Orlando Fashion Square [Renovation in Progress]

[codypet]

Unicorp?  That means whatever's built, won't have enough parking.

[sunshine]

6 minutes ago, codypet said:

Unicorp?  That means whatever's built, won't have enough parking.

Perfect....thats a plus for me

[JFW657]

34 minutes ago, sunshine said:

Perfect....thats a plus for me

Why?

Inadequate parking = people staying away.

Not the best recipe for success, I would think.

[HankStrong]

39 minutes ago, sunshine said:

Perfect....thats a plus for me

I understand and agree with distaste for sprawl, but I have no concept of your brand.

You want them to build and fail?  So blight is good?

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, W7edwin said:

I dont know how people ironically love that place.. the stores themselves maybe but the set-up? ehhh

I hear ya.  think back to when Waterford Lakes TC was built in the late '90's early 2000's.  It would've been an enclosed mall had Oviedo marketplace not been built so close.  But, back then, it's layout was a little different that the typical strip centers; there, and across the street.  Then, they built on that design/trend with more improvements and we got Fowler's Grove; a lesser inspired design got us The Loop & The Loop West.  Before WLTC, all we had were run down strip centers except for the Stein Mart Plaza at Bumby. 

It just stuck...  I never go there except maybe 1x/year if even that.

[jgardnerucf]

St. John's TC Jax.

[sunshine]

If the product is good, people will find way to come.... Uber, Lyft, train, bike, walk or park many blocks away.

 

[spenser1058]

2 hours ago, jrs2 said:

I hear ya.  think back to when Waterford Lakes TC was built in the late '90's early 2000's.  It would've been an enclosed mall had Oviedo marketplace not been built so close.  But, back then, it's layout was a little different that the typical strip centers; there, and across the street.  Then, they built on that design/trend with more improvements and we got Fowler's Grove; a lesser inspired design got us The Loop & The Loop West.  Before WLTC, all we had were run down strip centers except for the Stein Mart Plaza at Bumby. 

It just stuck...  I never go there except maybe 1x/year if even that.

Waterford Lakes was originally supposed to be a mall. Then Rouse jumped in with Oviedo and the arms race began. There was a struggle initially to get department store anchors (oh, how times have changed) and Simon decided to do an end run with a  power center. Their bet was that whoever got out of the ground first would win.

They were right (it never pays to bet against Simon when it comes to malls and shopping centers).

As it turned out, by the time Oviedo finally started lining up anchors, WL was the default East Orange shopping destination and department stores no longer mattered much. 

[spenser1058]

As the retail apocalypse trundles on, JCPenney announced its first wave of upcoming closures.

No word yet if the Fashion Square JCP is on the list but it would leave another big hole in the moribund center if it is.

Compared to some Penney stores in BFE, OFS may still be doing relatively well. Nevertheless, like Sears before it, the real estate may be more valuable for some other purpose.

https://amp.businessinsider.com/jcpenney-gap-and-victorias-secret-announce-300-store-closures-2019-2

From Business Insider 

[orlandoguy]

The sad part is, I read the same post earlier today and thought to myself- for a good 2-3 minutes- “Is there still a JCP at OFS?” Eek.

Interesting that JCP doesn’t have any plans to release the list of stores to be shuttered.

[ragerunner]

The new retail system is going to continue to take down the old guard.

[HankStrong]

26 minutes ago, ragerunner said:

The new retail system is going to continue to take down the old guard.

Welcome to the forums.

[TRENCH]

On ‎3‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 6:43 PM, orlandoguy said:

The sad part is, I read the same post earlier today and thought to myself- for a good 2-3 minutes- “Is there still a JCP at OFS?” Eek.
 

I honestly thought it already closed in 2017 lol 

[spenser1058]

Chuck Whittall to demolish Fashion Square?

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-bz-orlando-fashion-square-mall-redevelopment-20190426-story.html

From the Sentinel 

Yes, please. Send the retail survivors downtown where they belong.

Edited April 26, 2019 by spenser1058

[HankStrong]

Quote

“We're going to want to redevelop it into experiential mixed-use lifestyle center, including mid, high-rise apartments, office space, a movie theater, bowling alley, restaurants and a hotel,” Whittall said. “Our development will be an outdoor, open air, entertainment destination.’’

While that is a word, (and one that I had to look up because I couldn't remember exactly what it meant) I  thought that couldn't be what they are trying to build.

Although, I googled it and it seems like that's one of those new buzzword things.   Like they want people to experience things and learn from it?

MW says:

Quote

Recent Examples on the Web

Seeing retail becoming more community oriented and more experiential.— Asia Milia Ware, Teen Vogue, "Moj Mahdara on Cardi B, Inclusive Beauty, and Beautycon’s Legacy," 5 Apr. 2019 The Amazon effect has already put pressure on big box stores to become more efficient and experiential.— Patrick Sisson, Curbed, "Amazon is coming for the small corner store," 2 Oct. 2018

I hate buzzwords.

[spenser1058]

16 hours ago, HankStrong said:

While that is a word, (and one that I had to look up because I couldn't remember exactly what it meant) I  thought that couldn't be what they are trying to build.

Although, I googled it and it seems like that's one of those new buzzword things.   Like they want people to experience things and learn from it?

MW says:

I hate buzzwords.

The funny thing is that is what the big department stores originally were. The owners like John Wanamaker created beautiful buildings you wanted to be in (Wanamaker’s even has a huge pipe  organ to this day - it’s now a Macy’s  in downtown Philly). There were splendid restaurants for ladies who lunched, book signings (like the one at Davison’s in Atlanta with the author of Gone With the Wind), fashion shows and oh! the departments.

Amazingly, they made sure there were things like “Filene’s Basement” where even the lowest-paid workers could come and enjoy these grand retail palaces.

When the suburbs came, the department stores opened miniature versions in the new malls so you could pick up things (also back then credit cards were only good for that chain so customers tended to be brand loyal.)

By the time the ‘70’s arrived, a lot of the splendid downtown department stores had survived the Depression, rationing during the war and the lack of materials afterward. They “Eisenhowered” the exteriors to make them look modern but the interiors were falling apart.

The entrepreneurs who invented them had died off and they merged into corporations run by bean counters. They closed departments that were marginally profitable and, after a while, you never really knew what they still sold until all that was left (to JFW’s horror) was women’s clothing.

When the Fair Trade Acts were repealed, discounters opened with no frills to sell things cheaply.

The accountants, who had no clue about how to market and sell things, laid off all the experienced folks and replaced them with minimum wage boomers who knew nothing.

Eventually, all department stores became were racks of (mostly women’s)clothes.

Is it any wonder Walmart and then Amazon thrived?

So, all of a sudden someone got the bright idea that if you provide experiences (like in the beginning), people might come and shop with you again. It might cost a little more but it would be worth it to have fun.

Truly, we’re back to the future.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2019 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

Some video from WFTV:

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/redevelopment-plan-orlandos-fashion-square-mall-could-soon-be-demolished/943764079

 

[spenser1058]

Hank, this article from Orlando Weekly a while back suggests an “experiential” experience at OFS has already come and gone with the rise and fall of the bowling alley (which I missed entirely- oh,darn - serves ‘em right for messing with Colonial Lanes!):

https://www.orlandoweekly.com/orlando/fashion-square-mall-is-too-big-to-live-and-too-big-to-die-what-does-that-mean-for-its-future/Content?oid=15588019&media=AMP+HTML

[HankStrong]

So fancy!  I'm sad I missed the next big thing.

[JFW657]

Seems to me that, instead of demolishing everything (except Macy's) they'd want to keep the larger buildings where stores like JCPenney and Dillard's are located, and just demo all the connecting concourse areas. Convert all of that to the outdoor landscaped space with the fountains, etc.

Why knock down those perfectly good larger buildings just to put up new ones in slightly different locations?

[spenser1058]

2 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Seems to me that, instead of demolishing everything (except Macy's) they'd want to keep the larger buildings where stores like JCPenney and Dillard's are located, and just demo all the connecting concourse areas. Convert all of that to the outdoor landscaped space with the fountains, etc.

Why knock down those perfectly good larger buildings just to put up new ones in slightly different locations?

When they tore down Colonial Plaza, they kept the old ‘56 Belk’s and the ‘73 Belk Lindsey but leveled the much nicer ‘83 Ivey’s. I never quite got the logic.

 

[JFW657]

Just now, spenser1058 said:

When they tore down Colonial Plaza, they kept the old ‘56 Belk’s and the ‘73 Belk Lindsey but leveled the much nicer ‘83 Ivey’s. I never quite got the logic.

I guess the Iveys building didn't fit into the overall site plan, but I still think it was a waste to demo it.

Design the site plan around the buildings that are worth keeping.

A friend of mine worked on that building. Did some of the masonry.

[Jernigan]

I’m not sure how much the City can control but if they are going to tear down and rebuild it would be insane to not have Cady Way at the least be a design consideration and at best be showcased like in Winter Garden.   

[Jvest55]

FS needs to be completely leveled in order to make it look like something people actually want to go to. It'll be better for the long term. 

[Uncommon]

https://bungalower.com/2019/04/29/unicorp-to-demo-fashion-square-mall/

Looks like demolition is one step closer to happening. A deposit has been made to demo the entire building. That’s great news, because simply remodeling won’t work; it needs to all come down. The article states that negotiations will soon be in place to jettison Macy’s and JC Penny, two of the tenants currently NOT struggling, with the hope that they can lure them back after demolition and rebuilding. I hope they can be lured back, as I think it would be very cool to have shopping alongside apartments, hotels, bowling, restaurants, and a movie theatre. If they add a grocery store, Fashion Square could literally be a one-stop shop for just about everything.

I’m sort of new to this whole urban mindset thing. Do you all agree that this new Fashion Square would be a net positive? Or is it just a beefed up version of Waterford Lakes (which I love, but most everyone here hates)?

Edited April 30, 2019 by Uncommon