Orlando Fashion Square [Renovation in Progress]

[Universe_Explorer]

Are they taking away parking at the trailhead for Cady way? It looks like outparcels and sidewalks where there currently is parking.  I realize this is the lesser-used portion of the trail, but that would be annoying (maybe I'm the only one who uses it weekly...)

[orlandoguy]

This article is mainly about Winter Park Square, but there's a bit at the end regarding the redevelopment of Fashion Square Mall. Note the new schedule estimate for completion.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/consumer/os-cfb-cover-whole-foods-20161106-story.html

[spenser1058]

I didn't have a chance to post on this when it first was announced, but it is a bit sad that we're losing the last of our 1960's-era big box department stores with the closure of the Fashion Square Sears. It and the West Colonial Monkey Ward (now the OCSO), along with the Colonial Plaza Jordan Marsh, the downtown and WP Mall JC Penney and the WP Ivey's all had great open plan layouts that were fascinating for a little kid like me.

I'm a little envious of Tampa, which still has its 60's-era mall, West Shore Plaza, while our oldest now is Fashion Square, which opened in 1973 and had a very different feel to it compared to the older plazas (not to mention that OFS developer Leonard Farber tended to build on the cheap).

[metal93]

Yeah it's a shame that we're losing them but I'm still excited for what could become of it. There was a charm to those old shopping centers that newer ones didn't quite grasp. I'm generally opposed to suburban sprawl, but despite the mall being the ultimate poster child of sprawl, I'm kind of sad to see them going away at the rate they are, particularly the ones that are 50 years and older.

Fashion Square opened in 1973? That's hardly older than the mall around my area (Altamonte Mall) which opened in 1974.

[spenser1058]

Sears was a standalone opening in '62 or '63. The mall was tacked onto it a decade later. That brought the introduction of two new department stores to the region, Burdines and Robinson's, which were replicated a year later in Altamonte. Then we went 12 years until Florida Mall finally opened in 1986. Meanwhile, Colonial Plaza added the South Mall in '73 and the Ivey's add-on up front in '83. Ironically, DeBartolo bought the land for Florida Mall long before OFS or Altamonte came along but never could get it out of the ground.

[JFW657]

I remember when Florida Mall first opened. The center of the concourse near the food court was designed to be reminiscent of Main St. USA at Disney World. The store fronts were like small individual buildings in a village or a small town square. Sort of gingerbread. The entire mall was like that, actually. Off the main concourse in either direction, there were little "side streets" with faux shingled roof overhangs etc.

I liked it. It was my favorite local mall. Sometime around the early 90's, they built a free standing Universal Studios store in the middle of the "town square" that took up the entire open area and kind of spoiled the effect.

The current redesign is IMO, just boring.

One other thing I've noticed about malls in general, is that they have become for the most part, women's shopping havens. The majority of the stores are women's clothing, jewelry and shoe stores with the occasional men's clothing store and a sneaker store or two. 

Gone are the general interest stores like sporting goods, toy and hobby stores, music stores, electronics stores, book stores, computer game and software stores, etc, etc.

I never even go to them anymore.

That said, as much as I also hate to see Sears go, I am looking forward to that new home improvement store going into their space.

 

Edited November 20, 2016 by JFW657

[jrs2]

On November 19, 2016 at 8:13 AM, spenser1058 said:

I didn't have a chance to post on this when it first was announced, but it is a bit sad that we're losing the last of our 1960's-era big box department stores with the closure of the Fashion Square Sears. It and the West Colonial Monkey Ward (now the OCSO), along with the Colonial Plaza Jordan Marsh, the downtown and WP Mall JC Penney and the WP Ivey's all had great open plan layouts that were fascinating for a little kid like me.

I'm a little envious of Tampa, which still has its 60's-era mall, West Shore Plaza, while our oldest now is Fashion Square, which opened in 1973 and had a very different feel to it compared to the older plazas (not to mention that OFS developer Leonard Farber tended to build on the cheap).

My friend, If you want '60's era department stores, travel no further than Daytona's Volusia Mall.  The JCPenny's is untouched since the turn of the decade ('60's to '70's).  Same with the others... Sears, former Ivey's, May Cohen's, Belk's, etc.  There are 6 dept stores there.  The Penny's is the most classic looking one I think, gravel-like facade and all.

[JFW657]

Kind of a long way to drive just to get your old school mall fix.... just sayin'.  ; ^ )

 

 

[jgardnerucf]

With Tanger opening, Volusia Mall is doneso.     That asphalt oasis of parking lot screams redevelopment. But the Nascar boys beat them to the punch with their own development.

[JFW657]

It'll probably be some kind of combination indoor/outdoor flea market in a couple of years.

[jrs2]

I think you're right about Tanger, except that I was there Monday night around 6:30pm and it was dead, like most places on a cold Monday night.

The best thing Volusia Mall did was develop a few outparcels (IHOP, Bahama Breeze, Olive Garden, Cheddars) and bring in H&M.  There's one at Tanger as well.  They also stuck a Sephora inside of JCP (or JCP did).  They should develop the remaining outparcels as restaurants to get more rent and more people on property.

[orlandoguy]

Well this is certainly a vote of confidence in the proposed changes at OFS.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/brinkmann-on-business/os-fashion-square-offices-20161228-story.html

[JFW657]

Sounds nice for the Fashion Square area, but if these folks redevelop and upgrade the Koger Center with Maitland Center style office buildings, how will it affect the already soft downtown office market and future high rise office building construction?

Between Koger and Maitland Centers, it may be decades before we see another downtown office building go up.

 

[spenser1058]

I wonder if the potential clients for downtown high rises or office park mid to low rises are normally the same. Does anyone know?

[orlandoguy]

I wonder if the potential clients for downtown high rises or office park mid to low rises are normally the same. Does anyone know?

OBJ reports the existing suites at the office park range from 800-21,000 square feet. I'm far from an expert but I have to imagine everything on the lower end of that range- were they located in a CBD high rise- are spaces that would be cost-prohibitive for most businesses that would need those smaller footprints (with the possible exception of law firms).

Sounds like the next developer for a CBD tower that would have the best shot at success is with a development that has high square footage in continuous blocks, since that seems to be the impediment to landing larger tenants that can instead find what they're looking for in the 'burbs.

Agree with you, though: would love to hear from someone with more knowledge on this subject.

[JFW657]

It was just reported on channel 9 news that the Fashion Square property is in foreclosure. Current owners are behind in payments to the tune of around 400k and haven't paid last year's taxes yet.

Quote

Fashion Square Mall under foreclosure after lender claims $42 million loan default (link)

Updated: Jan 4, 2017 - 11:31 AM

Foreclosure proceedings were initiated against Fashion Square Mall this week after a lender claimed the facility’s owners defaulted on a nearly $42 million loan.

Bancorp Bank filed a foreclosure complaint in Orlando federal court Tuesday claiming that UP Development failed to make loan payments in July, August and September, totaling more than $400,000.

Additionally, the filing claims 2015 property taxes of more than $923,000 had not been paid for Fashion Square Mall, causing a lien to be placed on the property.

*********************** END OF QUOTED ARTICLE**************************

Not looking good for any kind of cool, interesting mixed use project now.

I'm guessing it will probably sit there abandoned for a couple of years or so before being bulldozed to make way for yet another generic, ugly, el-cheapo apartment complex.

I hope I'm wrong.

 

Edited January 4, 2017 by JFW657

[JFW657]

I really hate this crappy forum software UP is using.

You can't even do something as simple as putting a quote in a post without it screwing it up for you!!!! 

Edited January 4, 2017 by JFW657

[Mark Baratelli]

For what it's worth: I wrote the mall about this article because I do a food truck event once a month and they told me I have nothing to worry about. 

[Jernigan]

Do you believe them more or less than you believe Ten10 telling people there is nothing to worry about?

[popsiclebrandon]

Foreclosure is going to take a while and UP has some big developments around town. I would think they work this out or their ability to get financing on other projects would be in jeopardy. Still not a good sign.

[Mark Baratelli]

http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2017/01/04/fashion-square-mall-reportedly-under-foreclosure.html

OBJ: UP Fieldgate rejected the lawsuit's claims in a prepared statement and instead pointed its finger back at Bancorp. "The allegations released are not an accurate reflection of the issues involved," UP Fieldgate said in a prepared statement. "UP Fieldgate contends that it is, in fact, Bancorp that has defaulted on its obligations and breached our contract and we will litigate this suit accordingly."

[Jernigan]

Long story short, hotel won't be replacing that crater anytime soon 

[JFW657]

It looks to be just about the right size for a 7 Eleven though....

[spenser1058]

A macy's press release from January 4 indicates 68 of the 100 stores to close. Oviedo Marketplace seems to be on the list but not OFS so far. Stay tuned.

 

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=84477&p=irol-newsArticle&cat=news&id=2234057

Edited January 5, 2017 by spenser1058

[veryamusing]

On ‎12‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 3:35 PM, orlandoguy said:

OBJ reports the existing suites at the office park range from 800-21,000 square feet. I'm far from an expert but I have to imagine everything on the lower end of that range- were they located in a CBD high rise- are spaces that would be cost-prohibitive for most businesses that would need those smaller footprints (with the possible exception of law firms).

Sounds like the next developer for a CBD tower that would have the best shot at success is with a development that has high square footage in continuous blocks, since that seems to be the impediment to landing larger tenants that can instead find what they're looking for in the 'burbs.

Agree with you, though: would love to hear from someone with more knowledge on this subject.

Not sure if this link will work, but the website 42floors has office space available for lease/sublease in Orlando's CBD: https://42floors.com/office-space/us/fl/orlando?utf8=✓&region_ids=39070  Most of it seems fairly small, maybe 5,000 SF on average?

For example, Lincoln Plaza is nearly 250,000 SF across 16 stories, with typical floor area of around 15,000.  Yet they list the smallest space at 1,955 SF and the largest 22,819; in total over 46,000 SF vacant.  Top five tenants: 32,526; 15,381; 15,381; 9,941; 8,851.

From the landlord's perspective, it seems great to sign a tenant who intends to occupy an entire floor plate or even just a lot of contiguous space, even if they have to offer a lower lease rate or expensive tenant build-out allowance.  But when that tenant downsizes or vacates the space in five or ten years, the pool of potential replacements is shallow.  CNL did great to get Red Lobster; but how many other businesses can you think of that aren't already downtown and want to relocate their regional or corporate HQ to a high-rent CBD office tower?  My thinking is very few, which induces the landlord to demise the space.

There are also economic forces to consider, like the increasing prevalence of remote work, co-working and even the presence of outfits like Regus which provide executive suites on-demand.

I would not be surprised if the long-term trend is fewer high-rise office towers; really, fewer high-rise anything.  Density can be more than tall towers in a park (Corbu); it can be a cohesive urban fabric...