West Michigan/Grand Rapids Economy

[GRDadof3]

I thought we had a population thread going, but maybe not? Anyway, MSA population numbers I believe come out today from the Census bureau. This would be the 2020 count. 

[GR8scott]

At least MI finally hit 10mil officially

[RegalTDP]

1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

I thought we had a population thread going, but maybe not?

Here: https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/117687-population-growth/page/6/#comments

 

[GRDadof3]

First quarter 2021 rental vacancy rates are out and we're at a startling 1.7%, putting us as the lowest in the country for MSA's.

 

This article from February 2021 also mentions us in the top 10.  https://porch.com/advice/cities-highest-lowest-rental-vacancy-rates
Source: https://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/data/rates.html

 

[walker]

1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

First quarter 2021 rental vacancy rates are out and we're at a startling 1.7%, putting us as the lowest in the country for MSA's.

. . .
Source: https://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/data/rates.html

 

Pretty impressive in any case but if you look in the footnotes Grand Rapids is actually #2.  The (z) footnote for Akron notes that their percentage is less than 0.5 which would make them #1.  I'm guessing why they didn't just list the Akron number was because whatever that number turned up to be, it was well under the margin of error and not to be taken seriously.   

[GRDadof3]

1 hour ago, walker said:

Pretty impressive in any case but if you look in the footnotes Grand Rapids is actually #2.  The (z) footnote for Akron notes that their percentage is less than 0.5 which would make them #1.  I'm guessing why they didn't just list the Akron number was because whatever that number turned up to be, it was well under the margin of error and not to be taken seriously.   

No score, no trophy. DQ! lol. 

[arcturus]

Must be in part because of all those hires promised over at the Switch 'pyramid' data center. /s

[GRDadof3]

3 hours ago, arcturus said:

Must be in part because of all those hires promised over at the Switch 'pyramid' data center. /s

There is a big new apartment complex going in behind those hotels now, just off Broadmoor by that gas station. I'm sure they'll be absorbed. 

But yeah, what a bust that was. Which is weird because I feel like the demand on data centers has to be astronomical now even compared to a few years ago. 

[HomePortSupplyCo]

14 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

First quarter 2021 rental vacancy rates are out and we're at a startling 1.7%, putting us as the lowest in the country for MSA's.

Don't recall if Holland is in the GR MSA, but thought this was interesting...  Not sure what to make of it.  There are apartment complexes going up all over the place here on the Lakeshore. 

Is Holland Township expanding too quickly? Board mulls moratorium on large-scale housing development

https://www.hollandsentinel.com/story/news/politics/government/2021/07/18/holland-township-may-halt-housing-development-9-months/7989465002/

[MJLO]

9 hours ago, GreatLakesPrintShop said:

Don't recall if Holland is in the GR MSA, but thought this was interesting...  Not sure what to make of it.  There are apartment complexes going up all over the place here on the Lakeshore. 

Is Holland Township expanding too quickly? Board mulls moratorium on large-scale housing development

https://www.hollandsentinel.com/story/news/politics/government/2021/07/18/holland-township-may-halt-housing-development-9-months/7989465002/

Yes Ottawa County is included in the GR MSA .   

What's surprising to me is how disparate the growth is between Holland city and Holland Township. 

EDIT: Not sure why it won't let me embed BB code screen shots

Holland TWP 2010: 35,636  2019: 38,690   Growth: 8.8%

Holland City 2010: 33,051 2019: 33,216 Growth: 0.3%

 

Overall the Holland side of Ottawa county is growing slower than the GR suburbs on the east side of the county.   I wonder what the policies are that the city of Holland is struggling to grow and Holland Twp is attracting all the new growth.  Holland city has a density of less than 2,000ppsm, that's hardly a city that's built out.  The 8% growth of Holland Twp is not much to write home about either.  Typically that's considered healthy growth and not hard to manage so I'm not sure why the full reasoning of their concerns(Unless it's to slow the growth of  portion of the resident base that rents vs. owns since they are typically considered less desirable).    Also Holland Township is more racially diverse and struggles with more crime issues than Holland City.  That's another anomaly as it's rare or maybe even unheard of for a suburb to have those qualities over the anchor city.   It would be an interesting study to see what the reason is for the upside down conditions between the two municipalities. 

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/hollandchartertownshipottawacountymichigan,hollandcitymichigan/PST045219

[Khorasaurus1]

51 minutes ago, MJLO said:

Yes Ottawa County is included in the GR MSA .   

What's surprising to me is how disparate the growth is between Holland city and Holland Township. 

EDIT: Not sure why it won't let me embed BB code screen shots

Holland TWP 2010: 35,636  2019: 38,690   Growth: 8.8%

Holland City 2010: 33,051 2019: 33,216 Growth: 0.3%

 

Overall the Holland side of Ottawa county is growing slower than the GR suburbs on the east side of the county.   I wonder what the policies are that the city of Holland is struggling to grow and Holland Twp is attracting all the new growth.  Holland city has a density of less than 2,000ppsm, that's hardly a city that's built out.  The 8% growth of Holland Twp is not much to write home about either.  Typically that's considered healthy growth and not hard to manage so I'm not sure why the full reasoning of their concerns(Unless it's to slow the growth of  portion of the resident base that rents vs. owns since they are typically considered less desirable).    Also Holland Township is more racially diverse and struggles with more crime issues than Holland City.  That's another anomaly as it's rare or maybe even unheard of for a suburb to have those qualities over the anchor city.   It would be an interesting study to see what the reason is for the upside down conditions between the two municipalities. 

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/hollandchartertownshipottawacountymichigan,hollandcitymichigan/PST045219

The vast majority of the undeveloped land in the City of Holland is zoned industrial and located in the airport landing zone (and thus not suitable for residential development even if it was zoned differently).  There are opportunities for redevelopment near downtown, but land is expensive.  The City is scheduled to adopt zoning that will open up its suburban commercial corridors to mixed use redevelopment, so that might help. 

The Township is far from built out, and has a lot of planned and zoned land for residential growth. 

As for the "upside down" demographics, it's very expensive to live near downtown Holland. Much of the more attainably priced housing is north of Lake Macatawa. Hell, Holland is one of the only places I can think of where the downtown killed the mall, not the other way around. 

[MJLO]

57 minutes ago, Khorasaurus1 said:

As for the "upside down" demographics, it's very expensive to live near downtown Holland. Much of the more attainably priced housing is north of Lake Macatawa. Hell, Holland is one of the only places I can think of where the downtown killed the mall, not the other way around. 

I always thought it was the opening of Rivertown Crossings that lead to the downfall of Westshore Mall.

[Khorasaurus1]

14 minutes ago, MJLO said:

I always thought it was the opening of Rivertown Crossings that lead to the downfall of Westshore Mall.

Well now Rivertown Crossings is dying while downtown Holland continues to thrive. But Rivertown probably didn't help Westshore, either. 

[RegalTDP]

1 hour ago, MJLO said:

Also Holland Township is more racially diverse and struggles with more crime issues than Holland City.  That's another anomaly as it's rare or maybe even unheard of for a suburb to have those qualities over the anchor city.   It would be an interesting study to see what the reason is for the upside down conditions between the two municipalities. 

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/hollandchartertownshipottawacountymichigan,hollandcitymichigan/PST045219

Reminds me of the Charleston vs. North Charleston relationship... Like Holland, Charleston has all the waterfront & historic property, higher ed institutions, while North Charleston is more industrial and stuck inland.  That being said, whereas Holland has always been majority white, Charleston had a major gentrification shift that reversed the city's demographics from majority black to majority white, sending its lower income residents to the suburbs. It's left an even more stark disparity between the two cities.

Also how about Ann Arbor vs. Ypsilanti?  I was on another forum (not UP) a few years ago and I saw a poster praising Ann Arbor as a bastion of diversity and culture... Another poster retorted, "All of Ann Arbor's diversity is in Ypsi, LOL."

[MJLO]

21 minutes ago, Khorasaurus1 said:

Well now Rivertown Crossings is dying while downtown Holland continues to thrive. But Rivertown probably didn't help Westshore, either. 

I agree that downtown Holland is thriving though it always felt boutiquey to me and not really having equivalent offerings that would attract the traditional mall crowd. 

[Khorasaurus1]

10 minutes ago, MJLO said:

I agree that downtown Holland is thriving though it always felt boutiquey to me and not really having equivalent offerings that would attract the traditional mall crowd. 

Downtown Holland does have chain clothing retail (Talbot's, Gazelle, etc), but I suppose it isn't quite the same as thriving mall like Woodland in that regard. 

[MJLO]

28 minutes ago, RegalTDP said:

Reminds me of the Charleston vs. North Charleston relationship... Like Holland, Charleston has all the waterfront & historic property, higher ed institutions, while North Charleston is more industrial and stuck inland.  That being said, whereas Holland has always been majority white, Charleston had a major gentrification shift that reversed the city's demographics from majority black to majority white, sending its lower income residents to the suburbs. It's left an even more stark disparity between the two cities.

Also how about Ann Arbor vs. Ypsilanti?  I was on another forum (not UP) a few years ago and I saw a poster praising Ann Arbor as a bastion of diversity and culture... Another poster retorted, "All of Ann Arbor's diversity is in Ypsi, LOL."

Ironically both Holland and Holland Twp are less "traditionally" white than Ann Arbor the bastion of diversity.  Neither are as "white" as one might expect without looking at their racial breakdowns.  No one has ever been able to explain to me what the difference between, "white alone" is vs.  "white alone, not hispanic or latino".    The only thing I can guess is that those of mixed white/latino background can be categorized as white, or kind of not white?  I digress though, when you take out the top line "white alone" portion they are quite a bit more mixed as most cities that have higher latino populations are. 

 

	YPSI	Ann Arbor	Holland Twp	Holland City
Black or African American alone, percent(a)	28.20%	6.80%	2.70%	4.50%
American Indian and Alaska Native alone, percent(a)	0.00%	0.40%	0.20%	0.50%
Asian alone, percent(a)	2.40%	16.90%	10.10%	2.10%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone, percent(a)	0.10%	0.10%	0.00%	0.00%
Two or More Races, percent	3.70%	4.10%	4.30%	4.20%
Hispanic or Latino, percent(b)	4.60%	4.80%	27.70%	24.30%
White alone, not Hispanic or Latino, percent	61.80%	67.50%	57.90%	66.90%
White alone, percent	64.90%	71.10%	71.50%	81.70%

 

[Khorasaurus1]

1 hour ago, MJLO said:

Ironically both Holland and Holland Twp are less "traditionally" white than Ann Arbor the bastion of diversity.  Neither are as "white" as one might expect without looking at their racial breakdowns.  No one has ever been able to explain to me what the difference between, "white alone" is vs.  "white alone, not hispanic or latino".    The only thing I can guess is that those of mixed white/latino background can be categorized as white, or kind of not white?  I digress though, when you take out the top line "white alone" portion they are quite a bit more mixed as most cities that have higher latino populations are. 

 

	YPSI	Ann Arbor	Holland Twp	Holland City
Black or African American alone, percent(a)	28.20%	6.80%	2.70%	4.50%
American Indian and Alaska Native alone, percent(a)	0.00%	0.40%	0.20%	0.50%
Asian alone, percent(a)	2.40%	16.90%	10.10%	2.10%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone, percent(a)	0.10%	0.10%	0.00%	0.00%
Two or More Races, percent	3.70%	4.10%	4.30%	4.20%
Hispanic or Latino, percent(b)	4.60%	4.80%	27.70%	24.30%
White alone, not Hispanic or Latino, percent	61.80%	67.50%	57.90%	66.90%
White alone, percent	64.90%	71.10%	71.50%	81.70%

 

"Hispanic" is usually considered an ethnicity, not a race. The Census generally asks people pick a race (White, Black, Asian, Native, etc) and then asks if the person identifies as Hispanic or not.  Though that does not appear to apply to the chart you posted?

Either way, the Holland area has a very high Hispanic population. 

[walker]

Kellogg has a lot of employees in Grand Rapids.  Not sure what impact this will have if any on Grand Rapids but people in Battle Creek won't be happy:

WOODTV: Kellogg to split into 3, move corporate HQ to Chicago

I was surprised by how their businesses break down.  The snack business is much larger than their cereal business,  Snacks is mostly what they do in Grand Rapids (I'm thinking mostly but not entirely of what used to be Keebler.)  And of course they recently moved their call center to out behind the airport.

Historically when you look at these mega corporation headquarter moves, despite what the say in their PR release, they are usually because some higher up executives want to live in a flashier location.  But in my opinion when you physically move your headquarters of a manufacturing company far away from the manufacturing facilities, it usually doesn't end well.  The executives start focusing on marketing and accounting trickery rather than on making good useful products.  

Edited June 21, 2022 by walker

[joeDowntown]

Although I think it could easily be said that Kellogg and Coca Cola are mostly marketing trickery.  

I know a few people that work at the Kollogg offices they opened 5 or six years ago out by the airport, and they are fully remote now (even though the office is local). I wonder if it’s a good opportunity for companies to consolidate offices and lower overhead. I’m sure bigger cities are good for recruiting talent, and bringing people in for big, centralized meetings. I think Grand Rapids will fare well, but it’ll be interesting to see other companies in smaller cities (or rural areas) do. Union bank is moving from Lake Odessa, Perrigo from Allegan. I could see corporations doing a lot more of this (including leaving cities without direct flights in as companies move to a more hybrid or work from anywhere approach). 

The next couple of years will be interesting. 

Joe

[Guest]

6 hours ago, walker said:

Kellogg has a lot of employees in Grand Rapids.  Not sure what impact this will have if any on Grand Rapids but people in Battle Creek won't be happy:

WOODTV: Kellogg to split into 3, move corporate HQ to Chicago

I was surprised by how their businesses break down.  The snack business is much larger than their cereal business,  Snacks is mostly what they do in Grand Rapids (I'm thinking mostly but not entirely of what used to be Keebler.)  And of course they recently moved their call center to out behind the airport.

Historically when you look at these mega corporation headquarter moves, despite what the say in their PR release, they are usually because some higher up executives want to live in a flashier location.  But in my opinion when you physically move your headquarters of a manufacturing company far away from the manufacturing facilities, it usually doesn't end well.  The executives start focusing on marketing and accounting trickery rather than on making good useful products.  

I don't think it will effect any of the actual production.  It's a lot easier to move a corporate office than an entire manufacturing facility.  I certainly wouldn't think they would move it to Illinois.  Maybe Tennessee or similar.  I was thinking as far as recruiting for me personally,  BC would be a hard sell.  I wish they would have chosen GR and erected a massive pop tart shaped headquarters downtown.

I wonder if anyone at the state was aware of this ahead of time and if there were any discussions of incentives to stay?  Michigan has been losing out on some massive investment lately, like the billion dollar battery plants that chose Ohio.  But hey, guess that's their loss cause now they have to live in Ohio.

[MJLO]

I was wondering if anyone was going to talk about this.  It’s been a poorly kept secret for decades that Kellogg has wanted to dwindle its presence in BC.  Part of me always hoped they would invest more here.  GR is much easier to attract talent to compared to BC, but it’s nowhere near the pull of Chicago. I wonder if there was any opportunity for GR to try and compete for that HQ, or if the state could have done anything more to try and retain that portion.  

[Khorasaurus1]

They are going to keep a significant white collar presence in BC. The new cereal and vegetarian spinoffs will remain HQed in BC, and the snack company will continue to have employees there.

My understanding is that most Kellogg's execs live in Kalamazoo and its suburbs (particularly Texas Township).

 

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Khorasaurus1

[HavingAhoot]

What does Kellogg produce in GR? I see Morning star/Kellogg building off 28th street. Is that it?

[GRDadof3]

3 hours ago, HavingAhoot said:

What does Kellogg produce in GR? I see Morning star/Kellogg building off 28th street. Is that it?

I think they have plants all up and down Roger B Chaffee as well.