301 Hillsborough Street

[unique1rdu]

There was an article in the MidTown news regarding two developers interested in purchasing this site

http://www.midtownraleighnews.com/2014/10/02/4200641/raleighs-downtown-lot-sale-could.html

[Euphorius]

Let's hope the developers don't hire JDavis to design it.

[DanRNC]

Well I have a feeling Sandreuter may be one of the suitors so get ready for some more J Davis schlockery.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

I'll go ahead and lay my bet that we will end up with something between 3-7 stories tall on this block. And it will be a waste of such a great location....I am going to bed now before I make myself sick...someone wake me when it's all over. Maybe I'll dream of an outside developer who has both the nerve and deep pockets to dream themselves....sigh!

[Jones_]

This is a hard one to speculate on I think. The value of the lot, and the financial market make me think another 10-12 story building. I also have this weird feeling Kane is involved since a) it started in the mid town news and b) he seems crafty enough to propose and pull off getting approval for a private sale from the City. Actually if it is him, maybe we get a bigger building since we know he can pull that off in NH....Hillsborough St is an important gap to fill in and fill up between central and west downtown's areas. Runology and State of Beer help, but eliminating a parking lot would of course be huge. 

[RALNATIVE]

According to this article there is quite a bit of interest in this site:

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/blog/real-estate/2014/10/301-hillsborough-street-raleigh-nc-for-sale.html

 

Personally I'm hoping for another tower proposal for this site, or at least a nicely designed commercial structure of some sort. Since my condo at the Dawson is directly facing this site, i'm hoping that it won't be another poorly designed apartment building (e.g. Hue, Edison) that gets erected here.

[InitialD]

Skyhouse Raleigh II

[RALNATIVE]

This site is a prime location and many developers (who are actually capable of delivering sizeable projects) are going to want these sites. With Citrix being around the corner and Union Station kicking off next year, land and buildings in this area are becoming a hot commodity.

[Jones_]

Its gotta be one of the known commodities around here....Sandreuter, Roland Gammon/White Oak, Highwoods etc...

[Justin6882]

I guess out of those, I'd want Highwoods.

[RALNATIVE]

Highwoods would have my vote...

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

My idea? Have the city shop the land in the NY Times and national real estate firms/mags/agencies...just a thought! How else can we get other firms interested in buying and or doing a project?

[RALNATIVE]

With all of the national and international attention that Raleigh has been getting these days, the city technically should not have to do much to market the area. I think that the problem lies with the status quo's desire to favor local developers over developers from other regions.

[Green_man]

I think he meant advertise that this plot of land is for sale not necessarily marketing the city as a whole.

 

Between Charter Square North and Edison office and half the space still available in Charter Square South... there will be a lot of office space coming on the market in the next few years.  For this reason, I think it would be unlikely for a tall tower anytime soon unless there was a major corporate relocation.  I just don't see more speculative space being built with all the competition.

[Justin6882]

I received a letter in the mail last week regarding an upcoming meeting to discuss a rezoning request for 255 Hillsborough St and 320 W. Morgan St. These are the parking lots that were previously owned by the Reynolds and the site of their boondoggled Reynolds tower.

 

The proposed rezoning request would zone this property as downtown mixed use, 20 story max, with shopfront frontage. The rezoning would also make the property subject to stricter design standards according to the city's new development ordinance.

 

The fact that this is happening so quickly leads me to conclude that a developer is ready to buy the property and is pushing the city to rezone so that they can build a substantial development. Unfortunately I can't attend the meeting, but am interested to know who the developer may be.

Can anyone go to this meeting? Can you share details?

[RALNATIVE]

Can anyone go to this meeting? Can you share details?

 

I'm assuming that it's open to the general public. I received the letter because I own a condo adjacent to the site.

 

If you want the time and location just send me a private message and i'll reply.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

According to the triangle business Journal 12/29, Cary developer Gregg Sandreuter States that he is ready to present a proposal to the city for the old Reynolds property. And since the city is capping the height to 20 stories. Gregg is most likely to propose an Edison like project? 5/6 stories of apts over 1 level retail. Could someone please tell me where in Raleigh/downtown you can actually propose a 30,35,40+ building? Downtown proper is very small. Can't build too tall in East downtown as it would destroy the surrounding neighborhood. Can't build too tall in West downtown as Boylan Heights says NIMBY! Can't build too tall in North downtown as we have all but run out if land and are boxed in by rail line and Peace College. And what about South downtown? Land use is more suited to arena/ low rise apt buildings...and of course downtown proper has either too small sewer lines or builders whom only envision mid-rise buildings, much less any thing other then square boxes....God help us! Just my four cents ;-) lol....Thoughts?

[NCMike1981]

^Not to digress too far off topic but it seems as if the only place where you can build 30+ stories is Fayetteville St proper....I don't get the height restrictions downtown, not like Raleigh is Washington DC or something...

[DanRNC]

It's to protect the view of....nothing. I will say the height of a building means nothing in the context of street level experience. In Vancouver, the areas with the tallest buildings are also the deadest at night. This is also the case for Seattle. Obsession with building height may be more of an issue with insecurity, so to speak. 

[Euphorius]

The entire block where the Reynolds tower was proposed is up for rezoning. It's two separate cases, Z-038-14 and Z-039-14 on the city's website under current development activity. As DwnTwnRaleighGuy said, the city is capping it at 20 stories, but the neighbors are complaining about height and advocating for a 5-7 story building. From page 11 of the rezoning request for Z-039-14, it notes that the residents of Dawson are the ones advocating for the 5-7 story building. It's sad that people who chose to live in an urban area are now trying to restrict development near their condos. 5-7 stories would be a pathetic use of that land. I hope the city tells the complainers in the Dawson to STFU or GTFO, but I know that won't happen. It seems like there are as many NIMBY's in downtown as there are out in North Raleigh. What kind of reasonable person moves into a downtown and then becomes enraged when a developer tries to build a tower? A tower in downtown... the horrors. 

[RALNATIVE]

You need to understand the mindset of the majority of the people that live at the Dawson. Over half of the residents are older babyboomers, who are used to having things their way. They moved into downtown from the suburbs as empty nesters, but for some reason they want the convenience and comforts of the suburbs in what should be a modern urban environment.

 

I don't think that this crowd has any concerns about the future of Raleigh. They just want to sit back and enjoy their retirement and have everyone else around them cater to their lifestyles. It's pretty pathetic actually. These are the ones that are complaining about the zoning request. They really do need someone to explain to them that they are not living in JoCo, and that building tall structures is to be expected in a growing major city.  

[Jones_]

I have seen stated in various City planning documents that they were trying to steer downtown towards a 'tent layout' such that the tallest were along fayetteville and got shorter as things fanned out. This was of course to help protect places like Oakwood/SouthPark and Boylan Heights. I don't see a problem with sticking some taller stuff here and there though, especially Hillsborough St. As Dan points out, tall buildings do tend to deaden a downtown at certain hours (Vancouver was super dead around the glass wall facing the sound holy s^&*) if you get too much of a single use clustered together. Luckily our downtown is getting a nice infusion of apartments and essentially all new buildings are getting ground floor retail to boot. 

The Dawson folks should at least realize its north of them and there is no sunlight to block out. I think the road corridors of Dawson and McDowell are suited for tall stuff in general since this is a high speed throughfare through town and not conducive to things like outdoor cafes (I feel afraid sitting outside at the Borough....a car landed up against the light pole beside their patio once), and apartments with quiet for sleeping. 

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

As Dan points out, tall buildings do tend to deaden a downtown at certain hours (Vancouver was super dead around the glass wall facing the sound holy s^&*) if you get too much of a single use clustered together. Luckily our downtown is getting a nice infusion of apartments and essentially all new buildings are getting ground floor retail to boot. 

 

As far as tall building go, I think it is more important for the City of Raleigh to concern itself with what is going to fill that tower, and the design, and to a much less degree how tall the tower is going to be that determines if it is going to be "dead" around said buildings. (think commercial space/hotel/parking/restaurants/other shops/apartments/condo's....i.e. multi-use), then the sky is the limit, specifically in downtown of course. Our elected officials and those who work under them should be looking more at those items and less at are we building a 35ft tall building vs. 45ft tall building. However, there are only 4 spots,(that's a total guess), left on Fayetteville street that we would be able to build tall buildings on and then where do we go from there? 

[Euphorius]

This article was posted today. It says the Central CAC voted against the rezoning of the old Reynolds tower site. A memeber of the Dawson HOA had the nerve to say that a 20 story building would be "mammothly out of scale with our neighborhood." Funny how the Holiday Inn right across from this lot is 20 stories. I guess he forgot about the hair roller Holiday Inn when he was making his statement. He also said there shouldn't be a parking entrance/exit or bar/restaurant with outdoor seating on the Morgan side of the building. The building he lives in has a restaurant with outdoor seating. That is so hypocritical. http://raleighpublicrecord.org/news/2015/01/09/central-cac-votes-against-rezoning-cases/#comment-167357

[Jones_]

The proposed building is north of the Dawson. There is no sunlight to block out north of him. Sunlight would be the only reason I'd not want to be next to a taller building than me. And the Morgan St side is much safer for outdoor seating...faces away from the traffic barreling down Dawson St. Commercial space facing Morgan and maybe a little way down Hillsborough St would be ideal here though. Somethings I think people just read off of beotching queue cards and don't think about what they are saying.