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GRDadof3

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Not to me really but, you know, hyperbole and downtown development kinda go hand in hand.  It would only be a game changer in the sense that some retailer finally felt the residential density downtown was approaching the critical mass necessary to support such an endeavor.  I mean, as far as I'm concerned the whitewater thing gets a yawn and a "that's nice".  Sure it's nice for some folks but does it change the game for a majority of the population?  Oh well, anything that improves downtown, draws visitors downtown, and/or enhances our city's visibility is OK by me.

 

I agree regarding the rapids/whitewater thing.  Who cares.  An actual retail or grocery development downtown or anywhere near it, on the other hand, truly would be a genuine game changer, as long as it isn't another crummy, overpriced, subsidized "urban market" concept.  To me, that whole thing was just a boondoggle from a retailing perspective--who can actually afford to buy anything there? 

 

If it's just more educational/medical stuff, I don't think it changes a thing.  Just piling on more of the same.  An actual, useful, reasonably priced store to shop at would really be something though.

 

For me, though, a real game changer would likely need to involve something near Division that would deal with the shelters, panhandling, and personal safety.  I just have a hard time seeing retail or any "5-10" activities take off downtown until it gets under control.  Attracting an influx of suburbanites requires safety, and I don't think that perception is there.  If someone has actually come up with a viable way to deal with this, I will be shocked.  I still do not feel safe even in the middle of the day, and I live within a mile of downtown and work here every day.  Change the game?  Deed the sidewalks and streets to the adjoining property owners, and hire security.  Turn downtown into one big, giant "lifestyle center".  That changes the game, big time.  Fat chance, though.

 

Honestly, I don't see the point of threads like this.  It's just pointless speculation.  In which I am willfully participating.  ;)

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The only real game-changing developments to come downtown were:

 

Amway Grand Plaza

 

Van Andel Arena

 

Van Andel Institute

 

DeVos Place

 

Re-opening of Monroe

 

Art Prize

 

So this will have to be of a scale that massive to really have that much of an impact.

 

-A full MSU campus in the N. Monroe area is definitely up there. A major retail development on Market St. fits as well.

 

-A full grocery with normal food items (not Trader Joes) by Wealthy and S. Division.

 

-Someone bought both Degege and Guiding Light mission. Moving those would defineitly change S. Division.

 

-Maybe the parking lots west of the highway on Lk. Mich. Dr. for a massive development?

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Not to me really but, you know, hyperbole and downtown development kinda go hand in hand.  It would only be a game changer in the sense that some retailer finally felt the residential density downtown was approaching the critical mass necessary to support such an endeavor.  I mean, as far as I'm concerned the whitewater thing gets a yawn and a "that's nice".  Sure it's nice for some folks but does it change the game for a majority of the population?  Oh well, anything that improves downtown, draws visitors downtown, and/or enhances our city's visibility is OK by me.

 

I think you'll be surprised by the amount of energy a real rapid-filled river brings to downtown. Having just come off a trip to Colorado recently, there is definitely a draw to a real river that undulates and drops and flows over massive bouiders and outcroppings. The sound of it and the look of wild water is a lot different than water flowing over a structured dam with a bunch of 7-11 big gulp cups floating in it. Add in some kayakers who will be using it pretty much every day from April through October and it's a "point of interest" that will get onlookers. If concrete plans come out of the riverfront planning committee, it could be downtown's coolest asset.

 

I just don't see how a grocery store changes much. Most of the downtown residents I know have said that they would have to drive there anyway, no matter where it was located, so what's the difference between a grocery store that you drive to at Division and Wealthy and driving to the Knapp's Corner Meijer? Except for the added 10 minutes in your car? It certainly won't sell any more downtown real estate. Demand is already pretty high.

I agree regarding the rapids/whitewater thing.  Who cares.  An actual retail or grocery development downtown or anywhere near it, on the other hand, truly would be a genuine game changer, as long as it isn't another crummy, overpriced, subsidized "urban market" concept.  To me, that whole thing was just a boondoggle from a retailing perspective--who can actually afford to buy anything there? 

 

If it's just more educational/medical stuff, I don't think it changes a thing.  Just piling on more of the same.  An actual, useful, reasonably priced store to shop at would really be something though.

 

For me, though, a real game changer would likely need to involve something near Division that would deal with the shelters, panhandling, and personal safety.  I just have a hard time seeing retail or any "5-10" activities take off downtown until it gets under control.  Attracting an influx of suburbanites requires safety, and I don't think that perception is there.  If someone has actually come up with a viable way to deal with this, I will be shocked.  I still do not feel safe even in the middle of the day, and I live within a mile of downtown and work here every day.  Change the game?  Deed the sidewalks and streets to the adjoining property owners, and hire security.  Turn downtown into one big, giant "lifestyle center".  That changes the game, big time.  Fat chance, though.

 

Honestly, I don't see the point of threads like this.  It's just pointless speculation.  In which I am willfully participating.  ;)

 

I honestly thought about just keeping it to myself. Just wondered if anyone hear would have any more insight. Clearly no one does. :)

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Totally agree on the river. 

 

Agree on the grocery store (for now). I think a bigger 'win' at this point would be a Walgreens or CVS. Convenient for residents, convenient for office workers. I'm surprised we haven't seen one pop up yet. I think the Half Century building (nice corner lot, centrally located) would be a good spot. 

 

Speaking of the Half Century building, do they have any tenants? Beautiful building, looks like a ghost town.

 

Joe

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Okay based on some additional information I received, I would say it's NOT MSU yet. Sounds like it won't be ready for prime time until the Board of Trustees votes in December. Whether we get a peak at anything before then might depend on how hungry the local lamestream media is.

 

So another game changer...

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Totally agree on the river. 

 

Agree on the grocery store (for now). I think a bigger 'win' at this point would be a Walgreens or CVS. Convenient for residents, convenient for office workers. I'm surprised we haven't seen one pop up yet. I think the Half Century building (nice corner lot, centrally located) would be a good spot. 

 

Speaking of the Half Century building, do they have any tenants? Beautiful building, looks like a ghost town.

 

Joe

 

I think when the Morton house gets done with its a rehab, they should open up a huge chunk of the main floor for a Walgreens or cvs. I know its not going to happen, just a great location. 

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The more I think about this, and who said it, I think it's the development proposals that will come out around the MSU biotech campus. I'm guessing we're going to see some massive mixed use proposals, including large scale retail (grocery store), which conceivably could be considered "game changers." That's my answer Alex!

 

I think you're spot on.

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Oh gawd, I think this might be it. Ehhhh

 

http://www.grbj.com/articles/80191-devos-hall-to-receive-upgrades-to-attract-big-broadway-shows

 

Good for Devos Place and Mike Lloyd!

 

Well, that answers my question as to why the Wharton Center and Miller Auditorium always got those big shows and not Grand Rapids.  Compared to some bigger hopes and dreams this news is a bit of a letdown but still, I think this is good stuff.  Now, about those actors swinging out over the audience... I think our city leaders will probably want to look into that and develop some regulations.

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Oh gawd, I think this might be it. Ehhhh

 

http://www.grbj.com/articles/80191-devos-hall-to-receive-upgrades-to-attract-big-broadway-shows

 

Good for Devos Place and Mike Lloyd!

 

This actually really is good news.  GR folks shouldn't be driving to college campuses an hour away to catch these shows.  Heck, maybe people from around the region will be coming here instead from now on for nights of dinner, drinks, & theater.  I'd see a show downtown over Wharton Center any day.

 

But, still awaiting the so-called game changer...

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I have been made aware of two large projects that have been put together in two unexpected neighborhoods, areas.  One of them should be ready to announce fairly soon.  However, I would not classify either of these as big.  Hmmm.

 

I'm assuming that the Duthler Foods project in Madison Square is one - certainly a big deal for that neighborhood. Given your mentions of Burton Heights in recent days, I'm hopeful that the other one is located there. I agree that the Burton & Division intersection is primed for redevelopment.

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Not sure if this is just going to be a local buzzword or what, but..

"This is for downtown. "Game changer" and "bigger than ArtPrize for downtown" were used by someone who is somewhat of a game-changer him/herself, but he/she said it wasn't his/her story to tell (hiding the gender purposely). Announcement coming next week apparently."
-GRDad

"
Lloyd equated the attraction of large stage productions to that of ArtPrize"
-Article on DeVos & Broadway

I think that pretty much identifies it.  Hope I'm wrong.

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Not sure if this is just going to be a local buzzword or what, but..

"This is for downtown. "Game changer" and "bigger than ArtPrize for downtown" were used by someone who is somewhat of a game-changer him/herself, but he/she said it wasn't his/her story to tell (hiding the gender purposely). Announcement coming next week apparently."

-GRDad

"Lloyd equated the attraction of large stage productions to that of ArtPrize"

-Article on DeVos & Broadway

I think that pretty much identifies it.  Hope I'm wrong.

 

 

That's why I thought it was it too. He used the same "language" that the other person used.

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How about an invisible dome over Grand Rapids that keeps it sunny and 75 degrees all year. Is that too much to ask?

The second I hear bigger than artprize I figured it wasn't a physical structure. If adding a better stage and bathroom equality to DeVos is a game changer, he/she should stop using that word.

MSU could be a game changer. A company relocating to GR (downtown) would be a game changer.

Joe

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How about an invisible dome over Grand Rapids that keeps it sunny and 75 degrees all year. Is that too much to ask?

The second I hear bigger than artprize I figured it wasn't a physical structure. If adding a better stage and bathroom equality to DeVos is a game changer, he/she should stop using that word.

MSU could be a game changer. A company relocating to GR (downtown) would be a game changer.

Joe

 

Mike Lloyd was saying it's a "game changer" for downtown because it will draw bigger, longer running shows, which equals more visitors for downtown (similar to ArtPrize but spread over a year). The 14 day run of Phantom seems like a good start. Downtown/Monroe Avenue does seem to be hopping when there's something big at Devos Place. And Miller Auditorium and Wharton Center are out on college campuses, and the only place to catch a lot of these big acts, so it would be a plus for downtown GR.

 

But yes, 1000 more workers downtown would feel like a game changer.

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With that said, it's only a "game changer" for DeVos hall. Sure, it may bring longer productions and more people downtown sporadically throughout the year, but it's still pretty mundane news for most of the world. I agree that the word game changer should be banned. ;)

Now maybe if they had used an upworthy headline:

You won't believe how women's bathrooms changed this sleepy Midwestern town!

Four shocking additions that will change your hometown forever!

Is Mike Lloyd hiring? I might have a knack for writing awesome headlines. :)

Joe

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