one you have looks really nice, on the water and very close to a freeway.

I saw a great picture of the beautiful public fountain in Columbus. I am sure there is much more there in terms of new drvelopment of which I am unaware, so please provide some information. BTW I thought it was an awesome show of support by your area's bars, and your people, to tap Stone beers last Sat. Hats off!

The fountain I'm thinking you're referencing is on the Scioto Mile. As far as new development, I'm really sorry but there is a ton of that, I don't know what you want in particular. Most is concentrated on the downtown area, between the Arena District (think Blue Jackets / Columbus Clippers), Short North, and the Brewery District and German Village. But honestly there are apartments going up on what seems like every square inch of property, lol.

[wrldcoupe4]

With Stone opening a brewery facility in Europe, is port access really a factor? Isn't this facility a manufacturing and distribution point for the eastern US? Apparently, Richmond is proposing a riverfront site situated between Shockoe Bottom and Rockett's Landing, just east of downtown but still very close to I-95/I-64

[HRVT]

With Stone opening a brewery facility in Europe, is port access really a factor? Isn't this facility a manufacturing and distribution point for the eastern US? Apparently, Richmond is proposing a riverfront site situated between Shockoe Bottom and Rockett's Landing, just east of downtown but still very close to I-95/I-64

I don't disagree, and the scrambling going on in Richmond from what I read on yall's board sounds promising for Richmond. The biggest competitive advantage Norfolk has from what I hear is the water quality (which in brewing IS a big deal). As I said earlier when I saw the list of 10, I felt Richmond was the favorite.

 

The other thing Norfolk does have working for it though is that it is fairly similar to a miniature San Diego in many ways (military town, ports, etc). And that is where Stone is coming from. 

[mikeas]

I was chatting with a Richmond brewer this past weekend on his thoughts about Stone and his insider theory is that Stone will be coming to both Norfolk and Richmond.  He said one city will get the large brewery and the other will get a satellite brewery/restaurant/company store concept.  In fact he said if they follow suite from what they have done on the west coast they will probably open a company store/restaurant in another region of the state as well.  I'm still hopeful Norfolk will land the large brewery as the additional jobs would be great.

[HRVT]

I was chatting with a Richmond brewer this past weekend on his thoughts about Stone and his insider theory is that Stone will be coming to both Norfolk and Richmond.  He said one city will get the large brewery and the other will get a satellite brewery/restaurant/company store concept.  In fact he said if they follow suite from what they have done on the west coast they will probably open a company store/restaurant in another region of the state as well.  I'm still hopeful Norfolk will land the large brewery as the additional jobs would be great.

That actually makes quite a bit of sense. The space near Harbor Park where they are discussing the brewery does seem a bit small for the large brewery concept they are looking at. That would also explain the rezoning on Northampton Blvd (Norfolk's pitch to get both the large and small brewery). It would be great to get both the large brewery AND the company store/restaurant.... but at least getting the store/restaurant/satellite brewery is better than getting nothing.

[brikkman]

That actually makes quite a bit of sense. The space near Harbor Park where they are discussing the brewery does seem a bit small for the large brewery concept they are looking at. That would also explain the rezoning on Northampton Blvd (Norfolk's pitch to get both the large and small brewery). It would be great to get both the large brewery AND the company store/restaurant.... but at least getting the store/restaurant/satellite brewery is better than getting nothing.

I thought the area was small for something like that, but then again I do not know much about breweries or even drinking for that matter. A lot of talk goes into  harbor park, almost as if it has outlived its purpose in a way. I remember someone saying or seeing something saying harbor park was designed to be expanded. I assume that only meant upwards and I assume if we ever got a MLB, they would build decks. Of course it seems as t hough they probably have abandoned that idea all together. 

With that being said, it would be unique to see a brewery with store/restaurant feel. It would tie into waterside in a way to give that area life.

[BFG]

I remember that when they tried to court the Nationals, they would've expanded Harbor Park to 18,000 then tear it down to build a new stadium. But that makes little sense to me, given it's only 20 years old.

I've looked at overhead shots on Google Maps and it seems like they could put extra seating throughout the outfield and with upper decks, expand to 25-30,000. It would still be small but I think it could work here. But if the brewery goes there, I wonder if it would impede parking?

Stone Brewery Field at Harbor Park has a nice ring to it though...

[Urbanlooker]

I remember that when they tried to court the Nationals, they would've expanded Harbor Park to 18,000 then tear it down to build a new stadium. But that makes little sense to me, given it's only 20 years old.

I've looked at overhead shots on Google Maps and it seems like they could put extra seating throughout the outfield and with upper decks, expand to 25-30,000. It would still be small but I think it could work here. But if the brewery goes there, I wonder if it would impede parking?

Stone Brewery Field at Harbor Park has a nice ring to it though...

If we do get Stone and hopefully we do i believe i read or saw something about the city is going to build a parking structure

[757Duke]

I feel that a parking structure combined with light rail service should be sufficient for the demand as that area develops further.

[BFG]

To the surprise of probably no one, we're officially in the top 3.

http://altdaily.com/features/food/7058-norfolk-in-final-3-for-stone

[757Duke]

Here's another article hinting at the possibility of development around the Harbor Park site in the near future. If this and the developments around Fort Norfolk come together, downtown is going to seem sizable in the next 10 years or so.

 

http://hamptonroads.com/2014/08/luck-harbor-park-area-wont-stay-undeveloped

[K76T]

Any chance the old Rivers Edge project comes back? I believe that was the name of the project which included 3 towers across from Harbor Park.

[vdogg]

Some news on the brewery front. Keep in mind this is still a rumor so don't lose hope, but the evidence is compelling...

http://rvanews.com/news/rumors-of-stone-brewing-location-in-manchester/116110

"Thalhimer Realty Partners is requesting a special use permit to allow a 130,000-square-foot brewery on its Reynolds South tract in Manchester. The application was submitted Aug. 6, as California-based Stone Brewing Co. nears a decision on where to put to its planned East Coast operations.

Thalhimer is requesting the special use permit to allow a brewery at a 6.3-acre tract bounded by Porter, Bainbridge, 4th and 7th streets. The permit would allow the potential brewing facility to expand to as big as 220,000 square feet and brew in excess of 100,000 barrels of beer each year.

Those specs line up with numbers in a Stone Brewing Company RFP for a major brewery, restaurant and retail facility to serve as the company’s base of operations on the East Coast."

Also, for those of us wondering why Columbus was in the running.

http://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/local/2014/08/17/stone-brewery-narrows-search-m-project/14200355/

"Both Ohio and Virginia have vastly lower excise taxes on beer — 18 cents per gallon in Ohio, 26 cents per gallon in Virginia, compared to 77 cent per gallon in South Carolina, he said....

In Ohio, the effort to attract Stone to the CEO and founder's hometown area of Columbus has also resulted in a move to change laws."

[HRVT]

Some news on the brewery front. Keep in mind this is still a rumor so don't lose hope, but the evidence is compelling...

http://rvanews.com/news/rumors-of-stone-brewing-location-in-manchester/116110

"Thalhimer Realty Partners is requesting a special use permit to allow a 130,000-square-foot brewery on its Reynolds South tract in Manchester. The application was submitted Aug. 6, as California-based Stone Brewing Co. nears a decision on where to put to its planned East Coast operations.

Thalhimer is requesting the special use permit to allow a brewery at a 6.3-acre tract bounded by Porter, Bainbridge, 4th and 7th streets. The permit would allow the potential brewing facility to expand to as big as 220,000 square feet and brew in excess of 100,000 barrels of beer each year.

Those specs line up with numbers in a Stone Brewing Company RFP for a major brewery, restaurant and retail facility to serve as the company’s base of operations on the East Coast."

Also, for those of us wondering why Columbus was in the running.

http://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/local/2014/08/17/stone-brewery-narrows-search-m-project/14200355/

"Both Ohio and Virginia have vastly lower excise taxes on beer — 18 cents per gallon in Ohio, 26 cents per gallon in Virginia, compared to 77 cent per gallon in South Carolina, he said....

In Ohio, the effort to attract Stone to the CEO and founder's hometown area of Columbus has also resulted in a move to change laws."

At this point, I'd be somewhat happy with the rumor that another posted put on the last page where Richmond gets the big brewery, but Norfolk gets a smaller auxiliary brewery and restaurant. Things are moving quickly in Richmond to the point where it looks like that's where Stone is heading. And the fact is, Richmond probably makes the most sense for Stone given the really good highway and railroad access. 

 

Would still be a disappointment not to get the brewery after all the buzz that had gone into it.

[metalman]

Agreed. They're just staging their battle plan.

[brikkman]

At this point, I'd be somewhat happy with the rumor that another posted put on the last page where Richmond gets the big brewery, but Norfolk gets a smaller auxiliary brewery and restaurant. Things are moving quickly in Richmond to the point where it looks like that's where Stone is heading. And the fact is, Richmond probably makes the most sense for Stone given the really good highway and railroad access. 

 

Would still be a disappointment not to get the brewery after all the buzz that had gone into it.

Can someone help me understand.

Norfolk has access to Ports and rail.... wouldn't it be a more viable option for Norfolk considering we have both options to receive raw materials and ship/rail product?

[carolinaboy]

1. I love Norfolk and wish badly for Stone to choose Norfolk.

2. If Stone chooses Richmond though you really couldn't blame them.

Richmond has a bit more national name recognition

I-95 corridor

Rail/interstate infrastructure

Closer to DC/Philly/NY

They don't seem like a NASCAR type of marketer but if they are then RIR is a plus

Probably a little more per capita income in the area (dsiposable)

Several colleges/universitits

 

Norfolk has a lot going for it too, not trying to downgrade it. Just thinking out loud.

[mikeas]

I agree Richmond has the advantage on interstate access and proximity to the North East.

 

My guess is Richmond gets the large production brewery and Harbor Park gets a Stone World Bistro and Gardens like the one at Liberty Station in San Diego.  This bistro is still a brewery just more of a brew pub versus a production facility.  One potential negative is that this place would most definitely pull people away from local brewery tasting rooms and established beer halls like Bier Garden and The Birch.

[HRVT]

Can someone help me understand.

Norfolk has access to Ports and rail.... wouldn't it be a more viable option for Norfolk considering we have both options to receive raw materials and ship/rail product?

With the new brewery Stone is building in Germany, the port access isn't as important.

[wrldcoupe4]

Isn't this brewery specifically for the eastern half of the US though?

[vdogg]

http://www.richmondbizsense.com/2014/08/20/second-local-site-vies-for-calif-brewery/

I'm gonna take us back down to defcon 2. This appears to be a bit of smoke and mirrors on the part of Thailmer.

Thalhimer Realty Partners has begun the process of converting those three buildings into 263 apartments, as originally planned, and the firm’s Vice President Matt Raggi said demolition is more or less complete on all three of the warehouses.

He declined to comment on the potential for a brewery beyond what was included in the special use permit application.

“While the SUP, if approved would afford us the flexibility to put a brewery on the site if a good opportunity arose, for now we have no firm plans for one,” Raggi said in an email.

Also, be sure to attend the rally on the 5th. I know I'll be doing my part.

http://www.altdaily.com/features/news/7074-first-friday-downtown-to-be-rally-to-bring-stone-brewing-to-norfolk

[Norva757]

I hope this isn't another one of those let downs that we have become known for