Orlando Fashion Square [Renovation in Progress]

[codypet]

On 1/5/2017 at 8:11 AM, spenser1058 said:

A macy's press release from January 4 indicates 68 of the 100 stores to close. Oviedo Marketplace seems to be on the list but not OFS so far. Stay tuned.

 

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=84477&p=irol-newsArticle&cat=news&id=2234057

Wow!  Did not expect Oviedo Marketplace!  Isn't Seminole Town Center their next closest Macy's?   We all know Sears at Oviedo can't be far behind.  Half of the STC Sears is already gone and so is OFS.  I overheard a conversation at STC that Altamonte Mall Sears may have numbered days as well.

[metal93]

10 hours ago, veryamusing said:

I would not be surprised if the long-term trend is fewer high-rise office towers; really, fewer high-rise anything.  Density can be more than tall towers in a park (Corbu); it can be a cohesive urban fabric...

If Orlando continues to grow at a fast pace, even bringing more companies to the CBD, I wouldn't be surprised if only a couple, at best a handful, of office towers go up within the next 20 years. It looks like the majority of high rises are going to continue being residential. I've always hated the tower in the park concept, favor of 4-6 story buildings right up to the street, and hope every last empty/parking lot in the CBD gets filled in eventually. It would be great if Orlando got a +500 ft skyscraper though.

9 hours ago, codypet said:

Wow!  Did not expect Oviedo Marketplace!  Isn't Seminole Town Center their next closest Macy's?   We all know Sears at Oviedo can't be far behind.  Half of the STC Sears is already gone and so is OFS.  I overheard a conversation at STC that Altamonte Mall Sears may have numbered days as well.

The Altamonte Macy's is in danger of going as well? It may be my bias for living in the Altamonte area, but I always thought of the Altamonte Mall as being one of the more robust malls in the metro area outside of those in the I-Drive/tourist areas.

[JFW657]

3 hours ago, metal93 said:

The Altamonte Macy's is in danger of going as well? It may be my bias for living in the Altamonte area, but I always thought of the Altamonte Mall as being one of the more robust malls in the metro area outside of those in the I-Drive/tourist areas.

I never even go to malls anymore. They have basically become shopping centers for women. Aside from the Sears tool/hardware and electronics dept., there is very little of interest to me in any of them anymore.

One clothing store after another after another only broken up by the occasional shoe store or jewelry store or fashion accessory store, etc, etc. Maybe the occasional household and kitchen gizmo type store or a Radio Shack, but who goes there?

[spenser1058]

I was a mall rat, eagerly anticipating each new mall that came online. I read about all the developers. I worked at both Ivey's and later Brooks Brothers in malls. I much preferred to buy paint and stuff at Sears long after Home Depot had taken over those categories.

That said, it's been years since I've set foot in a mall (or any retailer, really, other than Publix.) I know my sizes on the BB and LLBean websites, and the Target-type stuff I just order from amazon. When I need things like paint, I do go to Miller's in WP. I always said that I would happily buy from any retailer that came downtown, but in Thomas Chatmon's Retail Desert, it looks like that isn't happening.

If I'm any indication, it's no wonder the midpoint malls are on their way out.

 

[spenser1058]

Another blow to midprice mall retail:

The Limited is closing all of its 250 stores

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2017/01/06/the-limited-is-closing-all-of-its-250-stores/?utm_term=.8d262d76b100

I think last time I looked, The Limited at OFS was one of the few dwindling national chains still represented.

Edited January 7, 2017 by spenser1058

[orlandoguy]

I was a mall rat, eagerly anticipating each new mall that came online. I read about all the developers. I worked at both Ivey's and later Brooks Brothers in malls. I much preferred to buy paint and stuff at Sears long after Home Depot had taken over those categories.
That said, it's been years since I've set foot in a mall (or any retailer, really, other than Publix.) I know my sizes on the BB and LLBean websites, and the Target-type stuff I just order from amazon. When I need things like paint, I do go to Miller's in WP. I always said that I would happily buy from any retailer that came downtown, but in Thomas Chatmon's Retail Desert, it looks like that isn't happening.
If I'm any indication, it's no wonder the midpoint malls are on their way out.
 

I live about a mile from Fashion Square, but only go there about three times a year to go to the Origins inside Macy's. (The only other one near DTO is on Park Ave and I was turned off of WP many years ago after working on the Avenue for too long.) Their men's apparel section is abysmal and frequently features either empty shelves and racks, or an over abundance of messy sale racks that I just don't have the patience to wade through. The fixtures are in bad shape and it's generally just a dated shopping experience.

I am excited about the prospect of Orchard opening at OFS since I'm not much of a do-it-yourselfer but do have occasional needs since I own my home. Also, Dick's has come in handy a few times.

Otherwise, I frequent Millenia regularly. Based on retail trends over the last two decades, I must be in the minority because I like being able to hit 3-6 of my favorite stores in one fell swoop without having to worry about getting rained on or sweaty like at the newer town center-style shopping plazas. That said, I'm familiar enough with navigating the CBD (read: parking) that if any of the destination stores at Millenia (Crate & Barrel, Bloomingdales, Apple, The Container Store ... even Z Gallerie and IKEA) were to have a location in the CBD, I'd gladly shop there because of the proximity to home.

My kingdom to avoid I-4 traffic and the tourists ...

[JFW657]

I used to enjoy visiting the old original Florida Mall. It was my favorite. The reason why I liked it was the kind of Disneyesque, "Main St. USA" theme they employed in the interior design. It was fun to catch a little buzz in the car then go inside and stroll around people watching and enjoying the ambience created by the interior architecture. And of course, there was always the obligatory trip to the food court and stops at the little walk up cookie and ice cream type treat shops that used to be located away from the food court in various spots along the main concconcourse.

And back then, there was a much better variety of different types of stores to browse. Gift stores, sporting goods, various specialty stores, etc., as opposed to the 90% women's fashion boutiques that characterize modern day malls.

I think it's time they all just drop any pretense of being anything more than what they've become and refer to themselves as what they are... fashion and clothing centers.

[alex]

On 1/7/2017 at 8:57 AM, orlandoguy said:

Otherwise, I frequent Millenia regularly. Based on retail trends over the last two decades, I must be in the minority because I like being able to hit 3-6 of my favorite stores in one fell swoop without having to worry about getting rained on or sweaty like at the newer town center-style shopping plazas. 

I don't get why open-air malls are so popular in Florida. Our heat and rain (to me at least) are worse than cold and snow up north. I'll brave the weather if it's a cool urban place (Orange Ave, Park Ave, or someplace like Miami) but Waterford Lakes just isn't worth the trouble--not to mention the traffic.

Fashion Square Mall either needs to go full-urban, like some of the plans we've seen with apartments and main streets, or be razed in favor of extending Baldwin Park. 

[JFW657]

I wouldn't mind seeing a replication of WP Village/SODO.

[sunshine]

Waterford Lakes is the worst American urbanization form, please don't put it so close to my house. Sodo is ok until it comes to the shops that front Orange Ave.

It needs to go fully urbanized. Like midtown-miami

[John Hargrove]

Would love to see it redeveloped as an extension of Baldwin Park. Not sure we need a mall at all. Build a new neighborhood. Downtown could use it.

 

[JFW657]

54 minutes ago, castorvx said:

Would love to see it redeveloped as an extension of Baldwin Park. Not sure we need a mall at all. Build a new neighborhood. Downtown could use it.

 

That would be OK but it would still be nice to include something to draw non residents in too.

Retail/restaurant/entertainment etc. 

[neoanderz]

The mall is in a prime location for retail.  I think it could support mixed use but full residential in that spot doesnt make sense to me.  That is really not my concern though.  Im worried that the mall is going to get slowly picked away at and we will be left with a bunch of stand-alone big boxes each surrounded by a parking lot.  That already appears to be happening with the Dick's Sporting Goods and soon to be Orchard Supply.  Don't get me wrong.  I like those new stores but I dont like the format.  I wish they would come up with a comprehensive plan to properly redevelop the whole thing instead of doing it piecemeal how they seem to be doing it now.

[codypet]

On 1/7/2017 at 8:57 AM, orlandoguy said:

I am excited about the prospect of Orchard opening at OFS since I'm not much of a do-it-yourselfer but do have occasional needs since I own my home. Also, Dick's has come in handy a few times.

 

I live in Como and I'm dreading what Orchard will likely do to ACE next door.

[JFW657]

3 minutes ago, codypet said:

I live in Como and I'm dreading what Orchard will likely do to ACE next door.

Did you mean SODO?

If so, I think that Ace will do OK. There's another Ace owned by the same people at Curry Ford & Conway with which they manage to co-exist. I'm guessing Orchard might tend to serve the residents of Hampton Park, Audubon Park, Baldwin Park, South Winter Park and the Semoran Blvd area down to Azalea Park.

If they take business away from anyone, I would think it would be the Home Depot on E Colonial and the Lowe's on Semoran at Lk Margaret.

[popsiclebrandon]

Retail is interesting there as Baldwin retail has been a huge failure. Caddyshanks is closing next week saying their rent is crazy. Adding more inventory to that area might just finish off Baldwin.

[JFW657]

3 hours ago, popsiclebrandon said:

Retail is interesting there as Baldwin retail has been a huge failure. Caddyshanks is closing next week saying their rent is crazy. Adding more inventory to that area might just finish off Baldwin.

I think the retail and restaurant in Baldwin is kind of a waste of space anyway. They ought to just convert it to some other use like law offices or something. I can't imagine wanting to go to Baldwin Park to go shopping or dining anyway. Sure, it's nice for the people who live there, but for the rest of town, why bother?

I'd rather visit Fashion Square any day. 

Whatever they end up doing at OFS, I hope they keep the name.

[orlandoguy]

Did you mean SODO?

There is an Ace in Coytown, too.

[JFW657]

36 minutes ago, orlandoguy said:

There is an Ace in Coytown, too.

Ah,  OK.

I saw the words "next door", so figured he had an autocorrect moment.

[bqknight]

14 hours ago, JFW657 said:

I think the retail and restaurant in Baldwin is kind of a waste of space anyway. They ought to just convert it to some other use like law offices or something. I can't imagine wanting to go to Baldwin Park to go shopping or dining anyway. Sure, it's nice for the people who live there, but for the rest of town, why bother?

I'd rather visit Fashion Square any day. 

Whatever they end up doing at OFS, I hope they keep the name.

I don't mind dining there. Just went to Osprey this past weekend and it was nice, I enjoy the Baldwin Park feel. HOWEVER - I don't get shopping. 

[alex]

On 1/10/2017 at 4:03 PM, popsiclebrandon said:

Retail is interesting there as Baldwin retail has been a huge failure. Caddyshanks is closing next week saying their rent is crazy. Adding more inventory to that area might just finish off Baldwin.

I'm hopeful for retail in Baldwin Park. With hundreds of new units added over the past year, the neighborhood is just now getting to its planned density. If they can get a few more destination restaurants--like Osprey or even Five Guys--it would attract more outside people. 

I think it's been mentioned before, but there are two major flaws in BP retail. First, it's hidden inside the neighborhood with no car and little pedestrian traffic. (The Fashion Square parcel doesn't have this problem.) Second, one owner/manager controls all the rents, meaning there is no price competition and rents are artificially high because there is no incentive to lower them. (At Fashion Square, there are a few different owners and I imagine mall rents are at an all-time low.) 

[JFW657]

"Hidden" is putting it mildly, too.

The street layout in that place is kind of a confusing rat's maze...

Makes the thought of going there and trying to find anything, including a place to park, less appealing than going to a mall where it's all right there, with no driving and searching.

[metal93]

Aside from parking and high rents, Baldwin Park's retail troubles are directly connected to the way it was designed - the disorienting winding streets, with really only a few direct routes, the retail clustered in a single spot and tucked away, surrounded by homes. The designers of Baldwin Park tried too hard to make it fee like its own little town, isolated from,  instead of integrating with Orlando around it. Perhaps Baldwin Park should have just been allowed to develop more organically instead of artificially.

I do too hope for its success though.

[Universe_Explorer]

I don't think the Baldwin Park retail was ever meant to be a destination - it was designed specifically for those who lived in the neighborhood - likely with artificially high hopes that they alone could support the businesses.  I've always been under the impression that the rent for these locations was astronomically high, since even the places that seem to be doing good business eventually shut down (and later all say the rent was what killed them).  I absolutely think the neighborhood could support a handful of good restaurant/bars, and the typically American necessities (drycleaner, pizza shop, ice cream shop, nail salon, hair place, grocery store, pharmacy), and it basically does.  The restaurant and bar concepts that rotate in and out, but that's not unusual. It's the other random retail shops that never seem to make sense.  

That said, I think organic growth of these things is always better, and the success of audobon park, college park, and Ivanhoe/Virginia demonstrate that.

[codypet]

On 1/10/2017 at 3:47 PM, JFW657 said:

Did you mean SODO?

If so, I think that Ace will do OK. There's another Ace owned by the same people at Curry Ford & Conway with which they manage to co-exist. I'm guessing Orchard might tend to serve the residents of Hampton Park, Audubon Park, Baldwin Park, South Winter Park and the Semoran Blvd area down to Azalea Park.

If they take business away from anyone, I would think it would be the Home Depot on E Colonial and the Lowe's on Semoran at Lk Margaret.

Yea those people own the ACE hardware in Coytown.  I know they had toyed with the idea of going into the Winn Dixie spot, but couldn't get out of the lease for the old spot.  I think if Orchard is moving where Sears is, the ACE with its limited space and selection will be doomed.   The other two ACE's (Sodo and Curry Ford) I'm sure will be fine.

Edited January 17, 2017 by codypet