Jump to content

Two new residential projects for East Hills


GRDadof3

Recommended Posts

I'm fully aware of the shortcomings of a house that costs only $100 per square foot.  Still, the houses still need to meet minimum modern code, and at the end of the day, you still have a new house with an 8' basement and a lot less problems than the 100 year old housing stock we currently have.  My point is simply that it is possible. 

 

It would be great if people would pay $300k for a high end 1800sf custom house in GR, but it won't happen.  That is exactly why we keep getting condos and apartments:  You need huge economies of scale to make construction in Grand Rapids work.  Even if they aren't they luxury houses, if even a few were built and sold, it would be a huge step forward and provide some evidence that people would actually buy a new house in GR. 

 

 

I've gone through the entire Heritage Hill to Eastown to East Hills to Wealthy Street area looking for vacant lots that could potentially be built on. There are maybe a dozen or so in a ten block area, and half of those would require the landowner to split the property (they own a double lot). Unless you get into widespread demolition like they're doing in Belknap, there's no real incentive for a large builder to go through all that trouble in the areas of the city where you can command a $250,000 price tag.

 

Then you have lots like this near Plymouth and Fulton where the seller wants $89,900 for a .42 acre lot in the city:

 

http://grar.com/property/mls/14001861

 

You can jump up to $95,000 for a lot in Forest Hills and have lower taxes and exemplary schools, about two miles to the East.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Replies 89
  • Created
  • Last Reply

I'm fully aware of the shortcomings of a house that costs only $100 per square foot.  Still, the houses still need to meet minimum modern code, and at the end of the day, you still have a new house with an 8' basement and a lot less problems than the 100 year old housing stock we currently have.  My point is simply that it is possible. 

 

It would be great if people would pay $300k for a high end 1800sf custom house in GR, but it won't happen.  That is exactly why we keep getting condos and apartments:  You need huge economies of scale to make construction in Grand Rapids work.  Even if they aren't they luxury houses, if even a few were built and sold, it would be a huge step forward and provide some evidence that people would actually buy a new house in GR. 

why would I want a new house with a 8' basement ceiling when my 140 year old house had a 10 foot ceiling in the basement.  100 year old housing stock doesn't necessarily mean more problems than a old house. of course many of the homes in heritage hill have a ton of deferred maintenance which takes quite an investment to bring current.  once there though the homes are often better than new, with details that are not possible in a home that runs 200 dollars a square foot let alone 100 dollars a square foot.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would be great if people would pay $300k for a high end 1800sf custom house in GR, but it won't happen.  

 

http://paradeofhomes.mygrhome.com/huffman-homes-444-union-ave-se-heritage-hill-grand-rapids/  I think he said he was like, $145/ft?

 

Outside of Heritage Hill, but I looked at a house two weeks ago.  Was probably 40 years old, but gutted and remodeled.  City of GR, GRPS Schools, 2200 sq ft ranch.  $320k, sold without a Realtor or listing, full price, multiple offers to a young family. 

 

Pointed out just because I hate generalizations.  Maybe you won't do it, but some will.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://paradeofhomes.mygrhome.com/huffman-homes-444-union-ave-se-heritage-hill-grand-rapids/  I think he said he was like, $145/ft?

 

Outside of Heritage Hill, but I looked at a house two weeks ago.  Was probably 40 years old, but gutted and remodeled.  City of GR, GRPS Schools, 2200 sq ft ranch.  $320k, sold without a Realtor or listing, full price, multiple offers to a young family. 

 

Pointed out just because I hate generalizations.  Maybe you won't do it, but some will.

 

 

That home sold for $235,000, for essentially $130/sf.

 

Yes, there are some areas in the city of GR where homes could go for $350,000+. The areas around Marywood and Aquinas, Plymouth and near Burton and Breton for instance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That home sold for $235,000, for essentially $130/sf.

 

Yes, there are some areas in the city of GR where homes could go for $350,000+. The areas around Marywood and Aquinas, Plymouth and near Burton and Breton for instance.

 

 

I stand corrected.  I swear he said more than that at the parade.  It was pretty high end, quartz/granite/Wolf, etc.

 

I guess I think if houses in those locations will go for $$$, wouldn't they in heritage hill? Or is x99, correct, people won't spend $140/ft in Heritage HIll?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I stand corrected.  I swear he said more than that at the parade.  It was pretty high end, quartz/granite/Wolf, etc.

 

I guess I think if houses in those locations will go for $$$, wouldn't they in heritage hill? Or is x99, correct, people won't spend $140/ft in Heritage HIll?

 

That I don't know. My guess is if you built new in Heritage Hill, with all of the requirements of the historic district, you'd be way over that amount. Are there any vacant lots in HH?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That I don't know. My guess is if you built new in Heritage Hill, with all of the requirements of the historic district, you'd be way over that amount. Are there any vacant lots in HH?

 

There are quite a few vacant lots in the Hill, if you look for them.  Whether they are for sale...  People will spend $300k for some houses in the Hill, but houses at that price tend to be around 3000+ square feet and immaculate.  $80 is closer to the norm, and $130 to $140 a square foot is about the limit.  The house basically needs to be like new to get that price--new wiring, plumbing, central air, new kitchen, new bathrooms.  Not much of a premium for the "old world craftsmanship"--if any.  The new house on Union was actually about $150 a foot since it is just less than 1600sf.  I assume that includes the ridiculously expensive appliances.  In East Hills, someone paid just over $250,000 for one of those newish condos in East Hills off Hollister, but the basement was partially finished, so it was about $135 per square foot.  The interior wasn't that great, and I'd bet you could build it for (a lot) less.  The market is out there. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That I don't know. My guess is if you built new in Heritage Hill, with all of the requirements of the historic district, you'd be way over that amount. Are there any vacant lots in HH?

It would be interesting to see what the cost was for the new home built on the corner of Madison and Pleasant.  Fulton Group built it for a customer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would be interesting to see what the cost was for the new home built on the corner of Madison and Pleasant.  Fulton Group built it for a customer.

 

Well they only paid $6682 for the lot, but the home is 2300 sq ft.

 

Not a bad looking house.

 

https://accessmygov.com/ASSG_Sketch/GetAttachment?id=419862&uid=115

 

We'll have to wait until the property gets assessed with the house on it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are quite a few vacant lots in the Hill, if you look for them.  Whether they are for sale...  People will spend $300k for some houses in the Hill, but houses at that price tend to be around 3000+ square feet and immaculate.  $80 is closer to the norm, and $130 to $140 a square foot is about the limit.  The house basically needs to be like new to get that price--new wiring, plumbing, central air, new kitchen, new bathrooms.  Not much of a premium for the "old world craftsmanship"--if any.  The new house on Union was actually about $150 a foot since it is just less than 1600sf.  I assume that includes the ridiculously expensive appliances.  In East Hills, someone paid just over $250,000 for one of those newish condos in East Hills off Hollister, but the basement was partially finished, so it was about $135 per square foot.  The interior wasn't that great, and I'd bet you could build it for (a lot) less.  The market is out there. 

 

OK, how could you build that townhouse for a lot less? Specifically? I look at the interior pictures of the townhouse on Hollister and I see standard 8 foot ceilings, no custom woodwork, a fairly plain looking brick fireplace, hardwood or laminate wood floors on the first floor, about 10 banks of cabinets and an island in the kitchen (a relatively small kitchen in other words), plain black appliances, some kind of Silestone or corian counters, white hollow core doors and bi-folds on the closets, colonial trim around the windows and standard baseboards. The one major upgrade is the tile shower, which was probably $2000. Otherwise it's your typical Eastbrook built home for $150/sf.

 

So if you stripped out $20,000 of that stuff and went with absolute junk builder grade finishes, it would be a pretty depressing looking place. And it would still be $125 - $130/sf.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, how could you build that townhouse for a lot less? Specifically?

 

It doesn't seem I've been able to convince you that a decent home could be built for under $150 a square foot, so let's try another route. New, TO BE BUILT construction listed on the MLS says otherwise, and they aren't all Edwin Allen.  Since Eastbrook built these, let's try Eastbrook.  2000 above grade, and 2400 total finished:  http://www.grar.com/property/mls/14056413.  Here's another in Rockford from an unknown builder:  http://www.grar.com/property/mls/14030954.  About $110 each for finished space, with three stall garages.  And there are plenty more brand new homes ranging from $110 to $130 a foot. 

 

It is clearly possible to do this, and there appears to be a market for this in select areas of Grand Rapids close to the core.  New homes, in the core city, would be a huge accomplishment.  The two recent new ones in the Hill were the first, I believe, in well over a decade.  Primarily, though, we still keep getting condo and apartment proposals or small one-off houses that cost far more than they should per square foot. 

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and speculate that most sane builders don't want to get into a historic district because they have no idea what rules are going to be stuffed down their throat.  Half the time, the HPC doesn't even know what rules they are going to come up with.  I don't think that is a healthy situation.  It makes far more sense to me to set up a system where we say, "These are examples of acceptable designs, and exterior materials that will be approved."  Builders deal with restrictive building covenants all the time where a certain percentage of stone or Hardi is required on front elevation, and so forth.  Frankly, Hardi is not a big upcharge.  What builders don't deal with elsewhere is this ridiculous regime where each design goes in front of a committee and have no idea what will happen.  The design then gets picked apart and they get told to come back again next month with a new design using exterior materials that cost ridiculous amounts of money.  Many historic districts (and even some entire states) have created design and approved material manuals to reduce the uncertainty and cost, encourage traditional architecture, and promote affordable and attractive new home development.  We haven't.  Now that the area is supporting prices where new, detached construction is viable, I am simply hoping we get on track so we can stop slapping up overpriced condos and crummy apartment buildings because construction costs have been driven through the roof by our own failure to provide appropriate guidance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It doesn't seem I've been able to convince you that a decent home could be built for under $150 a square foot, so let's try another route. New, TO BE BUILT construction listed on the MLS says otherwise, and they aren't all Edwin Allen.  Since Eastbrook built these, let's try Eastbrook.  2000 above grade, and 2400 total finished:  http://www.grar.com/property/mls/14056413.  Here's another in Rockford from an unknown builder:  http://www.grar.com/property/mls/14030954.  About $110 each for finished space, with three stall garages.  And there are plenty more brand new homes ranging from $110 to $130 a foot. 

 

It is clearly possible to do this, and there appears to be a market for this in select areas of Grand Rapids close to the core.  New homes, in the core city, would be a huge accomplishment.  The two recent new ones in the Hill were the first, I believe, in well over a decade.  Primarily, though, we still keep getting condo and apartment proposals or small one-off houses that cost far more than they should per square foot. 

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and speculate that most sane builders don't want to get into a historic district because they have no idea what rules are going to be stuffed down their throat.  Half the time, the HPC doesn't even know what rules they are going to come up with.  I don't think that is a healthy situation.  It makes far more sense to me to set up a system where we say, "These are examples of acceptable designs, and exterior materials that will be approved."  Builders deal with restrictive building covenants all the time where a certain percentage of stone or Hardi is required on front elevation, and so forth.  Frankly, Hardi is not a big upcharge.  What builders don't deal with elsewhere is this ridiculous regime where each design goes in front of a committee and have no idea what will happen.  The design then gets picked apart and they get told to come back again next month with a new design using exterior materials that cost ridiculous amounts of money.  Many historic districts (and even some entire states) have created design and approved material manuals to reduce the uncertainty and cost, encourage traditional architecture, and promote affordable and attractive new home development.  We haven't.  Now that the area is supporting prices where new, detached construction is viable, I am simply hoping we get on track so we can stop slapping up overpriced condos and crummy apartment buildings because construction costs have been driven through the roof by our own failure to provide appropriate guidance.

 

 

I'm just going to have to school you on those listings (cracks knuckles). :)

 

The first one, the MLS listing is filled out incorrectly as far as square footage goes. It's 2383 square feet finished, not 2800. And it's in Greenville, not even in Kent County (in Montcalm County). It's WAAYYYYY out there East of Belding. Land is dirt dirt cheap, and they probably took over the development from a bankrupt development company.

 

It's about 2000 square feet above grade and then has a finished rec room in the basement for the remainder. Backing out the 318 square foot rec room at about $27/sf equals about $8586. Take that off the list price of $269,000 and you're at about $260,000. Take out probably $10,000 for the lot and you're at $250,000. That equals $125/sf, the absolute rock bottom of what you can build for a quality built home. From what I remember, the Stafford floorplan that Eastbrook builds is in their most "affordable" series of homes. They come with very little upgrades.

 

The second listing is a "to be built." It has not been built yet. Those are generally listed at an "enticement price" to get people interested. They rarely end up coming in at the stated listing price (the builder specifies that change orders will be added to the house price if you change any of the standard features). Totally legal and legit.

 

You earlier said that a house could be built for under $100/sf in the Heritage Hill area. Now you're saying $150/sf?

 

I will go way back to my original premise: there is definitely a market for new single family homes in select parts of the city. They will end up costing about $150/sf at the starting point to get anything that a middle class family would be happy with.

 

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Just providing the facts.

 

The end.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There have been at least a dozen single family homes in Heritage Hill that have sold for over $300K since the beginning of 2013 when its market started to return to normal.  One on Morris south of Wealthy St. SE sold for $490,000 this year. 

 

Outside of Heritage Hill, there are sales of 1,800-2,200 square foot homes in Grand Rapids that sell for over $300K.  Some include:

 

1600 block of Stillwater Court NE

$370,000 at $196 sq ft
100 block of Maryland Avenue NE

$335,000 at $157 sq ft
1800 block of Forland Court NE

$315,000 at $159 sq ft

 

FYI, 260 Prospect Ave. SE is about 1,800 square feet, plus what appears to be a two story garage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There have been at least a dozen single family homes in Heritage Hill that have sold for over $300K since the beginning of 2013 when its market started to return to normal.  One on Morris south of Wealthy St. SE sold for $490,000 this year. 

 

Outside of Heritage Hill, there are sales of 1,800-2,200 square foot homes in Grand Rapids that sell for over $300K.  Some include:

 

1600 block of Stillwater Court NE

$370,000 at $196 sq ft

100 block of Maryland Avenue NE

$335,000 at $157 sq ft

1800 block of Forland Court NE

$315,000 at $159 sq ft

 

FYI, 260 Prospect Ave. SE is about 1,800 square feet, plus what appears to be a two story garage.

 

 

Thanks! 260 Prospect the lot sold for $20,000, the mortgage is $206,000. Assuming at least 10% down it's probably at least $250,000 total price.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.