Modera Central | 23-Story Residential

[AndyPok1]

Agreed.  Because Orange is blocked, it turns into this weird butterfly effect since the only way to get to 55W is on Pine.  But they don't disable the traffic light when they block off Orange, so there's still only a 20 second or so green signal for Pine coming from Rosalind.  But there's also significantly more pedestrians who also use that green signal, so only 4 or so cars are able to make it during that cycle.  Then it goes back to Red for however long the Orange green cycle is (40-60 I presume?), even though there's only Ped traffic crossing Pine at that point.

I truly think it should be make into a flashing red/stop sign on Pine when they close Orange, but I'm guessing that's too much work or they think that the pedestrians won't be able to figure it out.

[prahaboheme]

The closure of Orange and Church contributes to what another member here describes as the "Memphis-ization" of downtown.  The carnival like atmosphere has become dangerous recently. I know the city is closing these streets for safety concerns, but there has to be another long-term solution that keeps pedestrians and cars moving.

 

[AndyPok1]

Yeah I saw that comment and having never been to Memphis had no clue what it meant.  I don't really know of it being any more or less dangerous in the 3+ years I've lived in DT.  I've never had a concern.

[GTR]

6 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

Yeah I saw that comment and having never been to Memphis had no clue what it meant.  I don't really know of it being any more or less dangerous in the 3+ years I've lived in DT.  I've never had a concern.

Well a few years ago you could live downtown and not hear a gun go off every weekend night. 

[John Hargrove]

I have heard gunfire probably 7 to 10 times over the last few years living in 55 West. I have always assumed it wasn't new, though. On more than one occasion I've seen the victims on the ground with their injuries (20 N Orange bank lot shooting, I-4 underpass shooting, Pine St parking lot shooting).

I don't know what's "normal", but it is troubling.

[JFW657]

I lived in Thornton Park right off of Summerlin on Pine & then on Church for a total of about 15 years from '84 to '99. I used to walk around downtown all hours of the day and night and with the exception of one time, I was never accosted or harassed or witnessed any kind of violence or heard a gunshot.

The closest I ever came was while leaving the 7 Eleven on Summerlin one night, some crazy guy from Miami who was staying in this old three story, wood frame & clapboard daily/weekly rental flop house that used to be on the east side of Summerlin where the real estate office is now, started hollering some crap across the street at me and daring me to come over and do something, etc, etc. I just ignored him and walked back home.

Downtown has changed a lot in the last 10 - 15 years.

Not all of it good.

 

[HankStrong]

Until Orlando resolves its identity crisis, we're going to continue seeing all of these things.

Big city? Sleepy po-dunk town? Major player? Sideline city?

The problem is that Orlando is all over the map when it comes to these things.  The identity crisis makes most of these issues.

[GTR]

On May 17, 2016 at 7:17 AM, HankStrong said:

Until Orlando resolves its identity crisis, we're going to continue seeing all of these things.

Big city? Sleepy po-dunk town? Major player? Sideline city?

The problem is that Orlando is all over the map when it comes to these things.  The identity crisis makes most of these issues.

The worst thing you can be is a sideline city with all of the major drawbacks of a major player. And this is exactly where Orlando is quickly heading. That's why all these anti-NIMBY people wanting anything and everything built are just as bad as the NIMBYs themselves. The goal shouldn't be unrestricted and unbridled growth just to become bigger, the goal should be intelligent growth to become better. We are never going to beat certain cities on just size alone, but we most certainly can beat them when it comes to smart planning and desirability. Unfortunately, smart planning seems to be about as foreign of a concept to Mr. Dyer as natural-colored skin.

Getting back to the topic at hand, having two parking garages right next to each other in this location given the traffic pattern just so some ancient racist buzzards don't have to park with the common folk to shuffle to their club that hasn't been popular since 1980 is anything but intelligent. And curbside dropoff on Central right before a stoplight is even more stupid. I completely understand why that would be challenged by downtown residents and I am actually happy the system worked for once. Like I said in a prior post, any project on this property has always been jeopardized with the U Club's delusional attempt to regain what it used to have. At least with Tradition Towers the benefit was an iconic design (although you have to wonder what tradition the U Club was referring to with that name - racism, antisemitism, misogyny?).

Edited May 18, 2016 by GTR

[AndyPok1]

12 hours ago, GTR said:

Well a few years ago you could live downtown and not hear a gun go off every weekend night. 

Well, now you're just exaggerating for effect.

10 hours ago, castorvx said:

I have heard gunfire probably 7 to 10 times over the last few years living in 55 West. I have always assumed it wasn't new, though. On more than one occasion I've seen the victims on the ground with their injuries (20 N Orange bank lot shooting, I-4 underpass shooting, Pine St parking lot shooting).

I don't know what's "normal", but it is troubling.

Yeah, I've been here since March 2013, and MAYBE can count 5-7 times.  Twice a year for an urban area, most of which are in the parking lots?  That seems pretty normal to me.  Whether it *should* be normal or not is a different social question.

43 minutes ago, GTR said:

Getting back to the topic at hand, having two parking garages right next to each other in this location given the traffic pattern [...] is anything but intelligent.

True statement.

[GTR]

15 minutes ago, AndyPok1 said:

Well, now you're just exaggerating for effect.

That's kind of my MO, but there is some truth to it. I have lived downtown for 10 years know and the last 3-5 years the crowd coming downtown has gradually changed to the type of people you don't want coming downtown.

[Dale]

In the early 90's Candela remarked, "Orlando is gradually building the finest downtown in America."

Emphasis on the 'gradual', I guess.

 

 

[jack]

Regarding the two garages next to each other, a few things need to be considered. One, is it still under debt service. If so, covenants will prohibit the City selling the garage. Two, that garage is one of he most profitable and busiest. They would not sell. Three, they would have to shut it down (see point two) to add onto it or tear it down to make way for this project. As a bonus, the City garage does not have the capacity to house the new residents in this building. Ancient racists buzzards notwithstanding. 

 

Point being, this is the hand we are dealt with. Two garages side by side are irrelevant. The bigger and only issue is the traffic pattern. 

[GTR]

1 hour ago, jack said:

Regarding the two garages next to each other, a few things need to be considered. One, is it still under debt service. If so, covenants will prohibit the City selling the garage. Two, that garage is one of he most profitable and busiest. They would not sell. Three, they would have to shut it down (see point two) to add onto it or tear it down to make way for this project. As a bonus, the City garage does not have the capacity to house the new residents in this building. Ancient racists buzzards notwithstanding. 

 

Point being, this is the hand we are dealt with. Two garages side by side are irrelevant. The bigger and only issue is the traffic pattern. 

Yes some issues would have to be dealt with in order to orchestrate it, but it's nothing that hasn't been done countless times in other cities across the country. 

As far as being irrelevant, I disagree.  Having two parking garages next to each other on a busy two lane street with no middle turn lane is going to create more traffic issues than if you just had one. It's not as big of a deal as the traffic pattern itself, but it certainly is something that will add to the peak hour cluster (on top of being stupid planning). 

[sunshine]

If we want to cater to cars, no streets in Orlando proper will be adequate. Priority should be put on creating bike lane, spread the ideas of alternate transits....Isnt the idea of living downtown is that you don't need a car...live, work, shop at where you live...

Back to Modera central, if I remembered it correctly, I think back then when they were trying to build the traditional towers, there are talks on including the garage into the plan or something about air rights....

 

 

[bchambers]

I totally agree with the traffic problem issue GTR - definitely a huge issue in the downtown area as well as the metro in general.  Maybe planners will get to a place of doing infrastructure development in preparation for the building projects, not as an afterthought! 

[AndyPok1]

1 hour ago, sunshine said:

If we want to cater to cars, no streets in Orlando proper will be adequate. Priority should be put on creating bike lane, spread the ideas of alternate transits....Isnt the idea of living downtown is that you don't need a car...live, work, shop at where you live...

That is the idea... but it simply isn't reality.  Most of the major employers aren't downtown.  I only drive about 3-4 times a week, to work, and then home, and my car sits in the garage the rest of the time because I can walk/bike/uber places.  But cars are a necessity in Orlando unless we can find some super transit to get people to Research Park, Sand Lake, Disney, etc.

[sunshine]

It is like chicken and eggs situations, if we continue to cater to cars because it is deem necessity and reality, this will not force the hand of the local governments to spend their money on transits.... We need offices and more jobs downtown. I will rest my case as this is a thread for modera center.

 

[popsiclebrandon]

A good start would be just fixing the complete mess of a sidewalk on Pine instead of just putting more and more barricades out there. Its becoming an obstacle course.

[Dale]

Not to sidetrack, but this thing is likely to get built now ?

[jack]

23 hours ago, GTR said:

Yes some issues would have to be dealt with in order to orchestrate it, but it's nothing that hasn't been done countless times in other cities across the country. 

As far as being irrelevant, I disagree.  Having two parking garages next to each other on a busy two lane street with no middle turn lane is going to create more traffic issues than if you just had one. It's not as big of a deal as the traffic pattern itself, but it certainly is something that will add to the peak hour cluster (on top of being stupid planning). 

I think we are agreeing. The issue is what happens outside of the garages. 

[GTR]

4 hours ago, bchambers said:

I totally agree with the traffic problem issue GTR - definitely a huge issue in the downtown area as well as the metro in general.  Maybe planners will get to a place of doing infrastructure development in preparation for the building projects, not as an afterthought! 

Well a good starting place would be to stop granting density bonuses for buildings like a Modera just because they incorporate a retail component that 9 times out of 10 will sit 75% vacant for years.

[Jernigan]

Demo permits for site applied for on 6/9

[jrs2]

^^

wow.  movement.

[gibby]

The review comments for the actual building plans were completed on 6/13.  Hopefully they'll resubmit soon and be permitted in the next 3-4 weeks!

[RedStar25]

Surveyors were on site today.