Tallahassee Convention Hotel

[Florida]

MARRIOTT HOTEL AND TOWERS

Tallahassee, Florida

The Marriott Hotel and Towers in Tallahassee is a 325-room Marriott Hotel with 97 condominiums on the top 10 floors of the hotel. The hotel will have 13,500 square feet of meeting space.

HOTEL

-325 Rooms

-Key features Include:

-Spa and health club

-Covered parking

-Business center

-Full-service restaurant (breakfast, lunch and dinner)

-Separate steak restaurant (serving lunch and dinner)

-Lounge/Sports bar

-Concierge Service

CONDO:

-97 Units Occcupying 10 Levels

-800 to 3,000 square feet

-Available maid service

-Room service

-Covered parking

The hotel is adjacent to the Civic Center in downtown Tallahassee. Construction is to begin in July, 2005 and is to be completed in the spring of 2007.

[Florida]

There was later an agreement to moveforward with this project, but it is now very confusing where this thing sits. The newspaper says Talks have come to a screaching halt, yet in the same article it leaves to door open to the possibility that the project is still underway... I say the city gets a new developer to build this hotel because this group doesn't seem to have it all together.

[Urban_Legend]

This sounds like some serious baby-mama drama going down. I'd like to see this building get built.

[Florida]

I feel ya.... you know whats odd? This developer initially propsed less than 10 condominium units as part of the hotel in his initial propsal. Now he's seeking nearly 100, and wants to use monies from the purchases of the condos to finance the hotel construction. Kinda like a bait and switch almost. I hope this guy and those responsible for this parcel of land understand each day this project is delayed they are costing this city great opportunities.

[bobliocatt]

Using deposit money for financing condo construction is pretty common nowdays. I'm sure when this project originally was proposed (nearly a decade ago), there was no urban condo market in Tally. Now that downtown living is cool again, their plans were revised to fit today's demographics. Anyway, this sounds like a big mess. I'd be suprised if this thing were ever build.

[Florida]

The idea of building condos is cool. But this was supossed to be a HOTEL project not a Condo project. The builder has lost his focus which is why the Review Board needs to find another developer.

[bobliocatt]

^Sounds like a mixed use project. The hotel concept is still there. Its very common in larger and denser cities to find luxury hotels that include condos and street level retail. Tallahassee should be proud that a development like this has been proposed within its borders. It will only add to the future vibrancy of downtown and Gaines Street.

[stjoe]

It wasn't meant to be a mixed use project. The COT is loaded with new condos. The COT and FSU were looking for almost a small convention type hotel which is something the area does not have. Thus the civic center location. The developer has wasted 8 years trying to change the rules of the game. The board bent, but will not break, not should they. They went from 10 condos to 47 for the guy. Now he wants 97 after wasting 8 years. They need to move on.

[bobliocatt]

At this point, it may be best to scrap the plan and the developer and start over. Are there any other development groups waiting in the wings?

[stjoe]

Not to my knowledge. The COT is very bad with doing anything like this. This is just one more example. It shouldn't take 8 years just to figure out things are bad...let alone to build the thing. The word is the developer is going to start suing. So basically not only will this not get built....but it will cost the taxpayers MILLIONS (it already has really) in legal fees. The COT at work.

[Florida]

Surely a hotel with a few condominiums is a very nice concept. But financing of the project with condo purchase monies is not a wise choice when it should be the developer risking his resources to pay for the project not the future homeowners.

Mr. Lakelander, I was doing a simple google search for a little information when I stumbled over a website- skyscrapercities or something in which you made a few wise remarks regarding your expertise on Tallahassee. If I might quote you, I believe you wrote:

"Tallahassee is about 60 miles north of the Gulf of Mexico and its very hilly compared to the rest of Florida. Personally, I like Pensacola better. Although Tally has a larger skyline, Pensacola has a much larger metro and urban area, as well as a larger historical core. Its also located on the waterfront and has a diversified economy. Another benefit P-Cola has over Tally, is that is near other sizable interesting areas like Mobile, Fort Walton Beach and Destin. Tally is basically an isolated town surround by forests and rural farming communities."

You're right about many things you write. But if you want to be a spokesperson for a community, especially one you aren't that fond of, you need to know what you're talking about 100% of the time. This means informing your audience that Tallahassee is not 60 miles from the Gulf of Mexico, but 30 (Shell Point). And when you refer to Pensacola's metro being MUCH larger, I'd like you to atleast post figures so others can judge for themselves. Because personally, I wouldn't consider estimated 400,000 (Pensacola) vs 350,000 (Tallahassee) that much a significant difference, especially when there are other Metros in the state with millions.

Tallahassee's economy isn't famous for its diversity, but there is more to life here than you might have experienced during your time as a Student. Believe it or not, FSU and FAMU are not central to the lives of your typical Tallahasseean. Neither of my parents nor myself have ever worked in education or government. Believe it or not Tallahassee has a fair amount of manufacturing, distribution, and service industries. Many of us grow up miles away from FSU and FAMU, in my case over 20 miles, in one of Tallahassee's many beautiful neighborhoods, out of sight from unappreciative college students.

My family moved to this community from Cobb County Georgia to enjoy a better quality of life. This meant better schools, better neighborhoods, cleaner streets, and less time spent in traffic. To this day, we've not been disappointed. I regret Tallahassee wasn't the city you wanted her to be when you came here for college, hopefully your school was. My only beef with someone like yourself is that you're so outspoken about a place you only know from limited experience. I've been living here 17 years and I'm still discovering things.

[Florida]

At this point, it may be best to scrap the plan and the developer and start over.  Are there any other development groups waiting in the wings?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes

[bobliocatt]

Surely a hotel with a few condominiums is a very nice concept. But financing of the project with condo purchase monies is not a wise choice when it should be the developer risking his resources to pay for the project not the future homeowners.

What's not wise about getting somebody else to risk their money, instead of yours?

Mr. Lakelander, I was doing a simple google search for a little information when I stumbled over a website- skyscrapercities or something in which you made a few wise remarks regarding your expertise on Tallahassee. If I might quote you, I believe you wrote:

"Tallahassee is about 60 miles north of the Gulf of Mexico and its very hilly compared to the rest of Florida. Personally, I like Pensacola better. Although Tally has a larger skyline, Pensacola has a much larger metro and urban area, as well as a larger historical core. Its also located on the waterfront and has a diversified economy. Another benefit P-Cola has over Tally, is that is near other sizable interesting areas like Mobile, Fort Walton Beach and Destin. Tally is basically an isolated town surround by forests and rural farming communities."

You're right about many things you write. But if you want to be a spokesperson for a community, especially one you aren't that fond of, you need to know what you're talking about 100% of the time. This means informing your audience that Tallahassee is not 60 miles from the Gulf of Mexico, but 30 (Shell Point).

And when you refer to Pensacola's metro being MUCH larger, I'd like you to atleast post figures so others can judge for themselves. Because personally, I wouldn't consider estimated 400,000 (Pensacola) vs 350,000 (Tallahassee) that much a significant difference, especially when there are other Metros in the state with millions.

Tallahassee's economy isn't famous for its diversity, but there is more to life here than you might have experienced during your time as a Student. Believe it or not, FSU and FAMU are not central to the lives of your typical Tallahasseean. Neither of my parents nor myself have ever worked in education or government. Believe it or not Tallahassee has a fair amount of manufacturing, distribution, and service industries. Many of us grow up miles away from FSU and FAMU, in my case over 20 miles, in one of Tallahassee's many beautiful neighborhoods, out of sight from unappreciative college students.

My family moved to this community from Cobb County Georgia to enjoy a better quality of life. This meant better schools, better neighborhoods, cleaner streets, and less time spent in traffic. To this day, we've not been disappointed. I regret Tallahassee wasn't the city you wanted her to be when you came here for college, hopefully your school was. My only beef with someone like yourself is that you're so outspoken about a place you only know from limited experience. I've been living here 17 years and I'm still discovering things.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't have any beef with you, just advice. There's no need to defend Tally to me, I lived there (1996-2001) and still visit quite often. Also, don't take opinions mentioned on a forum so serious and personal. I never said I hated the town, I just liked Pensacola a little better.

Anyway, I'm not an official spokesperson for any city either, neither are you or anyone else on these forums. What you read was my opinion regarding the differences between it and Pensacola, which is what the thread was about. I value historical coastal cities a little more than landlocked places, but that's just me. I'm not sticking a gun to anybody's face and telling them to move to a dense waterfront city or else.

And when you refer to Pensacola's metro being MUCH larger, I'd like you to atleast post figures so others can judge for themselves. Because personally, I wouldn't consider estimated 400,000 (Pensacola) vs 350,000 (Tallahassee) that much a significant difference, especially when there are other Metros in the state with millions.

Metro Pensacola has 100,000 more residents, in a smaller more compact land area. Thus its significantly larger, despite only having a little over 50,000 in city limits, compared to Tally's 150,000.

Metro Pensacola (Escambia & Santa Rosa Counites):

437,135(2004); 412,153(2000)

Metro Tallahassee: (Leon, Gadsden & Wakulla Counties):

317,153(2004); 307,402(2000)

Here's a link:

http://www.census.gov/popest/counties/tabl...T2004-01-12.xls

[Florida]

Again... the facts

Effective 2003 the Tallahassee MSA included Leon, Gasden, Wakulla, and Jefferson Counties. Using those census numbers you linked would yield 331,655(2004) not 317,153.

I'm glad you've made a point to show those are your opinions you express and not fact, often times Im confused. In calling you a spokesperson I never said you were official, surely I know better. However, you are presenting this community to many who have not experienced it before, and I think it would be the kind thing to get the facts straight if you're going to tell someone who'se never been here about us, I'd extend to you the same courtesy if I were talking about your city.

[bobliocatt]

^So now they're including Jefferson County as well? Talk about cooking numbers. Like Wakulla and Gasden Counties, its one of the most rural places in the state. Those three counties combined probably don't even have 5 public high schools. Anybody who's spent time a significant amount of time in both areas knows metro Pensacola is quite larger. There's a reason one has had an Interstate spur for years and the other doesn't. I'm sure the urban area numbers would hit this right on the nail, but I'm to tired to spend much effort looking it up right now.

Personally, I could care less how you view Jax, Madison, Mobile, Valdosta or any other place. These forums were created to express and share ideas and opinions on urban issues and I'll continue to express my opinions, the way I have always done. If you disagree, so be it, we can have an intelligent debate. That's what the purpose of a forum is. But lets get this straight and out in the open, this is definately not a chamber of commerce website where we attempt to sugercoat everything, to keep sensitive viewers happy. Keep the lectures to yourself, because your wasting your time, if you're trying to stop me from saying things you believe are negative.

[cityboy05]

From reading this thread and others, people have mixed facts with their opinions. I am glad to see people express their opinions, and glad to see people giving facts, but I don't think you should mix them together. Keep facts seperated from opinions because there are people out there who really wants to know what is going on and for people to mix some of the facts with their opinions isn't great, but that is just my opinion.

another opinion: They just need to stop this project. This thing will not get built any time soon.

[bobliocatt]

From reading this thread and others, people have mixed facts with their opinions. I am glad to see people express their opinions, and glad to see people giving facts, but I don't think you should mix them together. Keep facts seperated from opinions because there are people out there who really wants to know what is going on and for people to mix some of the facts with their opinions isn't great, but that is just my opinion.

another opinion: They just need to stop this project. This thing will not get built any time soon.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well let me clear this old statement from another forum up, so we can put this silly issue to rest.

"Tallahassee is about 60 miles north of the Gulf of Mexico and its very hilly compared to the rest of Florida.

Fact: according to yahoo maps, its 30.7 miles from Tallahassee to Shell Point. The driving time is estimated to be 57 minutes, because its only accessible by traveling winding small two lane roads. On the other hand, Pensacola is a waterfront city.

Yahoo Maps

Opinion: Tallahassee is a good hour away from the Gulf of Mexico, Pensacola isn't.

Personally, I like Pensacola better. Although Tally has a larger skyline, Pensacola has a much larger metro and urban area, as well as a larger historical core. Its also located on the waterfront and has a diversified economy.

Fact: Tallahassee has a larger skyline. Pensacola has a much larger metro, urban area.

Metro Pensacola (Escambia & Santa Rosa Counties only): 437,135 (2004)

Metro Tallahassee: (Leon, Gadsden, Wakulla and Jefferson Counties): 331,655(2004)

http://www.census.gov/popest/counties/tabl...T2004-01-12.xls

Opinion: I believe Pensacola is significantly larger because it has over 100,000 more residents, despite metro Tallahassee being covering twice as much land area. If metro Pensacola took up the same amount of land area, it would include parts of metro Mobile and Fort Walton Beach, thus pushing its numbers up, by another 100-200k easily.

Fact: Pensacola's workforce is more diversified. Excluding governmental, educational, military, oil and port related jobs, here's all of the employers in each urban core county with a workforce of 900 or more.

Pensacola:

Sacred Heart Health System

Business Line: Healthcare Service

Number of Employees..................................................... 3,500

Baptist Health Care

Business Line: Healthcare Service

Number of Employees..................................................... 3,470

Solutia, Inc.

Business Line: Nylone Fiber/Industrial Organic Chemicals

Number of Employees..................................................... 1,800

Lakeview

Business Line: Healthcare Service

Number of Employees..................................................... 1,500

Gulf Power Company

Business Line: Electric Utility

Number of Employees..................................................... 1,400

West Florida Regional Medical Center

Business Line: Healthcare Service

Number of Employees..................................................... 1,200

International Paper

Business Line: Paper Products

Number of Employees..................................................... 900

http://www.eflorida.com/profiles/CountyRep...=41&Display=all

Tallahassee:

Tallahassee Memorial HeathCare, Inc.

Business Line: Not-for-profit hospital

Number of Employees..................................................... 2,850

Publix

Business Line: Grocer

Number of Employees..................................................... 2,000

Wal-Mart

Business Line: Retail

Number of Employees..................................................... 900

http://www.eflorida.com/profiles/CountyRep...=61&Display=all

(FYI, I'm not aware of any Walmart or Publix manufacturing or distribution center in the area, so those numbers are the total workforce of the area's Publix and Walmart retail stores.)

Opinion: It doesn't mean Tally's a bad place, but Pensacola seems more diversified, which was my original point.

Another benefit P-Cola has over Tally, is that is near other sizable interesting areas like Mobile, Fort Walton Beach and Destin. Tally is basically an isolated town surround by forests and rural farming communities."

Fact: Jefferson, Wakulla and Gadsen Counties, parts of metro Tally, are all rural counties. Crawfordville, Qunicy and Monticello are the largest cities in each of these places. All are small agricultural based communities with populations under 15,000 and a good drive through the woods from Tallahassee. From Pensacola you can get to decent sized metros like Mobile and Fort Walton Beach, quicker than you can get to a similar sized metro from Tallahassee.

Opinion: Pensacola is a closer distance to other significant cities.

Hopefully this clears up any misconceptions about my earlier statement posted on SSC.

[cityboy05]

You didn't have to necessarily do that LakeLander. When I said don't mix facts with your opinions I meant don't stretch the truth, because it wouldn't be a fact then. Thanks for taking in my word though.

[Urban_Legend]

lol, TJ, I am in awe of your research skills. I've never seen someone go to those lengths to make a point on a message board....

[Florida]

lol, TJ, I am in awe of your research skills.  I've never seen someone go to those lengths to make a point on a message board....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks dude!!

Back to the Lakelander... LMAO! The first thing that came to mind when I saw those numbers you posted as far as our lack of diversity in our workforce vs. Pensacola was the fact that there were so many ommissions. How do you expect to compare a capital city to another city w/o mention of its major industry government. But in the absence of such as you have chosen to do... we have what follows...

50 Largest Employers FTE

State of Florida (non-university) 25,204

Florida State University 8,784

Leon County Schools 4,403

City of Tallahassee 3,327

Tallahassee Memorial HealthCare, Inc. .....................................2,850

Florida A&M University 2,681

Publix Supermarkets, Inc. .......................................................2,000

Leon County 1,522

Tallahassee Community College 1,090

Sprint ................................................................................

......740

Capital City Bank ......................................................................530

Tallahassee/Leon County Civic Center ........................................518

Capital Regional Medical Center .................................................515

Caspers Group McDonald's ........................................................500

Quincy Farms ...........................................................................500

Capital Health Plan ....................................................................485

Wal*Mart Super Center .............................................................425

St. Marks Powder A GENERAL DYNAMICS COMPANY .....................330

Coastal Lumber Company ..........................................................312

Talla-Com Industries, Inc. ..........................................................268

The Florida Bar .........................................................................265

Westminster Oaks Continuing Care Retirement Community ...........262

HealthSouth Rehabilitation Hospital ..............................................250

Tallahassee Democrat, Inc. ........................................................238

Fringe Benefits Management Co. .................................................225

Premier Construction and Development, Inc. ...............................201

Big Bend Hospice, Inc. ...............................................................200

General Dynamics Land Systems ................................................197

Talquin Electric Cooperative, Inc. ................................................174

Florida League of Cities, Inc. .......................................................169

DISC Village, Inc. ......................................................................162

Manpower, Inc. ..........................................................................160

Champion Chevrolet, Inc. ...........................................................157

Dillard's Department Stores ........................................................152

Municipal Code Corporation ........................................................152

Goodwill Industries Big Bend, Inc. ...............................................150

North Florida Christian School .....................................................150

Remedy Intelligent Staffing .........................................................150

Sonny's Real Pit Bar-B-Q ............................................................150

Home Depot ..............................................................................14

5

Maclay School ...........................................................................145

Comcast Cablevision of Tallahassee, Inc. ....................................143

ACS/Consultec ..........................................................................142

Proctor Dealer Group .................................................................139

Mainline Information Systems, Inc. .............................................132

Bank of America .......................................................................130

Culpepper Construction Company ..............................................127

DoubleTree Hotel .....................................................................125

Image API, Inc. .......................................................................125

Infinity Software Development ..................................................125

I thought it important to illustrate how many may have been overlooked-- on accident Im sure. Here in Tallahassee and throughout the capital region we recognize we have a long way to go to get where we want as far as a diversified economy is concerned, but our role as a capital city thus a government town, and state educational center will always show dominant in our employment statistics.

I understand Jefferson, Wakulla, and Gasden may not be your idea of significant locales, but to the people that call them home they are. These communities were among Florida's first long ago when there was no central and south Florida. They are very rich in history and have long served as agricultural support systems.

While these counties are now experiencing a record level of growth, along with the rest of this state, Im sure it will be important to these communities that their character remain intact. I'm proud Tallahassee is "protected" by these rural communities, stories have long told of Tallahassee as Florida's Hiden treasure. B)

[bobliocatt]

Thanks dude!!

[Florida]

The Tallahassee MSA was determined by the United States Census, you can beef it out with them on why Jefferson, and Wakulla are now included.

I believe I saw figures from Publix and Wal-Mart posted in your mock of Tallahassee's economy so I figured since he went there, why don't I go there all the way. If anything you weakened your argument by pointing out that Pensacola's Metro economy is basically ALL healthcare, I know where to go if I get sick! But I have nothing against Pensacola, and I actually embrace it as well as the rest of the Florida Panhandle as wonderful communities.

... I think you missed the whole point behind Tallahassee being a protected city, it really had nothing to do with growth. Why don't we also agree to try our best, where ever possible to do more to insure accurate information.

[Florida]

More important I think it also important to note that our Electric Utility in Tallahassee is run by the City of Tallahassee, so is our Airport each with a sizeable number of Employees.

[bobliocatt]

The Tallahassee MSA was determined by the United States Census, you can beef it out with them on why Jefferson, and Wakulla are now included.

I just said it was a stretch. But the US Census does that with a lot of places. Do you have access to both of these cities urban area populations? That would be an apples to apples comparison.

I believe I saw figures from Publix and Wal-Mart posted in your mock of Tallahassee's economy so I figured since he went there, why don't I go there all the way. If anything you weakened your argument by pointing out that Pensacola's Metro economy is basically ALL healthcare, I know where to go if I get sick! But I have nothing against Pensacola, and I actually embrace it as well as the rest of the Florida Panhandle as wonderful communities.

... I think you missed the whole point behind Tallahassee being a protected city, it really had nothing to do with growth.

Just to let you know, I didn't attempt to go anywhere with those numbers. They come directly from the state's economic department. Maybe you should email the state or drop by and correct them, if you think they're wrong. Please take the time to click on the links I provided for proof that I'm not making these up.

BTW, I guess I did miss your point on Tally being protected by these places. Please explain, how or what are they protecting Tally from?

Why don't we also agree to try our best, where ever possible to do more to insure accurate information.

I posted url links to census estimates and the State of Florida's economic profiles for each place and you still question them. What else do you want?

[Florida]

Back to the Civic Center...

... wouldn't it nice if we changed the color of the building and added a few neon lights!!